Game Mechanics: Rage of Vallon/Rage of Zek compiled information [are they correct?]

[khanable]

Original thread discussing this (made by Sakuragi) found here:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...pic+proc+wrong

I was having a conversation with Vonhammer (Arteker on these forums, hopefully I can get him to post here) and he said that the warrior epic was upgraded in early Luclin. There is considerable evidence that the original proc was an AC/ATK debuff (I mean, the spell text is 'weakened' which certainly doesn't match a +hate proc).

- Sakuragi

I'm still of the belief that the warrior epic procs are not correct for our era.

The evidence in favor of this position:
http://web.archive.org/web/200011101...fstrategy.html

This item was obtained as part of the warrior epic quest. It is one of the two split byproducts of the two handed Jagged Blade of War. The proc does 100 points of direct damage and lowers your targets ATK by 40 and their AC by 11.

http://web.archive.org/web/200208271...&pg=1&sortby=1

*Epic Quest Warrior Weapon*

STR:+10/STA:+15/HP:+30/+5 TO ALL SAVES
EFFECT: Rage of Vallon ( Target debuffer spell that reduces HP/AC/ATK by 100/40/11 for about a 2min period )

http://www.castle-grounds.co.uk/eq/epiclink.htm

The Proc is Fire based, and the effect reduces the targets AC by 12, as well as providing a magic DD of 175 damage. The AC Debuff lasts 3 minutes.

The Blade of Stategy Proc is also Fire based, and is 100DD as well reducing a Mobs ATK by 40 and their AC by 11 for 2 minutes.

http://eqruckus.tripod.com/warrior_epic_quest.htm

Rage of Tallon: +40 Dex, +30 ATK, +12 AC

Rage of Vallon: 100 DD, -40ATK, -11AC

Rage of Zek: 175 pt DD, -12 AC

http://www.levelattack.de/everquest/...ic-detail.html
(german site, note velious images)

Effekt Rage of Zek: magie-based 175 Dmg DD, AC-Debuff.

Effekt Rage of Vallon: 100 Dmg firebased DD, DeBufft den Gegner mit 40 ATK und 11 AC

http://thesteelwarrior.yuku.com/topi...e#.U0S3Nq1dXwM

Blade of Tactics - 1hs, 14/24, +15dex, +30hp, +5vs.cold, +5vs.disease, +5vs.fire, +5vs.magic, +5vs.poison, Effect: Rage of Tallon (clickable +40dex, +30atk, 12ac, 2 minute duration) No Drop, Warrior Only AND Blade of Strategy - 1hs, 14/24, +15sta, +10str, +30hp, +5vs.cold, +5vs.disease, +5vs.fire, +5vs.magic, +5vs.poison, Effect: Rage of Vallon (procs 100 dmg dd - fire based, debuffs 40atk & 11ac, 2 minute duration) No Drop, Warrior Only

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...96611152881513

once upon a time the two hate proc's on the epics also had AC debuffs attatched to them. It seems the effect has gone away but the debuff icon spell remains, though it has no detrimental effects.

http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/hom...8899&start=500

Well, The Blade of Strategy which procs Rage of Vallon back when it was -40 ATK did more to increase warrior surivability then any weapon I have seem them able to use since.However, that was changed to +500 Hate. /Shrug

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...96&postcount=6

I recall a long time ago, the epic proc was a 12ac and other stats debuff (and they changed it to raw hate and DD). So debuffs were always a good choice for agro imo. But it seems that stat debuffs > other kind of debuffs, cause there is this sword that procs a resists debuff and I heard its not that great agro *shrugs*.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...7&postcount=11

The warrior Epic has been changed. I don't see the information on Lucy's, but the Red and 2h proc used to be a Debuff, similiar to Cripple. This was changed (correct me if I'm wrong) about the time that the Blade of Carnage was changed to what it is now- Maybe earlier? Point is, our epic is, as far as I know, the only epic that was ever changed.

http://thesteelwarrior.yuku.com/topi...c#.U0S4o61dXwM

I havent used our epic for a while, but I remember the proc on Blade of Strategy and Jagged blade of zek used to de-buffer the mob you are hitting in addition to the 100DD (or 175DD on 2 hander).

To make sure, I dueled my alt druid again toady. When Blade of Strategy procs, it still leaves a debuffer icon on my alt druid like it used to. BUT it doesnt lower any of the states of my alt druid. I am 100% sure it used to lower some ac and atk.

