Veeshan's Peak - Non disputable zone

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Elements [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dont think you can have it both ways. Either training and ninja looting are both legit in VP as there will be no GM intervention or they both break the rules and should be enforced equally.

I did not say anything about training. And I'm simply stating that Rogean has already laid down the law regarding ninja looting.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...19&postcount=1

Ninja looting is not a raid dispute. It is an individual basis. If a mob is killed in a non-disputable zone, the group (and thus raid/guild) that is merited the kill has rights to the loot. If they don't grant you permission to loot the corpse, you are violating an individual server rule by ninja looting.

[Handull]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ninja looting is not a raid issue, but a server rule infraction and is dealt with on an individual basis.

Its funny, Rogaens Server Rules post doesn't really mention ninja looting, but it does say:

"3) Global Server Rules

These rules apply to both servers.

Training
Training can be defined as the intentional manipulation of NPC Placement and Aggro in such a way that causes it to attack another player that it wouldn't have otherwise if at it's normal spawn location. The most basic form of this is "dumping" mobs near another player or party and escaping via a form of teleportation or death. Intentional or not, this is against the rules. This rule is not limited to the basic example given, as there are many different forms of training players will use. You take all responsibility for mobs that you aggro. If you are trying to escape from a pack of NPC's but there is another group in your way, do not run through them. Even if your intention is not to train them, it would inevitable cause this and you may be subject to disciplinary. It is recommended that you take the death (Your responsibility for aggroing the mobs) and request a resurrection from nearby players.

If you happen to accidentally train a group of players, please immedietely notify the staff via /petition that you have done so by accident. Apologize to the players in question, and assist them with any recovery needed. If the staff hears about your train before you tell them, intention is no longer an excuse. (Repeated unintentional trains will still result in disciplinary action)."

Then of course we have from the raid rules:

"Raid Rules / FAQ
Non-Disputable Zones
Zones deemed Non-Disputable will have no CSR interaction on raid disputes. We will not respond to or take any action on raid disputes involving these zones. Currently the only zone that this applies to is Veeshan's Peak."

I'm not looking to pull GMs into this, just looking to stir things up with this thread. So now whats the difference between a raid rule and a server rule? thanks!

[Handull]

so training = raid dispute?
kill stealing = server rule?

sounds like this could get confusing quickly

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Handull [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so training = raid dispute?
kill stealing = server rule?

sounds like this could get confusing quickly

I said nothing about training and nothing about kill stealing. Where did you get that from?

[Handull]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said nothing about training and nothing about kill stealing. Where did you get that from?

u didn't, just thinking ahead.

the only reason i think its an interesting matter is because in the rest of the game ninja looting and kill stealing are both punishable. you can't loot a corpse you or your group/guild didn't kill, and you can't kill a mob someone else is already killing.

sounds like VP isn't quite thunderdome (there are no rules), but that a special rule set is used including no to loot stealing but yes to training and kill stealing.

(and there is a thin line between kill stealing and loot stealing, in my opinion. i'm not complaining regardless of the rules in place, just curious what they are since it was brought up)

obviously cheating shouldn't be allowed (boxing, seq, etc)

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Handull [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

u didn't, just thinking ahead.

the only reason i think its an interesting matter is because in the rest of the game ninja looting and kill stealing are both punishable. you can't loot a corpse you or your group/guild didn't kill, and you can't kill a mob someone else is already killing.

sounds like VP isn't quite thunderdome (there are no rules), but that a special rule set is used including no to loot stealing but yes to training and kill stealing.

(and there is a thin line between kill stealing and loot stealing, in my opinion. i'm not complaining regardless of the rules in place, just curious what they are since it was brought up)

obviously cheating shouldn't be allowed (boxing, seq, etc)

The memblur bug and the pathing exploits are... cheating.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The memblur bug and the pathing exploits are... cheating.

Considering that you guys are the ones who first used it in Skyfire . . .

[Handull]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The memblur bug and the pathing exploits are... cheating.

you quote my whole post to comment about something i didn't mention at all? i did say "etc" to cover the other stuff.

is pulling mobs up to that coh spot still legit, or is that an exploit?

no comment on kill stealing?

[Jenni D]

FC got VS.
who saw that coming?
go try VP or forever be 2nd best.

[Autotune]

The memblur thing was found out because of a pull steal and someone decided to try and steal the kill via memblur and having the most dmg done after the memblur on fay.

Turns out raid targets were set to fully heal on memblurs, who knew amirite?

Later, because now the bug is well known (wasn't actually a bug, it was something intentional sort of) people started using it to fuck with TMO kills but not to actually kill it themselves. They couldn't kill it within the "rules" so they went outside the "rules". GMs pretty much just ignored that exploit and turned a blind eye. TMO then got smarter and smarter until the other guilds could no longer reach the dragons to exploit. Well then those other exploiters started crying and bitching because they couldn't exploit and Amelinda stepped in and cried foul play, let the exploiters exploit some more so they will stfu. So a few bad ass TMO spent some nice hours spawning static wurms all over the entrance to straight rape the memblur exploiting douchebags which was hilarious. They tried to cry about that too and Amelinda searched for any reason as to how we were able to spawn all those wurms illegally. Sadly for the exploiting guild, TMO did it legit.

TMO tried a few times to get them to put a stop to the memblur exploit, yet GMs let it slide. However, when it came to the staff having really crappy pathing in VP (Well known since VP first opened and reported several times by TMO and IB/TR), TMO was deemed to be exploiting because dragons would travel through the walls when pulled (depending on the pull locations) and causing them to come solo (which wasn't the cause, the cause was that nothing but named mobs could see thru hide/sneak on pulls yet, Amelinda played live and was smarter than all of us).