Magician epic pet question

[Daldaen]

Wizards definitely beat out Mages.

• Wizard best nuke (SoS) did 2.7k unmodded.
• Wizards got SCFM3 + Allegiant Familiar AAs which increased chance to critical blast 6% each - 12% total
• Wizards got Harvest spell + Harvest of Druzzil + Allegiant Familiar to regain mana.
• Wizards got EP Legs... clicky 2s aggro reduction, PERFECT to click inbetween every single cast to mana-free reduce aggro.
• Wizards got a 20% or 25% mana reduction focus on their Ornate or Elemental Gloves for their biggest nuke (SoS)

• Magiciains best nuke (Bolt) did 1.9k unmodded.
• Magicians didn't get this line, only SCF3 / FoM3 (which Wizards also got in addition to the above line)
• Magicians got nothing (except mod rods, which wizards could use in addition)
• Magicians' equivalent legs summoned mod rods.
• Magicians' equivalent gloves were a 20% or 25% mana reduction focus for their highest level nuke (1.6k, as compared to their highest dmg 1.9k)

The only thing they had going for them DPSwise above wizards was their pets. And they really weren't much to write home about :/. Even in a low DPS environment, where a raid ran a decent period of time, Wizards would outshine Magicians 9/10 times.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kunark hadn't been released yet. So that's what made them great.

Mages and Necromancers were the top DPS classes in the game pre-Kunark (aside from fighting Dragons/Gods, because of the pets being feared away). The necromancer pet in particular was off-the-charts ridiculously powerful during the first 6 months of release, because of being able to dual-wield and drastically improve their attack speed by giving them fine steel daggers. The Level 44 and 49 Mage pets were also extremely strong as well, though, and were nerfed at the same time the Necro pets stopped getting attack speed boosts from weapons. Even after those nerfs, Mages and Necromancers were still the top DPS.

Shortly before Kunark came out when Mage pets became able to dual-wield, then Mages slightly overtook Necros as #1 DPS. In terms of expansion content those classes became far less powerful, though, because melee got immensely better gear and new abilities, whereas the pets became far less powerful in comparison to the power level of monsters and caster damage also became significantly less powerful. Necromancers were rather balanced in the expansion, though, whereas Mages get the short end of the stick...they get some of their power back with the epic, but the Mage epic was THE hardest to get. Even by the end of Velious there were very few Mages with epics, and in Velious melee classes get yet another round of buffs, whereas Mages don't really increase in raw power at all.

[Invoke]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wizards definitely beat out Mages.

• Wizard best nuke (SoS) did 2.7k unmodded.
• Wizards got SCFM3 + Allegiant Familiar AAs which increased chance to critical blast 6% each - 12% total
• Wizards got Harvest spell + Harvest of Druzzil + Allegiant Familiar to regain mana.
• Wizards got EP Legs... clicky 2s aggro reduction, PERFECT to click inbetween every single cast to mana-free reduce aggro.
• Wizards got a 20% or 25% mana reduction focus on their Ornate or Elemental Gloves for their biggest nuke (SoS)

• Magiciains best nuke (Bolt) did 1.9k unmodded.
• Magicians didn't get this line, only SCF3 / FoM3 (which Wizards also got in addition to the above line)
• Magicians got nothing (except mod rods, which wizards could use in addition)
• Magicians' equivalent legs summoned mod rods.
• Magicians' equivalent gloves were a 20% or 25% mana reduction focus for their highest level nuke (1.6k, as compared to their highest dmg 1.9k)

The only thing they had going for them DPSwise above wizards was their pets. And they really weren't much to write home about :/. Even in a low DPS environment, where a raid ran a decent period of time, Wizards would outshine Magicians 9/10 times.

You didn't even mention Pet Canni. IIRC, by the end of PoP some Mages were pushing over 150 mana per tick regen while PCing. In long duration fights this would really push Mage DPS to crazy levels as you could chain nuke, suspend pet and CP, then unsuspend and chain nuke again.

