DPS: Monk vs. Warrior vs. Rogue vs. Ranger

[Kirdan]

To answer the OP:
It's generally going to be rogue > monk > warrior/ranger. Certain fights favor one class over another, whether it's due to different threat conditions (FD is much better than evade) or different raid strategies (sometimes archery is preferred for dps), but outside of those niche situations, and assuming gear levels are roughly equal, it's rogue > monk > warrior/ranger.

Yes, any class can survive AoW with enough Clerics.

To this guy:
Um, no. Unless you are just saying that anyone can get lucky enough that they never eat a max flurry round? That would be a pretty asinine thing to suggest though. Even max HP defensive warriors (the very best tank for this encounter) can die within a 1s window vs AoW. Remove defensive and it becomes literally impossible to survive a max flurry round. (1154 x 6) + 309 = 7233 dmg in one round where no heals can possibly land between the damage.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Kirdan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To this guy:
Um, no. Unless you are just saying that anyone can get lucky enough that they never eat a max flurry round? That would be a pretty asinine thing to suggest though. Even max HP defensive warriors (the very best tank for this encounter) can die within a 1s window vs AoW. Remove defensive and it becomes literally impossible to survive a max flurry round. (1154 x 6) + 309 = 7233 dmg in one round where no heals can possibly land between the damage.

Again, I didn't say it would be easy or advisable.

Also, why do you think AoW can hit 6x in one attack?

As far as I know, he can only hit 4 times per single attack (Double Attack + 2 Flurries). He does attack fast enough to attack multiple times per second, but a CH chain going faster than 1 second could heal between attacks.

The reason why a Warrior can die in one second is because the CH chain is a 1 second chain, not because AoW is doing 6+ hits in a single attack. This is because AoW can do multiple attacks in a second, which can add up to like 8 hits. You could theoretically heal between those attacks on a CH chain faster than a second.

[Kirdan]

You are incorrect. He can hit 6x on a flurry round (plus a bash for a little extra 7th). That is not 2 rounds in the same second. There is no way to remove that chance of death via a faster chain. Now, if you have a TON of dps and a TON of luck, then sure, maybe you avoid the worst case scenario (and many slightly less worse case scenarios that are also fatal) long enough to kill AoW with a lesser tank, but that is just not reasonably possible.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Kirdan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are incorrect. He can hit 6x on a flurry round (plus a bash for a little extra 7th). That is not 2 rounds in the same second. There is no way to remove that chance of death via a faster chain. Now, if you have a TON of dps and a TON of luck, then sure, maybe you avoid the worst case scenario (and many slightly less worse case scenarios that are also fatal) long enough to kill AoW with a lesser tank, but that is just not reasonably possible.

What's the mechanic for him getting 6 hits? Does he have tripple attack (3 hits + 3 flurry triggers)?

And yes, I agree it's very tough, I never claimed otherwise.

[Kirdan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's the mechanic for him getting 6 hits? Does he have tripple attack (3 hits + 3 flurry triggers)?

And yes, I agree it's very tough, I never claimed otherwise.

I need to revise that 6 up to an 8, but it's still one flurry round. 8 round flurries are very rare but they do happen. 7 more common, 6 even more common. My understanding of the mechanics is that a flurry is up to 2 extra attacks per arm so he gets 0-4 extra swings on top of his 0-4 for a normal quad chance. As you can see, there is absolutely nothing in between the 7 and 8 swing rounds, they are not stacked rounds within the same second - they are single rounds happening instantaneously.

