Best tank class (group edition)

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Alleriah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ya Thats one narrow way of looking at it mr blood guard. I was entertained reading what you had to say.. Back to reality.
Now to clear some things up..
How i justify rangers being optimal tanks is this.
1.5 Sec Cast - 10 mana for FU sandwiches to any mob to be #1 on their hate list.
The more reliable that you are at holding that aggro = Faster the Sham/Ench can land the 70%+ slow in so you can literally the enchanter can tank it.

Paladins get a 1.5sec blind and stun. Bards have unlimited free mega-aggro. Sks likewise are aggro magnets on demand. This does not make rangers competitive because they are one of the 4 out of 5 tanks who can do this. It does not make you special in any way other than directly compared to monk/warrior ... and this disparity has already been acknowledged. You're not contributing anything new there.

Originally Posted by Alleriah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Due to the ranger being able to maintain high dps without aggro proc weapons, the mob in turn dies faster which means what.. 1) Less damage being taken which = less heals having to be cast . 2) Faster kill times = Less risk of repops and charm breaks per cycle. 3) More kills = more loot.

This made me laugh. Rangers are not high dps. They are capable but pretty middle of the road. I parse everything. Rangers are mediocre raw dps relative to their level of gearing. With velious weapons they are strong dps ... but so are all melee with that level of gearing.

I'm sorry to report that the only rangers who ever consistently out-dps'd my warrior from 51-60 and ongoing at 60 are the one's rocking ToV weapons compared to my aggro tools still falling in the 9/18 to 12/22 range. With comparable weaponry my warrior has consistently been at worst on the ranger level but generally a step above ranger.

Rangers have a dps advantage over bard/pal/sk.

Now can any ranger do this? No.. If hes rocking some crazy str/dex gear then OBVIOUSLY hes going to get teeth knocked in. But if taken just a little bit of time to gear properly ( No you dont need BiS gear for this ) , you can tank any group content just fine.

Nobody has said rangers can't tank group content. In general, they can do it just fine. Deep down at Paebala camp in DN? SG? High end named? When the going get's rough a ranger tank not kitted out in full velious end-game raid gear will be a liability to the healing crew.

Rangers fall into the 'good enough' range ... which for classic eq is just fine. This thread was about "best" ... not "good enough"

Due to the fact that rangers have a 1.5 second cast 10 mana spell that blows any weapon aggro proc out of the water.. Rangers are best for snap aggro.
SKs/Pallys - Yes.. They have this ability too but will most likely suffer from generating enough "white" hate forcing them to cast shit all the time just to hold the aggro.
When i tank stuff. I cast 1 spell. and i won't lose aggro. You cast a slow and it gets resisted? Ya ill still have aggro. You cast another slow and i just cast another 1.5 second 10 second mana spell as your casting the slow and you wont get hit by trying to reslow.

"Best" for aggro is a pointless argument. To be "best" for the threat part of tanking effectively you just need to always have aggro when you need it - higher than your group mates. On demand bards, paladins, and SKs can do this flawlessly on demand. If any of these 4 classes want it they will have it.

As for casting hurting white damage threat component ... 1.5 second cast time. When using my paladin's 45ac 2hander I can get a spell off between swings with 100% haste and not miss a beat. This includes blind, lowest level stun, and even my heal over time. Between swings I can even tab over to the mezzed target, land a stun/blind, and tab back between swings not missing a beat. Even with my 27/29 and shield and 100% haste, barely missed white damage output.

Why do you think warriors are never wanted in fungi king groups? Theyre not optimal for the situation.. Theyre just almost as bad as monks for snap aggro and they cant pull. Just grab the monk and have 1 less person rolling.

I've received tells from the other side of the world asking if I wanted to come tank king on my warrior. In that scenario, though, they'd rather not have the ranger to similarly have one less person to roll. They'd rather just let the monk tank (who also will "tank" better than rangers when being actively hit. The only reason I'd want a ranger in the king group is for snares ... not for tanking.

Understanding the logic? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're still ignoring the fact that there are 3 other classes with on demand easy aggro that soak damage better than you.

