Lol, this isn't going to change anything.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by myriverse [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shit ain't that scarce. Don't talk about scarcity when you're gearing your 5th alt with VP loot. "Success" is a mutable thing. If you define being a bastard is success, then that's what it becomes. Don't BS that it has to be that way.

There were live servers with 2-3 times the pop without bastardy.

4 years buddy. Scarcity is a weekly thing. Unless you suggest that all people with loot should quit the server once they are geared?

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not saying it can't happen either, I'm just pointing out that when you guys bring up an agreement that hasn't even lasted a week as proof that shit can work you're being extremely short sighted.

I may have expressed myself poorly. I was just trying to point out that VP became a no training zone only a day after the players decided (unofficially) they were going to stop training in VP. I think the staff was tired of the no CSR stuff in VP, and they want a friendlier raiding environment overall. I think this agreement between the guilds was a catalyst, and that is why training is no longer allowed.

[hatelore]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The opposition to your argument has recently begun to quote him for support. I guess if you're going to have to argue the opposite "socialist" argument, you need to speak to the points they use for support.

Trust me, I'm not saying TMO needs to be the only guild getting every single mob. After this recent blow out, they should share. IMO the top guild is in a position of earned privilage and needs to be responsible in many ways for assuring a fair/fun to play in community. I also think when things are worked out that time is given to take the mobs during "normal play hours". This 4am shit is unhealthy for all of you, and do realize that repop days have more players than just the top guild on trying to take things.

IT WOULD HELP if when TMO or FE/IB decides to hand down one of their mobs (Vox/Naggy/Draco/CT/Inny) that the community doesn't take it as some kind of condescending charity and respond with disrespect and outrage.

Goals for TMO: Share old content
Goals for community: Understand you don't put in as much time (read: don't respond to 4am bat phones). Understand there is limited content. Understand that Velious (which brings mobs most guilds can't kill) would help a lot more for 5 guilds fighting over the same content.

I think TMO would be happy to spend its time banging its head on NTOV progression/farming armor (presuming those mobs are not steam rolled) while the rest killed Vindi, Statue and every single old world mob.

I don't know if the people on the other side of the argument are capable of understanding this is a problem of limited content and the top guild trying to secure best in slot gear it still needs. When the best in slot gear moves to harder targets, the easier ones open up.

Saying "fuck the top guild this sucks" is way easier I guess than contributing to the bugs section/Velious content and actually accepting this concept.

You should probably get out of the mindset that "answering batphones at 4am is classic" or even fuckin sane. For starters.

Also, tmo earned this hate. You live in a fantasy world if you think we all woke up one morning and said "tmo is on top so we shall spite and hate them!!"

Furthermore, you sound like a tmo cheerleader.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I may have expressed myself poorly. I was just trying to point out that VP became a no training zone only a day after the players decided (unofficially) they were going to stop training in VP. I think the staff was tired of the no CSR stuff in VP, and they want a friendlier raiding environment overall. I think this agreement between the guilds was a catalyst, and that is why training is no longer allowed.

That was something that would have been removed when Staff decided pathing was optimal in VP. No part of TMO's wanting it to still be there mattered, Sirken stated that himself. I can see that it was put in the agreement and that's well within reason, but from a staff standpoint it was always based on CSR reasons due to pathing.

I liked training in VP, it was fun to me, but even I realized that it was up to Sirken/Rogean/CSR as to when they deemed pathing was no longer super crappy.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nope. Because you are doing exactly what you complain TMO is doing. You are excluding people from the mix. If you are making a raid agreement it is probably a good idea to include the long-time single most dominant raid guild on the server dontchathink, I mean if not you really don't have a raid agreement at all. Trying to exclude TMO and others inputs just means that your "agreement" won't be respected.

I understand the whole concept was a 2 week solution to increase "PR" and apps, but that agreement has no longevity. Any rational mind can see that.

I apologize. This isn't what I was talking about to begin with. The staff disallowed training in VP when we expressed that we didn't want it to be allowed anymore. They may have been planning this for some time, but I think the agreement that I linked kick-started it.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nirgon aren't you an apostle of true classic? How can you be for variance?

Yes. I'm not for true variance.

Variance is yet another result of this extended time line years of classic/Kunark.

That is to say another PROBLEM that exists because you're stuck on this content so long.

Variance sucks, I hate it. No one likes the level of competition requiring bat phones at 6am.

I wonder if no one was to try to kill the mobs, how long might TMO leave them up before they killed them? I don't think they like answering bat phones at who knows what hour, and I don't think their members that can't make those times like missing them. However, if they don't kill them as soon as possible, the other guilds will within an hour or 2. Competition has brought it to this point.

I talked to Heartbeats for instance. He has come back to the server and is trying to get the Cabilis piece for his epic. It spawned and was killed by Europa within an hour of it spawning. Where's the "fuck Europa" thread over that or "fuck everyone who kills this mob within an hour of it spawning" thread? They got to it first, the end. The peridots thread is another story :P.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That was something that would have been removed when Staff decided pathing was optimal in VP. No part of TMO's wanting it to still be there mattered, Sirken stated that himself. I can see that it was put in the agreement and that's well within reason, but from a staff standpoint it was always based on CSR reasons due to pathing.

I liked training in VP, it was fun to me, but even I realized that it was up to Sirken/Rogean/CSR as to when they deemed pathing was no longer super crappy.

I also think it was brought up to Rogean and he probably talked to Nilbog and Nilly has posted about pathing in VP being updated several times. I imagine after that it was struck down, so I don't doubt that it being part of the agreement that it got noticed by Rogean.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That was something that would have been removed when Staff decided pathing was optimal in VP. No part of TMO's wanting it to still be there mattered, Sirken stated that himself. I can see that it was put in the agreement and that's well within reason, but from a staff standpoint it was always based on CSR reasons due to pathing.

I liked training in VP, it was fun to me, but even I realized that it was up to Sirken/Rogean/CSR as to when they deemed pathing was no longer super crappy.

The pathing is still horrible. They made it a little bit better a while ago but I don't think this was the reason they changed the rules now.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by hatelore [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should probably get out of the mindset that "answering batphones at 4am is classic" or even fuckin sane. For starters.

I'm not sure what hour you guys were killing things on your classic servers (and I mean Kunark mobs in Kunark, not Kunark mobs at the end of Velious). It probably varies.

I don't think 4am bat phones are sane either. I think they are horrible. They are born from competition, and TMO isn't just competitive with itself.

However, I do know other guilds than TMO show up at these times.. just in smaller numbers.

A birdie once told me that a top guild tends to hold a large number of the most dedicated players on a given server though.

Give a classic timeline of vanilla through end of Velious. I think there would be a lot less complaining and anger. Keep blaming each other, though.

[hatelore]

Nirgon, serious question here. Have you ever raided against tmo on blue p1999?