Miscellaneous: The Hole /con messages: Elementals, Fiends, and Rock Golems

[Rygar]

As some may know the Hole is my favorite zone and I'm committed to making it as classic as possible. One of the things that is off on P99 is the consider messages.

A well known fact is a Brell Worshipping Halfling / Dwarf / Gnome will set your starting faction to dubious with Elementals, Flighty Fiends, and Rock Golems.

While it is classic these race / religion combos were not KoS to these types of mobs, the /con message should vary between dubious and scowling.

I'll try and summarize as best I can... see this thread about AggroPC con messages. Essentially these mobs ignored faction standing completely and attacked PCs no matter what. When you invis, they wouldn't see you, but still con scowling.

The Hole should have a wealth of mobs similar to this but not exactly. It is between AggroPC and Caiman type faction (Scowls but doesn't attack).

Essentially, some mobs would con scowling to small race brell rogues when they weren't H/S but not attack, but even when they went to H/S they would still con scowling (but not attack). I don't believe caiman's still scowl if you are h/s or invis, but if they do then it should be exactly like this.

However, these mobs still tracked your MinionsofUnderfoot faction standing, it doesn't mean if you trashed that faction you still wouldn't be non-KoS forever.

Which mobs behaved like this is up for debate, I'll post all the evidence (there is more out there, but figure this to be enough):
Evidence #1:

A level 1 Halfling rogue with Brell Serillis as god can move throughout the
vast majority of the zone without being harmed. Everything will CON Ready
To Attack (even if you sit down in front of them), but only ratmen and
undead will actually kill you.

Evidence #2:

Sorry for highjacking the thread to a new topic, but oddly I was just
about to ask about this. I created a level one halfling rogue,
worshipping Brell, and travelled to The Hole. I got bound by the pool
outside and snuck in.
Much to my alarm, the first elemental warrior I conned was scowling,
ready to attack. Even MORE wierd, when I successfuly sneak/hide, he
STILL cons Scowling! I thought nothing could see through a rogue's
sneak/hide!!?? What's up with this? Do I have to start this process over
with a dwarven rogue and get him to level three to get sneak? Has
anybody here ever actually done this themselves with a halfling rogue?
I'm wondering if it's just Norrathian urban legend all of a sudden.
On the other hand, I got pretty darn close to one of those elemental
warriors, and though he conned scowling, he didn't attack me.

Ok. Nevermind. Read up on it and tried it again. The elementals do con
scowling, but they don't aggro for some reason. THe golems are dubious.
The flighty fiends and Ratmen seem to be KOS but I was able to
hide/sneak right past them.

That's the thing...in the Hole in particular, you will often find things
that scowl through sneak/hide, but do not attack. I believe the only
creature in the Hole that will attack a brell worshipping halfling rogue
who is sneaking and hiding is Master Yael.

Evidence #3:

Faction conning is a bit screwy in The Hole. Some mobs will /con
"scowls", but will not attack you no matter how close you get (if you
/con dubious or better to the elementals at the zone in).

Evidence #4 (note: Early Luclin, but prior to zone revamp):

Level 1 halfling rogues (of Brell!) are more fun, to wander around and take
pics of stuff. You're either non-kos (even though they con 'scowls' they
won't agro) or hide/sneak works.

Evidence #5:

get someone to create a Halfling rogue follower of Brell.Give the halfling
consent to drag and get him to sneak and go in.(Only Brell followers can see
thru sneak and they wont attack).

The nasty things
in the Hole that see through hide/sneak like followers of Brell, so a
Halfling Rogue is not KOS to them.

(I know these messages just say seeing through h/s but don't mention con message as scowling)

Evidence #6:

Make a halfling rogue and you'll have both hide & sneak at level 1. Have
him follow Brell Serilis and he'll be able to wander around almost all of
The Hole WITHOUT hide/sneaking (ratmen and undead are the only KOS critters,
despite getting /con messages from EVERYTHING that you're KOS).