Rangers:
-fun class
-plenty of strong general utility
-not good defensively compared to real tanks
-slightly less good defensively compared to bard tanks
-middle of the pack damage output (below monk/rog/mage/necro/warrior)
-better damage output than bards/knights
-not a lot of defensive spell casting utility
-on demand aggro comparable to 2/3 of the "real tanks" and the other pseudo-tank bard

[Cecily]

Yeah but have you considered:


Class Titles

Level 1-50 Level 51-54 Level 55-59 Level 60 Ranger Pathfinder Outrider Warder Creation Guide

Picking the Right Race

The first thing you have to pick then is your race. Which race you pick will determine the foundation of you character for the rest of your life in Norrath so it is kind of important you pick one you like.
Wood Elves are quite a good race for rangers. They have naturally high agility, and can wear both small and medium armour. They also start with the ability to forage, which can help save a lot of funds at low levels, although all rangers get this skill later in life. Wood Elves also have natural infravision, and start in the tree city of Kelethin.
Half-Elves are limited to medium sized armour. They are very well balanced, and have slightly better starting stats than the wood elf, though they lack some of the natural abilities. They have the highest natural dexterity of any ranger race, and also have infravision. However, the druid part of a ranger is let down with a low natural wisdom. Half Elves start in Surefall Glade near Qeynos.
Human rangers have very balanced stats, across the board. They have the highest natural strength of any ranger race, and all other stats are certainly in an acceptable range. However their natural agility is quite low compared to the other classes. Humans have no night vision, which is perhaps the largest reason that many people decide against playing a Human Ranger. Rangers do however receive an infravision spell at level 30, and an ultravision spell at level 56. Human rangers start in Qeynos.
All of the ranger races level at the same rate, and faction wise are all well received in any town with a neutral or good alignment.
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Spending Your Bonus Points

Rangers have to keep in mind that even though Stamina gives more hit points it is not a huge amount. It is certainly not going to be enough to make any significant difference between life and death; even at higher levels 10 extra points in Stamina only give 20-30 extra hit points. Also, while Agility increases armour class, the amount is very minimal (for reference - at level 38 with 190 points in the Defense skill, a +18 Agility buff raises AC by four points). Rangers are very different to the Shadowknight and Paladin hybrids. Like a Rogue, they are a lightly armoured offensive class, and may wish to focus on this offensive side rather than attempting to buffer a defensive ability they will never match the other hybrids in. With this in mind here are some suggested starting statistics:

• Half Elf: Add 20 Strength.
• Human: Add 15 Strength, 5 Dexterity
• Wood Elf: Add 20 Strength.

Keep in mind that there is not a total consensus on these numbers. If in doubt, find other rangers and ask them what their suggestions are.
(This section needs a realistic/modern update for p1999.)
Experience Statistics

Class experience penalties are no longer in effect on P99 as of 9/21/15. And since none of the races with an experience penalty can play a Ranger, no matter what race you pick, your ranger will not have an experience penalty no matter what.
Religion

Religion does not have a large impact upon the Ranger class. The two choices are Karana or Tunare (except for Wood Elves who must choose Tunare). Picking one will not alienate you from another, although only followers of Tunare can equip the Helm of the Tracker. Choose whichever appeals to you more.
Spells

Alternative Spell List
Level 9

Spell Name Spell Description Era Class Location Mana Endure Fire Fire Resist Buff Abj. Vendor. 20 Flame Lick Fire Based DoT Spell with AC Debuff Evo. Vendor. 10 Glimpse Zoom Vision Div. Vendor. 5 Lull Animal Aggression Range Debuff vs Animals Alt. Vendor. 10 Minor Healing Healing Spell Alt. Vendor. 10 Skin Like Wood AC and Max HP Buff Abj. Vendor. 10 Snare Movement Speed Debuff Alt. Vendor. 15 Level 15

Spell Name Spell Description Era Class Location Mana Burst of Fire Single Target Fire Damage (Max: 15) Evo. Vendor. 15 Camouflage Invisibility Buff (works outdoor only) Div. Vendor. 15 Cure Poison Cures Poison Alt. Vendor. 20 Dance of the Fireflies Summon Temporary Item "Firefly Globe" Con. Vendor. 10 Feet like Cat Agility Buff Alt. Vendor. 40 Grasping Roots Root with Magic Based DD Spell Alt. Vendor. 35 Invoke Lightning AOE Magic Damage (Max: 25) Evo. Vendor. 32 Thistlecoat AC and Damage Shield Buff (self only) Abj. Vendor. 25 Level 22