[Tue May 16 16:51:59 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:51:59 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:51:59 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:51:59 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:51:59 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:51:59 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:51:59 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:51:59 2023] The Avatar of War executes a FLURRY of attacks on Bloodraven!
[Tue May 16 16:51:59 2023] The Avatar of War tries to bash YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:51:59 2023] Fapp tries to slash The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:51:59 2023] Fapp slashes The Avatar of War for 5 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:51:59 2023] Deathtoll slashes The Avatar of War for 16 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:51:59 2023] Galbimaru pierces The Avatar of War for 44 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:51:59 2023] Galbimaru tries to pierce The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Vertebreaker pierces The Avatar of War for 15 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Vertebreaker pierces The Avatar of War for 31 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Ratadm tries to pierce The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Ratadm pierces The Avatar of War for 16 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Leker tries to hit The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Meathookk crushes The Avatar of War for 32 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Jabekn tries to hit The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] You try to slash The Avatar of War, but miss!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] You slash The Avatar of War for 37 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Ushiyama crushes The Avatar of War for 12 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Ushiyama tries to crush The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Trooper Jhonev bashes The Avatar of War for 36 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Deathtoll crushes The Avatar of War for 31 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Deathtoll crushes The Avatar of War for 39 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Vertebreaker tries to pierce The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Vertebreaker tries to pierce The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Guard Svatek bashes The Avatar of War for 28 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Jafa crushes The Avatar of War for 53 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Jafa crushes The Avatar of War for 28 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Jafa tries to crush The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Jafa crushes The Avatar of War for 5 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Fapp tries to pierce The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Ushiyama tries to crush The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Meathookk tries to crush The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Meathookk tries to crush The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Vabobn tries to slice The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Vabobn slices The Avatar of War for 14 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Vobanab tries to slice The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Vobanab tries to slice The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Trooper Jhonev hits The Avatar of War for 71 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Trooper Jhonev tries to hit The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Trooper Jhonev hits The Avatar of War for 100 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Galbimaru pierces The Avatar of War for 60 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Galbimaru pierces The Avatar of War for 6 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Ratadm pierces The Avatar of War for 20 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Vertebreaker pierces The Avatar of War for 12 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Vertebreaker pierces The Avatar of War for 20 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Guard Svatek hits The Avatar of War for 26 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Guard Svatek tries to hit The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:00 2023] Galbimaru pierces The Avatar of War for 57 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Ratadm pierces The Avatar of War for 17 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Deathtoll tries to slash The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Ushiyama crushes The Avatar of War for 29 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Faynes crushes The Avatar of War for 48 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Meathookk crushes The Avatar of War for 28 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Deathtoll tries to crush The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Deathtoll tries to crush The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Deathtoll tries to crush The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Deathtoll kicks The Avatar of War for 6 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Meathookk kicks The Avatar of War for 68 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Neehai backstabs The Avatar of War for 120 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Neehai tries to backstab The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] The Avatar of War tries to hit YOU, but YOU parry!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] The Avatar of War executes a FLURRY of attacks on Bloodraven!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Jafa crushes The Avatar of War for 12 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Jafa crushes The Avatar of War for 33 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Jafa crushes The Avatar of War for 15 points of damage.
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] Jafa tries to crush The Avatar of War, but misses!
[Tue May 16 16:52:01 2023] The Avatar of War tries to bash YOU, but YOU parry!

[Kirdan]

It's like you didn't even read, so I'll say it again. Those aren't multiple rounds within 1s, those are single rounds that are happening instantaneously. If they were multiple rounds, there would be combat spam in between them (there is an entire raid of people hitting AoW between every combat round).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Kirdan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's like you didn't even read, so I'll say it again. Those aren't multiple rounds within 1s, those are single rounds that are happening instantaneously. If they were multiple rounds, there would be combat spam in between them (there is an entire raid of people hitting AoW between every combat round).

I did read it.

You can't necessarily guarantee that, unless you know how the messages get ordered, filtered, and sent down to the client code-wise.

It's possible messages within a time period like a second are not strictly ordered, as a small difference between ordering wouldn't affect gameplay.

[bcbrown]

In the log provided, AoW has 7 attacks with a timestamp of 16:51:59, 0 attacks with a timestamp of 16:52:00, and 8 attacks with a timestamp of 16:52:01.

If there's no attacks with a timestamp of 16:52:00, then the delay between rounds must be greater than 1 second. If the delay between rounds is greater than one second, all the attacks within a single second must be within a single round.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the log provided, AoW has 7 attacks with a timestamp of 16:51:59, 0 attacks with a timestamp of 16:52:00, and 8 attacks with a timestamp of 16:52:01.

If there's no attacks with a timestamp of 16:52:00, then the delay between rounds must be greater than 1 second. If the delay between rounds is greater than one second, all the attacks within a single second must be within a single round.

When programming an application thats send down logs to a client, the time stamps and ordering may not be as strict as you think they are.

If all message timestamps get rounded to the nearest second, as a simple example, you lose the actual order of the messages within that second.

This is one example of how you wouldn't see logs inbetween the attacks.

[Kirdan]

If you think the log file ordering is somehow inconsistent with the lines as they happen realtime, then I think the onus is on you to prove that. We see these rounds happen realtime - they are often the cause of unexpected tank deaths. The logs are not lying to us, they tell the same story as our melee combat in chat windows.