I also dont agree about the PoP pet being nothing to write home about. They pretty much made the Epic pet obsolete. The PoP water pet would BS for somewhere around 300 not to mention if it landed crits. Also the PoP pet weapons that would proc a 150 DD.

Mages were beastly in PoP unless my memory is as poor as my grammar.

[Daldaen]

Pet Canni was GoD, not PoP. And that canni really wasn't that much Mana Regen, something like 5 or so.

[Invoke]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pet Canni was GoD, not PoP.

Pet Canni was Beta-GoD.

[Invoke]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pet Canni was GoD, not PoP. And that canni really wasn't that much Mana Regen, something like 5 or so.

LOL no way. I was using pet canni while farming AAs on shrooms in FG before PoP even came out. It most certainly was more then 5 mana/tick. WAY more. I switched my specialization from evocation to conjuration in Luclin because of how great it became with focus effects and AAs. I think your memory may be worse then mine. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Daldaen]

K what you're referring to is reclaiming a pet via exploiting Reclaim / Focii effects / Specialization.

I was referring to the actual pet canni spell Elemental Siphon

[Invoke]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

K what you're referring to is reclaiming a pet via exploiting Reclaim / Focii effects / Specialization.

I was referring to the actual pet canni spell Elemental Siphon

Yea OK, now I know where you're coming from. That was the bone they threw to mages after pet canni was nerfed. I would agree that the siphon spells were weak and not much of a boost to mage dps. I wouldn't say the pet canni was an exploit. One of the developers back then told mages to "look to your pets" when asked about mana regen. It just got completely out of control.

[Daldaen]

Eh it definitely was an exploit :P. They didn't anticipate that Reclaim Energy would go from being used to get 100% of the mana back from a pet before logging or zoning... to be getting 150% when you factor in Specialization, and extra HP from pet focus and Improved Reclaim. Definitely not intended and eventually fixed.

But that is neither here, nor there. If you are reclaiming your pet mid fight to recover mana, you are losing your only DPS edge over Wizards, and it would have to be one LONNNNG fight for a wizard to OOM after exhausting 2 mod rod charges and both Harvests.

[Nivar Quartz]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mages and Necromancers were the top DPS classes in the game pre-Kunark (aside from fighting Dragons/Gods, because of the pets being feared away). The necromancer pet in particular was off-the-charts ridiculously powerful during the first 6 months of release, because of being able to dual-wield and drastically improve their attack speed by giving them fine steel daggers. The Level 44 and 49 Mage pets were also extremely strong as well, though, and were nerfed at the same time the Necro pets stopped getting attack speed boosts from weapons. Even after those nerfs, Mages and Necromancers were still the top DPS.

Shortly before Kunark came out when Mage pets became able to dual-wield, then Mages slightly overtook Necros as #1 DPS. In terms of expansion content those classes became far less powerful, though, because melee got immensely better gear and new abilities, whereas the pets became far less powerful in comparison to the power level of monsters and caster damage also became significantly less powerful. Necromancers were rather balanced in the expansion, though, whereas Mages get the short end of the stick...they get some of their power back with the epic, but the Mage epic was THE hardest to get. Even by the end of Velious there were very few Mages with epics, and in Velious melee classes get yet another round of buffs, whereas Mages don't really increase in raw power at all.

One nerf would have been ok, it was the 4 other nerf's afterwards that show'd no love for the class, Magicians were considered OP and people like Rhambuk championed Uthgaard to nerf them, so max quad was done away with, it was tuned down so badly that it they just said f it and left it, I cant even remember the other 3 nerfs but each time it was significant and class crippling. I was excited when epic pets were released and the potential but in a parse they don't do much more dmg that a 60 water pet minus the DD stun and insta-cast, nerfed enrage ( this might be a timeline nerf i'm not sure ).

Tears inc : Meanwhile Enchanters can charm pretty much anything again ( even after the so called charm nerf lol ) and solo entire camps like disco which definitely never happened on classic in Kunark or Velious, and not with cute tools and tricks like root-net + coh pulling they just charm a krup and bum-rush the castle, def not classic.