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Bind Sight Bind Vision with Target Div. Vendor. 15 Endure Cold Cold Resist Buff Vel. Abj. Vendor. 20 Enduring Breath Underwater Breathing Buff Alt. Vendor. 35 Firefist ATK Buff (self only) Vel. Evo. Vendor. 30 Harmony AoE Aggression Debuff Alt. Vendor. 25 Ignite Single Target Fire Damage (Max: 37) Evo. Vendor. 30 Light Healing Healing Spell (Max: 33) Alt. Vendor. 25 Panic Animal Fear Debuff vs Animals Vel. Alt. Vendor. 10 Skin Like Rock AC and Max HP Buff with Healing Spell Abj. Vendor. 60 Ward Summoned Single Target Magic Damage vs Summoned (Max: 41) Evo. Vendor. 30 Level 30



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Barbcoat AC and Damage Shield Buff (self only) Abj. Vendor. 50 Cancel Magic Buff Removal Spell Abj. Vendor. 30 Eyes of the Cat Infravision Buff (self only) Div. Vendor. 35 Invigor Short Duration Endurance Regen Buff Alt. Vendor. 20 Shield of Thistles Damage Shield Buff Abj. Vendor. 40 Stinging Swarm Magic Based DoT Spell Con. Vendor. 65 Strength of Earth Strength Buff Alt. Vendor. 40 Spirit of Wolf Movement Speed Buff Alt. Vendor. 40 Level 39



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Bramblecoat AC and Damage Shield Buff (self only) Abj. Vendor. 75 Call of Sky Enchant Weapon with Stun and Damage proc (self only) Vel. Alt. Vendor. 50 Calm Animal Aggression Range Debuff vs Animals Alt. Vendor. 45 Careless Lightning Magic Based DD Spell Evo. Vendor. 70 Dismiss Summoned Magic Based DD Spell vs Summoned Evo. Vendor. 90 Healing Healing Spell Alt. Vendor. 60 Levitate Levitate Buff Alt. Vendor. 30 See Invisible See invisible players/creatures Alt. Vendor. ? Skin Like Steel AC and Max HP Buff with Healing Spell Abj. Vendor. 100 Level 49



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Call of Flame Fire Based DD Spell Evo. Quest. 125 Ensnaring Roots Root with Magic Based DD Spell Alt. Vendor. 60 Immolate Fire Based DoT Spell with AC Debuff Evo. Vendor. 120 Resist Fire Fire Resist Buff Abj. Vendor. 50 Shield of Brambles Damage Shield Buff Abj. Vendor. 80 Spikecoat Self Only AC and Damage shield Abj. Butcher. 110 Superior Camouflage Invisibility Buff (works both outdoor and indoor) Div. Vendor. 40 Wolf Form Turn into a wolf with Movement Speed and ATK Buff (self only) Alt. Vendor. 60 Level 50



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Call of Earth Long Duration AC and Damage Shield Buff Vel. Alt. NPC Drop. 50 Level 51



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Ensnare Movement Speed Debuff Kun. Alt. Vendor. 35 Jolt Magic Based Hate Reducer Kun. Alt. Firiona Vie. 60 Strength of Nature ATK and Max HP Buff Vel. Abj. Kelethin. 125 Level 52



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Extinguish Fatigue Restore Endurance Kun. Alt. Vendor. 35 Firestrike Fire Based DD Spell Kun. Evo. Vendor. 155 Level 53



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Storm Strength STR Buff Kun. Alt. Vendor. 85 Level 54



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Drones of Doom Magic Based DoT Spell Kun. Con. Vendor. 141 Skin Like Diamond AC and Max HP Buff with Healing Spell Kun. Abj. Vendor. 200 Level 55



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Call of Fire Enchant Weapon with Damage proc (self only) Vel. Alt. NPC Drop. 50 Chloroplast HP Regen Buff Kun. Alt. Vendor. 200 Cinder Jolt Fire Based Hate Reducer Vel. Alt. E. Com. 60 Resist Cold Cold Resist Buff Vel. Abj. Vendor. 50 Level 56



