Picking a class for real!

[Elements]

Originally Posted by Rhambuk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thats more of a bad dps issue than a warrior issue. If a wizard/rogue/whatever throws there biggest attack out when the mob is at 98% your gonna get agro and to bitch at the warrior for it is stupid...

Agreed. Another reason id put the proc offhand in the nice to have but not needed category. Hell you could tank with a staff of battle and an inventory full of agro clickies most of the time.

[Splorf22]

I think you are picking bad examples. Sure if you have 20+ L60 toons for Hate/Fear then you're going to roflstomp it and who cares if the enchanter is tanking 90% of the time. Or if you are duo with say a shaman in the crypt, they'll be fine if they have to tank for a bit while getting something slowed. There are only six mobs, and most shamans can solo the camp anyway. So sure, in those cases you could afk and have a beer with your friends and things would still be fine.

But let's move you to a more challenging camp, like the spore king in Sebilis (or even islands 4+ in Sky assuming you have 20ish). Shrooms (or spirocs, etc) have very high MR; you're going to need tash, malo, and multiple attempts to get them slowed. The spore king is all about dps; you'd really like to unleash the rogues as soon as possible. Your healer will be busy keeping the enchanter alive when he gets multiple mez resists/charm breaks. Sure, you can push all the responsibility for threat onto your team. But you'd really prefer to let them do their jobs correctly. Suppose you have solid dps and you are kiling those shrooms every 50 seconds. Your enchanter/shaman are disciplined so they'll wait until they can throw one tash/slow without pulling aggro. Let's say with two proccing weapons they can get stuff slowed in 15 seconds on average; with one it takes 20 (with a Paladin tanking it would take 10 seconds).

Paladin: 10s unslowed, 40s slowed / 75% slow = 20s
Sakuragi: 15s unslowed, 35s slowed / 75% slow = 23.75s (+19%)
Elements: 20s unslowed, 30s slowed / 75% slow = 27.5s (+35%)

Again these are just made-up numbers, and you can certainly cry min-max, but the point is that two proccing weapons are going to give you far more reduction in damage taken by allowing your teammates to do their job than any other slot in terms of HP/AC unless you burn some mallet charges.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you are picking bad examples. Sure if you have 20+ L60 toons for Hate/Fear then you're going to roflstomp it and who cares if the enchanter is tanking 90% of the time. Or if you are duo with say a shaman in the crypt, they'll be fine if they have to tank for a bit while getting something slowed. There are only six mobs, and most shamans can solo the camp anyway. So sure, in those cases you could afk and have a beer with your friends and things would still be fine.

But let's move you to a more challenging camp, like the spore king in Sebilis (or even islands 4+ in Sky assuming you have 20ish). Shrooms (or spirocs, etc) have very high MR; you're going to need tash, malo, and multiple attempts to get them slowed. The spore king is all about dps; you'd really like to unleash the rogues as soon as possible. Your healer will be busy keeping the enchanter alive when he gets multiple mez resists/charm breaks. Sure, you can push all the responsibility for threat onto your team. But you'd really prefer to let them do their jobs correctly. Suppose you have solid dps and you are kiling those shrooms every 50 seconds. Your enchanter/shaman are disciplined so they'll wait until they can throw one tash/slow without pulling aggro. Let's say with two proccing weapons they can get stuff slowed in 15 seconds on average; with one it takes 20 (with a Paladin tanking it would take 10 seconds).

Paladin: 10s unslowed, 40s slowed / 75% slow = 20s
Sakuragi: 15s unslowed, 35s slowed / 75% slow = 23.75s (+19%)
Elements: 20s unslowed, 30s slowed / 75% slow = 27.5s (+35%)

Again these are just made-up numbers, and you can certainly cry min-max, but the point is that two proccing weapons are going to give you far more reduction in damage taken by allowing your teammates to do their job than any other slot in terms of HP/AC unless you burn some mallet charges.

Again I'm not going to argue your points because they are valid I just don't see how they support your premise that off-hand proc weapons are "needed' by warriors. I've done king camp in small groups and like any camp your limited by spawn time. So when we extrapolate that 5s difference in 75% swing speed to the entire respawn time, how much efficiency was actually gained? <1%? And when we start looking at raid targets when you have more than one tank, and a warrior is allowed to build threat for X amount of time before the assist is actually changed to their target, again how much efficiency is gained? Further, your likely going to be topped up between pulls by a CH so did that on average 5s of an extra 75% swing speed on the mob equate to an extra CH? If not, again your not really realizing the extra efficiency. And not to mention this is all assuming you are able to maintain equal dex when not wielding the warrior epic offhand.

So I agree with you that its nice to have, and technically BiS, but not "needed".