Class selection guide draft

[Reiker000]

Didn't have a chance to read the entire thread yet but a few thoughts on shaman:

Epic: Should be a 10. It's incredibly easy and honestly I'd rather do the shaman epic than the rogue, even though the reward isn't nearly as nice.

Actions: Should be a 9, if not a 10. It scales as you level, but at 60 there's never a moment where you shouldn't be doing something. If you have mana you cast spells and if you don't have mana you cast torpor/canni. There's always something to be casting, constantly.

Gear: Shaman aren't as gear dependent as melees. Their hp/mana are always in flux while neither is maxed, so your pools don't matter much. Getting more HP means you can more comfortably maintain that hp/mana flux. It's worth noting though that the good shaman items are quite expensive. Some cheap wisdom stuff isn't really going to make much of a difference due to the aforementioned reasons, and the hp gear you'll want like black sapphire jewelry, platinum tiara, heiro cloak, etc. carries a bit of a premium.

Other stuff seems about right, except judging a shaman's raid value is difficult. Of course things like buffs, malo, patch heals, etc. are useful, but velious is a little different. There are fights like Aaryonar that completely depend on your shaman, and fights like Avatar of War where you're better off just boxing a cleric. Satisfied with being tied with monk for skill, considering how much skill goes into FD pulling professionally.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think enchanters are SO gear dependent though, look at Tecmos' shitty gear on the wiki as an example.

LOL, burn.

[Smilkers]

Rogue should def. not be listed on-par with the skill level of Cleric/Druid. Seems like it should be listed in the lowest tier as far as skill is concerned.
Possibly even as low as a 1. Not too much skill is required to move behind a target and spam backstab, or to press sneak and stealth / drag corpses past mobs.

Clerics constantly need to monitor entire group HPs, and cleric chains in raids require precise timing. Clerics can also add even more difficulty to their class when charming an undead pet. Druids are sometimes the only CC in group with roots, and druids need split-second reactions to evac a group if a wipe is imminent. Druids can also increase their difficulty when charming an animal.

edit: I would even nitpick that playing a Druid well requires more skill than playing a Cleric.
Druids have to manage their mana at a much more discretionary level, and we have a lot to do in order to participate strongly in a group.

eg: short term DS rebuffing, multiple resists buffing, 15-minute regen rebuffing, nukes when mana is too high, druid arm-dot whenever possible -- and at times -- filling the primary healer role, while still keeping on top of all the aforementioned duties (or CC'ing).
I have been primary healer and primary CC in groups many, many times. Sometimes while maintaining a pet. Clerics can't touch 'dis. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[MaksimMazor]

There comes some challenge to playin' a rogue. Back when gauntlet pulls worked you could pull off some crazy pulls if you knew what you were doing, one false move to slow your run speed would get you killed. There's some skill and logic involved with evades and controlling aggro on mobs that kill you in seconds. Also the hide/sneak bug that negates your invis if you loot while still showing your name in ( ) and giving no msgs. If you happen to play while high/drunk occasionally you could forget and train your whole group/raid in an instant. You also get to backstab really hard.

_______________________
Gabobrik Jenantik - Assassin

[Estu]

Originally Posted by Vladesch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Druid and wizards should be higher on solo.
Druids especially since they can charm kite till 34. (or beyond if that is their preference)
Quad kiting is hard to beat.

I would rank druid, necro and bard all as 10 for solo. Wizard as 9 because they don't have a lot of options before getting their ae spell.

Have to disagree super-hard here. First, bard solo EXP is far and away the best solo EXP in the game. Doesn't even compare to anything else. An earlier poster said that bard solo EXP should be around 10 and everyone else should be at most 7 or so; this is absolutely justified.

Second, quad kiting is overrated. Charming is much faster EXP than quad kiting because it takes much less mana for what you're getting (two dead mobs). A druid who quad kites for EXP instead of charming animals is taking the easy way out and EXPing slower as a result (the plus side is you can AFK during your long med breaks). This means that any class that can charm effectively will automatically be a better soloer than a wizard.

Basically, solo EXP ranking, based on hours per level (from best to worst), is something like this: bard kiting >>> charming > quad-kiting > pets > root-dot > root/snare-nuke > anything else. (This doesn't list some less common methods of leveling, just the major ones.)


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Unrelated note: I feel like the 25/50/60 rankings need some work. For instance, wizards are shown as 10/8/4 for 25/50/60, which is completely unjustified: they can't even quad-kite until level 29 when they get their AE snare, and they are great at high levels for AE groups (using point blank AEs) and raid nuking. If anything, their scale should be reversed.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think enchanters are SO gear dependent though, look at Tecmos' shitty gear on the wiki as an example.

Hahaha.

I said I wasn't going to read this thread anymore, but I'm glad I came back for this. Lol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Fazlazen]

I'd put shadow knight at 10 for raiding. There is at the moment no better class than a SK for pulling. Whether it is kiting fear or pulling in hate/fear or pulling/training in VP, a SK will always be the best to do it. And for everything that is not hoshkar, nexona or a quadding druushk, sk can tank them np if properly geared.

They are the best raiding char currently.

Monks are too high on the list for raiding. They mostly fill the role of rogues, but dont dps as well.

[theaetatus]

Originally Posted by Fazlazen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd put shadow knight at 10 for raiding. There is at the moment no better class than a SK for pulling. Whether it is kiting fear or pulling in hate/fear or pulling/training in VP, a SK will always be the best to do it. And for everything that is not hoshkar, nexona or a quadding druushk, sk can tank them np if properly geared.

They are the best raiding char currently.

Monks are too high on the list for raiding. They mostly fill the role of rogues, but dont dps as well.

As someone who has played both, I completely disagree. If there are any 55+ warriors in the raid, you don't want the SK tanking anything serious. Sure, they tank the trash well with nice snap aggro but lots of other classes can do that.

As for pulling, monk is better in 90% of situations and also brings double the dps.

[Splorf22]

OK, I'm convinced by a few of these arguments.

Shamans get a 10 on epic and an 8 on actions.

I put wizards as 10/8/4 on power curve because thats their curve for single target nukes. Changed the to 8/10/8 which more reflects their quad kiting ability.

I think wizards and druids as a 7 on solo compared to enchanters/necros at 8 is fine.

I guess I never get to see the great druids in action as I play an Enchanter usually [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I actually think you are shortchanging clerics who can do a bit of CC and stuns as well. But OK, gonna move clerics to 5 and druids to 6 for skill.

SKs: I'm open to suggestions here. I don't even really know how SKs pull other than taunt/cos and fd/send pet. On the raids I've been on Monks are the pullers usually. I've actually been curious to try SK; PM me all your tricks guys [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Fazlazen]

Originally Posted by theaetatus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As someone who has played both, I completely disagree. If there are any 55+ warriors in the raid, you don't want the SK tanking anything serious. Sure, they tank the trash well with nice snap aggro but lots of other classes can do that.

As for pulling, monk is better in 90% of situations and also brings double the dps.

The only zones that require fd pulling on p99 are fear, hate and VP. In fear the only mob you'll be pulling is draco, and with nothing in the zone seeing hide, sks generally do better there.

In hate, Maestro is a single pull for decent sks in a fully popped zone. I have not seen monks do that. Inny is a single pull to zone in provided there are no golems on the way for both sks and monks.

VP, well VP is all about sks, gotta love that hide.

And I think you are right, warriors with defensive do better at tanking than sks, but sks make solid tanks as well, especially at the speed mobs die on p99. I wouldnt take a lvl 55 warrior over a 60 sk on fearing dragons.