I consider The Hole /conning to be bugged anyway. If they're Ready to
Attack they should attack. They don't, therefore they're bugged.

As mentioned before, The Hole is very buggy when it comes to /con. In that
zone you can pretty much just ignore it altogether. Either you're attacked
or you're not.

In Conclusion:
Most people wrote these /con messages off as a bug, but I think it was a purposeful feature from Verant. TheVision was to keep the world of Norrath on its toes and make people unsure if they are really safe or not, keep the world dangerous to navigate. I think how this 'feature' truly works is the /con message is set to ignore any modifiers, and as such monster illusion / racial / religion / invisibility, but take those factors into consideration when actually deciding to engage in the aggro radius.

Some people claim 'everything' cons scowling but not attack (in terms of elementals, fiends, golems) for brell rogues, but others say 'some things' or 'most things' have this behavior. Another poster broke it further to say elementals + fiends con scowling, but golems con dubious.

I don't know the true answer here, but from my recollection on live it wasn't everything but a mix and match (such as random chance to have this scowl flag). I'll leave those details up to you to decide.

Master Yael you have working perfect (actually sees through h/s and scowls to everyone).

I should clarify, the ratmen and undead should NOT behave in this manner. There are some other specifics to undead ghosts that I am working on and will post in another thread (essentially some ghosts are standard undead, some are set to beta-neutral).

Thank you for your consideration!

[Rygar]

Additional evidence supporting that golems are dubious (kind of makes sense since they are 'constructs' and not elementals), so perhaps summoned mobs (except yael) = agro /con message, golems = actual faction standing message?

http://web.archive.org/web/200203310...ne=99&start=25

Jul 7th 2:50 PM 2001
I have one of the mules that you speak of. he is a halfling rogue that worships brell. He has become so popular that he has actually become a fond character of mine. I perform corpse retrievals for a fee. A fee I will never spend, but a fee just the same. He is even in a guild with a good reputation. I know that zone like the back of my hand, assuming that it is not behind a locked door.

The elementals do not agro on me even when they con "Ready to Attack." The Golems are Dubious. Rat Warriors and the Reverents attack on site.

Other interesting info here on con messages:
http://web.archive.org/web/200203311...art=75&zone=99

Jul 4th 1:25 AM 2000
After hearing rumors that minions of Brell Sirilis may walk unhindered here, I went... at level 7, my reborn enchanter entered the hole with ease. The four elemental warriors right up front conned glowering, but most beyond this point conned threatening. However, carrying only a few foods and waters, i ventured forth and discovered that the KOS elementals (some also warriors, but also crusaders and channelers) simply hated me, but though better of attacking me. Perhaps they were envious of my god's approval (hehe.) I passed them with ease, and drew further in. I came upon a place where I needed a key to enter, but in going down the the ground far below, found entryways into the same building this locked door led to. I wasn't in the building long, though, as I ended up in tunnels deep below ground. Once this area opened up, I saw my first ratman and my first flighty fiend. Assuming perhaps a similiar treatment, I ventured forth and was quickly aggroed upon by both the fiend and the ratman. I died rather swiftly. Also, the rather stationary rock/stone golems strewn about the place were also Glowering. Being 7th season and all, I couldn't see what was about, but I may attempt some day to visit the establishment for a fine coating of loam (which no one can say wouldn't be useful at such a young and tender age.)

Seems to support a 'mix and match' on the elemental cons, and golems being dubious. I believe the 'threatening' he refers to was short hand for 'KoS'. I am doubtful the fiend actually attacked him, but the rat only (the fiend paths so may have looked like attacking near the pool room).

Some other info on that link showing that earth elemental illusion + collaboration conned amiable to some, but scowling to others (would support a 'mix and match' on elementals).

Also mention of necro skeleton illusion able to walk through most areas (assuming they hadn't killed anything yet).