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Chill Sight Ultravision Buff (self only) Kun. Div. Vendor. 75 Greater Wolf Form Turn into a wolf With Movement Speed and ATK Buff (self only) Kun. Alt. Vendor. 90 Level 57



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Greater Healing Healing Spell Kun. Alt. Vendor. 150 Level 58



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Nullify Magic Buff Removal Spell Kun. Abj. Vendor. 50 Shield of Spikes Damage Shield Buff Kun. Abj. Vendor. 100 Level 59



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Calefaction Fire Based DD Spell Kun. Evo. Firiona Vie. 250 Skin Like Nature AC and Max HP and HP Regen Buff with Healing Spell Kun. Evo. Lavastorm. 300 Level 60



Spell NameSpell DescriptionEraClassLocationMana Call of the Predator Group ATK Buff Vel. Alt. NPC Drop. 200 Enveloping Roots Root with Magic Based DD Spell Kun. Alt. Vendor. 80 Thorncoat AC and Damage Shield Buff (self only) Kun. Abj. Vendor. 175 Skills

Combat Skills

Level Trained Skill Cap Until 50 Cap Above 50 1 No 1 Hand Blunt 200 250 1 No 1 Hand Slashing 200 250 1 No 2 Hand Blunt 200 245 1 No 2 Hand Slashing 200 240 1 No Archery 210 240 1 No Bind Wound 100

[Legidias]

Dat BW 100 tho

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sorry to report that the only rangers who ever consistently out-dps'd my warrior from 51-60 and ongoing at 60 are the one's rocking ToV weapons compared to my aggro tools still falling in the 9/18 to 12/22 range. With comparable weaponry my warrior has consistently been at worst on the ranger level but generally a step above ranger.

Rangers were most likely holding back on DPS because they wanted your warrior to keep aggro without wasting mana on Jolt. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is it just me or are you comparing your warrior when you want to talk about DPS, but then when you're talking about holding aggro, you switch to comparing your paladin?

So, to summarize your post:

Snap Aggro whenever they want it:
Ranger: Yes
Paladin: Yes
Warrior: No, unless you're burning clickies in a group

Mobs Die More Quickly, so less incoming damage:
Ranger: Yes
Paladin: No
Warrior: Yes

Got it.

[Legidias]

Ranger raid DPS is entirely based on getting a BFG and using disc to get on dat leaderboard

[YendorLootmonkey]

Just get a group together, and define typical equipment for a level 60 ranger and warrior. Epics? Full HoT armor? No ST/NTOV gear? I don't know... figure the "typical equipment" out for someone you'd find doing standard group content.

Then put the ranger in a balanced group that can heal, slow, DPS, and provide crowd control. Pull mobs and parse, stop when the ranger dies due to lack of healer mana. Measure how much total damage the mobs did to the ranger, how much total damage the mobs did to the rest of the group, and how many mobs they were able to kill.

Swap out with the warrior and run the experiment again. Do again for bard and paladin.

Post results. I'd be interested to see without subjective speculation who the most ideal group tank is. Based on aggro and healing ability I think the paladin wins in this scenario, actually.

[Xaeophi]

Paladins are kinda cool for charm breaks in plane of growth. Pair a paladin up with every ench with a pet. GG.

[enjchanter]

I just cant wait till warriors get double attack, gunna be dope

[gkmarino]

Originally Posted by enjchanter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just cant wait till warriors get double attack, gunna be dope

Yeah really sick of not having double attack at level 60. I guess will have to settle with triple.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rangers were most likely holding back on DPS because they wanted your warrior to keep aggro without wasting mana on Jolt. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, rangers are just mediocre dps. I parse groups. I parse raids. Rangers are just not that good at dps. Great class, but not stellar dps. DPS for ranger is solidly middle of the road.

Is it just me or are you comparing your warrior when you want to talk about DPS, but then when you're talking about holding aggro, you switch to comparing your paladin?

No. Rangers have snap aggro. Warriors do not. My warrior has plenty of 'non-snap' or 'on demand' aggro over time. Rangers do not threaten my warrior's aggro over time but they do have an initial advantage. Ranger threat vs knight/bard threat is a wash. Any of those classes can have it if they want it and all TANK better than rangers.

This isn't a ranger hate thread. I love the ranger class. They just are not good tanks. They are "good enough".