Bard / Monk capabilities

mrG9three · #1 01-31-2018, 12:31 AM

I have yet to make it to end game, and am wondering which of these two classes would have more options/ease from 50-60 .. I have both at 20 right now and while the tool kit the bard has is appealing it's solo style seems difficult .. Anyhow, which would be a greater success at higher level?? Bard or Monk

Pyrion · #2 01-31-2018, 05:07 AM

Monks solo capabilities get weaker with levels since you will need heals for higher level mobs. Together with a shaman you will totally rock though.

Bards are just gods. If you have the impression that bard soloing means just swarming that's totally wrong. My bard never did that. There are so many other options. You can charm kill (like a chanter), fear kite (like an SK but with much better dots) or even aggro kite. If you have a partner with root you can root rott, better than any other class. The higher level bard dots are pretty insane when played with a good instrument.

The only problem with bards is that you need to be very very active. It can wear you out, and this is a serious warning. You need those /stopsong /cast x macros and maybe some more. Swapping instruments and melee weapons can be a pain, but at later levels you probably won't melee much anymore.

XeroKill · #3 01-31-2018, 05:22 AM

Bard 100%

Everything Pyrion said is completely on point and then add to the fact that there are a million Monks in the raid scene and though their DPS stacks up nicely, there can only be so many pullers and pulling is the only other thing they do besides punching. On the other hand, there are NEVER enough Bards to go around. You are infinitely more useful to a group or raid as a bard, and your ability to solo is second only to the top tier solo classes of Enchanters, Necromancers and Shamans, and even then it is comparable with pros and cons to each.

Bards truly are a jack of all trades and master of most.

Legidias · #4 01-31-2018, 09:28 AM

If you have a root partner its great. You can stack about 6 dots (due to server tick) with single target / AE dots going.

But yeah, bard 100% has waaaaaaaay more options than monk.

I would actually somewhat disagree with the monk to bard ratio in raids though. Bards will always be useful in a raid, but there really isnt an "only so many pullers" if you go to the higher end, as big pulls can require ~18 monks to do.

Even in like PoH or PoF, monks perish on a pull pretty often so having a "fresh" monk to pull while previous waits on rez sickness makes the process smoother.

This end game scenario heavily depends on your confidence in splitting / pulling though.

Troxx · #5 01-31-2018, 11:48 AM

Very few classes will level faster and easier than bard even if you refuse to aoe dot kite. From 50-60 I can't think of a single group my monk or bard was in that could match the xp rate of my bard solo.

Monks and bards are simply too different to fairly compare against each other.

Legidias · #6 01-31-2018, 11:56 AM

Yeah, even if kill speed might be slower, a decent bard kite would be 0 downtime resulting in more xp / hour overall. The monk miiight be able to kill a mob faster, but they would probably finish a fight at what, 40%? or lower HP which then takes forever to get back up enough to fight again.

For a bard, you can charm kite till mana nearly gone, then just fear kite until its back up.

Spyder73 · #7 01-31-2018, 01:34 PM

Eh there is a lot of Bard love in this thread but the truth is a Bard is not a min/max class and a Monk is. Necromancers 55+ can almost solo heal a group while simultaneously adding in DPS equivalent to a rogue, yet P99 will pick a rog for their last spot 9 times out of 10.

Unfortunately the Bard is the same. The reason being there are a lot of sh!ty Bard/Necro's and the server has made its mind up about these classes years ago and group think makes people unable to see past this.

The truth is you will have infinitely more ease/options as a Monk. Notice how much of what people are basing their Bard recommendations on are based on the Solo game, that's because any Bard who ever reached 60 did most of it Solo because they were unable to find a group.

Bards add a ton and I find them really fun but they are not a DPS class, they are not a CC class, they are not a healing class, they are not really anything besides group augmentation which asides from Cantina other classes can all do better.

50+ Bards fall apart due to the level restrictions of their songs. Charm stops working, mez stops working, their haste/slows starts to get outpaced from shamans/chanters. its a great class and a lot of fun but to say a Bard has an easier time is just not true. How many bards do you see at cash camps like Fungi King? 0. Its a shaman/chanter/monk/cleric locking it down. How many times do you see 'group seeking Bard' in Seb/HS? Almost none because they can't Feign Death and 1 crit lul resist brings and entire room of monsters to wipe the group plus the fact they can no longer CC any mob over level...52?

