DPS: Monk vs. Warrior vs. Rogue vs. Ranger

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lmao

holy mfkin autism

I giggled when I saw him post that bullshit as well

Edit: oh Jesus … he just kept going for 2 more pages

Poor fella has no understanding of game mechanics …

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I giggled when I saw him post that bullshit as well

Edit: oh Jesus … he just kept going for 2 more pages

Poor fella has no understanding of game mechanics …

As usual, Troxx contributes nothing to the thread, while making himself look foolish. Just look at his signature and location. An obvious troll.

Nobody cares that Troxx is pretending to know everything. It doesn't make you look cool.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody cares that DSM is pretending to know everything. It doesn't make you look cool.

FTFY

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

stuff

When a mob has a “round” all strikes hit instantly - the exact same moment. You could have 10,000 clerics all landing a complete heal every millisecond and still die if your tank doesn’t have the hp pool to survive a worst possible round.

Once again you simply do not understand the most basic concepts of EQ.

It is embarrassing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When a mob has a “round” all strikes hit instantly - the exact same moment. You could have 10,000 clerics all landing a complete heal every millisecond and still die if your tank doesn’t have the hp pool to survive a worst possible round.

Once again you simply do not understand the most basic concepts of EQ.

It is embarrassing.

As usual, you make assumptions about other peoples knowledge and attack them. You are embarassing yourself again. Nobody cares that you are pretending to know everything.

We will continue to have a normal conversation about game mechanics, while you can seethe in the corner. You continue to contribute nothing to this forum.

The question is whether or not he does two rounds in quick succession to generate 8-10 hits, or one round. If it's two in quick succession, it may be possible to heal between. Since most CH chains are 1 second in length, I don't know how much testing people have done on CHing in between seconds to test this.

It doesn't matter too much in the long run, but it is interesting to think about. You don't normally need to worry about whether or not rounds can happen in quick succession, as all other mob DPS is much lower, and AoW attacks faster than other mobs.

[Troxx]

It is one round. There is a reason we have always referred to it as “being one rounded”…. And no it doesn’t matter how tight you try to make a chain you can’t land one mid-round. Please tell me you are not literally THIS stupid.

For a mob that quads and can flurry that means a potential of 6 hits (excluding bash/kick) on a round where flurry triggers. Wiki specifically states he can hit up to 6 times and flurry. This is how EQ worked in classic. It worked that way in kunark and now on velious. It is how it continued to work in every single expansion thereafter. This is not the kind of situation that requires the services of Sherlock Holmes man … this is basic EQ game mechanics.

Or should we call the Hardly Boys to help us solve this mystery?

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[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is one round. There is a reason we have always referred to it as “being one rounded”…. And no it doesn’t matter how tight you try to make a chain you can’t land one mid-round. Please tell me you are not literally THIS stupid.

For a mob that quads and can flurry that means a potential of 6 hits (excluding bash/kick) on a round where flurry triggers. Wiki specifically states he can hit up to 6 times and flurry. This is how EQ worked in classic. It worked that way in kunark and now on velious. It is how it continued to work in every single expansion thereafter. This is not the kind of situation that requires the services of Sherlock Holmes man … this is basic EQ game mechanics.

I appreciate the herculean effort it must have taken you to try and write a normal post for once. Sadly it is still infused with nonsense and trolling, but it's an improvement! You may be redeemable.

Your post shows you are making a number of assumptions about how the mechanics work, which means you probably don't have the answers to my specific questions. That is fine, unlike yourself I do not revel in other people's lack of knowledge. Conversations help everybody learn the game better. It doesn't matter who is wrong or right.

Here are the assumptions you are making:

1. The term "one rounded" actually translates to the mechanical truth that he is doing 10 hits simultaneously. This is an assumption because CH chains are generally 1 second long on AoW. If he can do two rounds in one second, the CH chain is unable to handle that scenario, which means you could be taking two rounds within a second instead of one. This term isn't proof of anything.

