AC issues are starting to be really problematic.

[Rogean]

Eashan's Attack? I dunno you'd have to ask him. I'm too lazy to log into his character.

Eashen's attack? The value would mean nothing to you, they are specific for our system.

[pasi]

The logs don't look too off. Eashen is a high DPS mob, but he doesn't have much HP. If he's absolutely stomping tanks, the problem likely lies with NPCs being able to get haste from their inventory/loot.

AC didn't mean a thing beyond 289 real AC until close to PoP as it should be hardcapped and then switched to softcap w/ weak returns later on. The gear that gave you HP generally gave you enough AC to hit the hardcap/abysmal softcap returns. Hammered Golden Hoop was BiS (w/ Vryinn's obv) for a reason.

Defensive is a thing to prevent damage spikes. Evasive will usually be more effective at reducing your overall damage intake. However, with CHeal chains, you are not worried about your tanks damage intake rather than how vulnerable you are to losing your tank to spikes

With defensive, you can run a 4 second cheal rotation here and have little danger of tank death (would need 3 ripostes).

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Eashan's Attack? I dunno you'd have to ask him. I'm too lazy to log into his character.

Eashen's attack? The value would mean nothing to you, they are specific for our system.

Very good Emperor, very good.

ATK isn't being taken into account, so you're tweaking your own system to match it.

I imagine I'll revisit this when its much too late for changes to be considered. I'd probably suggest being interested in ATK and doing it right from the ground up.

[Rogean]

Atk is being taken into account. The mob defaults to an attack value which then needs to be adjusted via the modifier in the database.

If a mob had no attack then it would be hitting for minimum hit every swing.

You can stop acting like we're ignoring the problem. Our perception of the problem is very much different than your opinion of AHMAWGAWD THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS BROKEN.

Everyone here is trying to act like their a god damn AC Expert. The fact is, NOBODY except the original everquest programmers know how the AC vs Attack code should work. We don't have those formulas. Therefor, no matter how accurate we get it, the system we put in place will be our own system with values that will need to be set to work FOR THAT system. If you suddenly find the source code for eqlive's system AS WELL AS NPC CONTENT FILES TO GO WITH IT, then I'd love to make it perfect! So, Excuse me for getting annoyed that you guys seem to think that these values are well known or something and that it's our code that's broken. You're being insanely ignorant.

Meaningful feedback such as "Soandso mob should be hitting harder or softer, spiking more or less, etc" is useful. "Fix your AC" is NOT.

[Haynar]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Very good Emperor, very good.

ATK isn't being taken into account, so you're tweaking your own system to match it.

I imagine I'll revisit this when its much too late for changes to be considered. I'd probably suggest being interested in ATK and doing it right from the ground up.

There is a baseline attack based on mob level and stats. And we can add to that with additional amounts. It does not translate into same meaning of attack that client use value vs value.

The data for emu does not have specific stats, skills, etc on a per mob basis.

H

[Nirgon]

Whoa hey whoa. I've seen/been told time and again (by players) ATK means nothing here.

I'm not an AC expert. I just dropped some links and asked what his ATK was, you said it wouldn't matter to me... which I took out of context (thousand pardons).

I just don't want to see you guys go to a bunch of trouble and then a piece of evidence arises that undoes everything. Dat's it.

Oh I want it classic. Lemme get that in there too.

Methinks compiling as many logs as exist on the internet helps and this is no simple issue to tackle.

Whoever claims to be an AC expert, must also claim to be an ATK expert... glhf.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, Excuse me for getting annoyed that you guys seem to think that these values are well known or something and that it's our code that's broken. You're being insanely ignorant.

When I do a test where equipping a 40AC shield does not change the distribution of min/interval/max hits, then I think something is broken. What would be really awesome is if we could see some numbers for the % of min/max/interval hits for a few interesting mobs vs 100/150/200/250/300 etc item ac. Say something like L50, L55, L60, L65, and L70 mobs. It shouldn't be too hard to whip up a script to do this: it's just a few for loops; IIRC GMs already have access to the #AC test although I think that only works for mob ac?

[Shiftin]

I feel like we're really ignoring the second part of the original post in that players are hitting for quite a bit less on these mobs than is expected. Would my logs from our Eashen fight be useful in that regard? I can post or email them if so.

I have BIS kunark weapons and the max ATK possible without casted avatar or velious aura of battle items (Tormax quest belt), so there should be pretty direct comparisons you could draw between my damage and damage during velious.

[Haynar]

I have not looked at anything with pc on mob damage. All my ac changes were done with client dmg mitigation.

Played a tank class on live. So that is more my area, than stuff affecting dps on mobs.

H

[Shiftin]

How would you like us to help you (or who) approach that aspect of the testing? Beyond a general feel of "mobs are taking too long to die" I mean.

On Eashen it's less of a problem, but on mobs with a lot more HP, a fight taking 50% longer due to mob mitigation issues is a big deal.

There's only so much a melee DPS can do to impact their outgoing DPS once they have BIS weapons and understand strafing and aggro management. I can barely affect my +ATK outside of choosing VOG or getting Avatar cast to me because its components (Str, weapon skill) are capped. Going into Eashen I was doing the most damage a fully geared Kunark era rogue could do, and i lucked into the lightning claw, so short of getting a heartwood thorn off tunare (not downed with loot until near or after TOV was cleared on live) or the +ATK belt from yelinak's head, i'm doing the same damage a fully geared velious rogue would have done.