The truth of this is also simply in the numbers. How many more Monks are there compared to Bards? There is a reason for this.

citizen1080 · #8 01-31-2018, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyder73 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Eh there is a lot of Bard love in this thread but the truth is a Bard is not a min/max class and a Monk is. Necromancers 55+ can almost solo heal a group while simultaneously adding in DPS equivalent to a rogue, yet P99 will pick a rog for their last spot 9 times out of 10.

Unfortunately the Bard is the same. The reason being there are a lot of sh!ty Bard/Necro's and the server has made its mind up about these classes years ago and group think makes people unable to see past this.

The truth is you will have infinitely more ease/options as a Monk. Notice how much of what people are basing their Bard recommendations on are based on the Solo game, that's because any Bard who ever reached 60 did most of it Solo because they were unable to find a group.

Bards add a ton and I find them really fun but they are not a DPS class, they are not a CC class, they are not a healing class, they are not really anything besides group augmentation which asides from Cantina other classes can all do better.

50+ Bards fall apart due to the level restrictions of their songs. Charm stops working, mez stops working, their haste/slows starts to get outpaced from shamans/chanters. its a great class and a lot of fun but to say a Bard has an easier time is just not true. How many bards do you see at cash camps like Fungi King? 0. Its a shaman/chanter/monk/cleric locking it down. How many times do you see 'group seeking Bard' in Seb/HS? Almost none because they can't Feign Death and 1 crit lul resist brings and entire room of monsters to wipe the group plus the fact they can no longer CC any mob over level...52?

The truth of this is also simply in the numbers. How many more Monks are there compared to Bards? There is a reason for this.

This is 99% false. The ONLY camp that comes to mind that bard is not an ideal pick is King, due to the extremely high mez resists on the shrooms. I have never had an issue getting groups as a bard, they just bring too much utility to a group to be passed up. The only downside to bards is they do not stack well. A group can easily have 2 monks and do well, double bards is shooting yourself in the foot as songs don't stack and there really isn't 6-8 songs that need to be played for a group that won't block one another. An enchanter in the group will somewhat lower your appeal as a bard, but you still bring way more to the group than a monk. I have both at lvl 60 and enjoy both. You really can't go wrong either way. But if you want a class that is always in demand for groups and raids, and can get solo xp faster than any other class in game, Go Bard.

As for why there are more monk than bards, its a much easier class to play sans high end pulling situations like king or raids.

Legidias · #9 01-31-2018, 02:02 PM

How exactly is a monk a min/max class? Niche for sure, but min/max? no. Warriors and rangers can both out dps monks on the raid scene, and both are better tanks as well. Pulling is what theyre good at, but even then, technically SK's can do it better with more health, snares and spells to help.

In seb, xping (~55), I would be in group, pulling, tanking, slowing, hasting, CCing, and mana regening at the same time. From my own perspective and the groups, not needing a dedicated tank / CC and just having a healer / DPS means you kill mobs insanely fast. To say a bard isn't wanted in a group (to the extent of necro being unwanted) is insane.

Bard gives more mana regen than an enchanter at that point, which by itself is already pretty good enough for minimal group needs.

50+ bards are exponentially better due to the variations of songs they have. Group overpulled? charm one mob = 2 CC'd, mez one, and highsun anything else to let group get out in time. One of my favorite strats is to have AE aggro (slow/snare) ready in case of overpull, and use that in conjuction with frontal melee immunity disc. Barring spell casters, this can hold off 25 mobs at once buying valuable time. The vast majority of XP mobs even at 59 are still charmable and mezzable (seb, etc).

Bards are awesome at king camp... You can trio it with a cleric and monk (given everyone is 60 and like thurg+ geared).

There are more monks because monks are easier. You would be a fool to think otherwise. Bards need to be on top of their songs and switch out / know when to apply what. They have to know how to fulfill different roles, be it tank, mana regen, puller, CC'er, etc. Monks have 1.5 panic buttons to save themselves in any situation from death, and are generally only tasked with either pulling or dps.

edit* Also, if you wanna talk min/max, bards where its at. You need bards to max out resists and ATK.

Spyder73 · #10 01-31-2018, 02:17 PM

Warrior/Shaman/Cleric/Enchanter/Rogue/Monk

Please explain where the Bard fits into this group comp which is the min/max group comp that a very high percentage of people aim for.

In no situation is a Bard ideal, Bards are ideal in non-ideal situations. People don't like intentionally forming their group to be non-ideal 50+

I don't want you guys thinking I am saying bards are worthless, they are not and properly played extremely powerful. Problem is 3/4th of the time they are not properly played and a sh!t Bard is worse than just having the group slot blank. Risk/reward is low

You guys are leading this guy to believe the road to being a Bard is easier than it is.