2. You are assuming the wiki is correct. The flurry page doesn't tell you how many hits flurry actually gives. https://wiki.project1999.com/Flurry_(NPC_Ability)

3. People keep saying he can hit up to 6 times, but myself and Kirdan have logs of him hitting 7-10 times. Where is he getting those extra hits if he can only hit up to 6 times? Are you suggesting he gets 6 hits and flurry gives him 4 more? I haven't seen any code in the EQEMU server that supports this setup. From what I have seen, you can attack up to 3 times via triple attack, and flurry gives 1-2 more hits. This means the mob would be calling the combat round function twice. There was some code that suggested a mob could do x attacks based on a number supplied by the mob, but AoW isn't always hitting 6 times. I'd need to dig deeper to see if the number was random or constant. It doesn't seem like the 6 number is correct based on the variability of how many hits he can do within a second. Now, I am not claiming P99 code is always the same as EQEMU code, but P99 was built from that code. This means it can give insight into possible ways the code was migrated into P99.

4. You assume that P99 works the same as live, which is not always the case.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Alright, looks like I found conclusive enough evidence when delving deeper into my logs:

[Sat May 11 16:51:08 2019] The Avatar of War tries to hit Pwnstarr, but Pwnstarr blocks!
[Sat May 11 16:51:08 2019] The Avatar of War hits Pwnstarr for 299 points of damage.
[Sat May 11 16:51:08 2019] The Avatar of War hits Pwnstarr for 884 points of damage.
[Sat May 11 16:51:08 2019] The Avatar of War tries to hit Pwnstarr, but Pwnstarr dodges!
[Sat May 11 16:51:08 2019] The Avatar of War tries to hit Pwnstarr, but misses!
[Sat May 11 16:51:08 2019] The Avatar of War hits Pwnstarr for 479 points of damage.
[Sat May 11 16:51:08 2019] The Avatar of War hits Pwnstarr for 1154 points of damage.
[Sat May 11 16:51:08 2019] Pwnstarr has been slain by The Avatar of War!
[Sat May 11 16:51:08 2019] The Avatar of War executes a FLURRY of attacks on Pwnstarr's corpse2651!

This shows AoW can hit at least 7 times simultaneously, as the Flurry message is targeting Pwnstarr's corpse. Even if the logs aren't in the exact order, this shows everything happened simultaneously. I was incorrect in my previous thought about how many attacks AoW could do in a single round.

Thank you Kirdan, Jimjam, and Snaggles for having a proper discussion about game mechanics. It's always great to learn something new through discourse.

Unfortunately Croco, Troxx, and Toxigen continue to attack people and bloat threads. Hopefully one day they will stop doing this, or at least keep it to RnF.

[Snaggles]

The little AoW thought experiment was fun but we don’t need to keep this tangent going. I’m an advocate for letting warriors tank but if I was keeping my warrior going would probably get a solid 2h and hope to never raid tank. DPS is a fun path and you need less dkp to perform well.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

… this shows everything happened simultaneously. I was incorrect in my previous thought about how many attacks AoW could do in a single round.

Thanks for admitting you were wrong. I do not say this sarcastically.

And yes a flurry has always been precisely 2 extra attacks. This is how it has worked for NPCs. It is how it worked for players later in the game when AA abilities let them have a chance at a flurry.

As an aside, it is nauseating to have to prove that water is wet, the earth is round … or otherwise prove the truth of well established and well known game mechanics. This game is 25 years old.

To my knowledge no player in this game fully buffed can survive a worst possible AoW round. Of those that can come closest and who can reasonably expect to survive bad rounds (mitigation, dodge/parry/etc) outside of disc … all of them are warriors.

Once Luclin went live and combat agility/stability, natural durability were in game, the dynamic did shift. Even more than better gear, these AAs meant thatwith a tight enough chain you could keep a single warrior up close to forever. It was still at PoP or beyond before AoW was considered reliably knight tankable.

—————

Back on topic: warriors are very solid dps with raid level 2handers and buffs. If they have the opportunity to blow precision disc they really shine.