I am not sure when SOE changed this proc. But the icon does nothing on your opponent now and also makes the proc a "dot" so you cant critical proc with ingenuity AA skill.

->

Just for a little reference. It used to have an AC debuff(I dun think any dex effect). About the same time they added the +hate to it, maybe shortly after, they removed the AC component. Tested with a friend beating on eachother way back when it first happened.

I do not know of a single Velious weapon that had a raw +hate proc on it - it wasn't until the release of Luclin that we ever saw any procs with raw +hate (starting with, likely, the revamp of the shitty blade of carnage). I find it hard to believe that verant changed the warrior epic during late kunark or early velious to have raw +hate, yet kept all other high-end warrior proc weapons as having a stun or debuff to generate hate.

With that said, I think the warrior epic red blade proc was simply an ATK/AC debuff until the release of Luclin and the subsequent change of the BoC.

The evidence against:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/i...98339310477810
feb 2001

Rage of Vallon
Decrease Current Hitpoints by 100 (L1)
Lowers you on the target's hate list by 500

as per the spdat.eff file

This jerk ruins all my fun. Did verant really change this super early (about 3mo after velious)? And we simply didn't see any other raw hate procs until nearly a year later? What in the shit? Can this simply be "wrong"? Perhaps wishful thinking on VI's part? "We want to eventually do this but for now we will leave it"?

Thoughts?
Comments?

Anyone else want to wrack their brain over this? I revisit it every few weeks and drive myself up a wall.

I WILL FIGURE YOU OUT, WARRIOR EPIC PROCS. ::shakes fist::

[Scrubosaur]

The quote on that is correct but just bad language - like the post following the procs that lowered hate had a negative attached eg. -500. If it increased hate it was a positive number eg. 500. But I do remember it being a raw hate proc thus guilds getting a warrior their epic before any other class in the guild.

un 14 2001 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
Golgo
*
95 posts
The point of the proc is to raise hate since warriors had a much harder time to taunt in Kunark post 50. And you're not reading the spdat correctly, for spells that lower you on aggro it says Negative numbers, not positive. For example, Jolt/Cinder Jolt lower your aggro and the spdat says "Lower you on hate list by -500", whereas Rage of Vallon says "Lower you on hate list by 500". It's just bad wording from EqCaster.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Original thread discussing this (made by Sakuragi) found here:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...pic+proc+wrong

- Sakuragi

I'm still of the belief that the warrior epic procs are not correct for our era.

The evidence in favor of this position:
http://web.archive.org/web/200011101...fstrategy.html


http://web.archive.org/web/200208271...&pg=1&sortby=1


http://www.castle-grounds.co.uk/eq/epiclink.htm



http://eqruckus.tripod.com/warrior_epic_quest.htm



http://www.levelattack.de/everquest/...ic-detail.html
(german site, note velious images)



http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...96611152881513


http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/hom...8899&start=500


http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...96&postcount=6


http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...7&postcount=11


I do not know of a single Velious weapon that had a raw +hate proc on it - it wasn't until the release of Luclin that we ever saw any procs with raw +hate (starting with, likely, the revamp of the shitty blade of carnage). I find it hard to believe that verant changed the warrior epic during late kunark or early velious to have raw +hate, yet kept all other high-end warrior proc weapons as having a stun or debuff to generate hate.

With that said, I think the warrior epic red blade proc was simply an ATK/AC debuff until the release of Luclin and the subsequent change of the BoC.

The evidence against:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/i...98339310477810
feb 2001


This jerk ruins all my fun. Did verant really change this super early? And we simply didn't see any other raw hate procs until nearly a year later? What in the shit? Can this simply be "wrong"? Perhaps wishful thinking on VI's part? "We want to eventually do this but for now we will leave it"?

Thoughts?
Comments?

Anyone else want to wrack their brain over this? I revisit it every few weeks and drive myself up a wall.

I WILL FIGURE YOU OUT, WARRIOR EPIC PROCS. ::shakes fist::

u forgot to add u gettin the revamped epic version ratios on epic where mini tweaked aswell.

anyways loraen prety much said it at all. red sword did not become viable agro holder realy till mid late velious, where most raid wars would use sods + wilsapper.
But again here we still get the nerfed stun version wich was implemented in 2004 with stun mitigation issue wich prety much killed the old stun combo.

[khanable]

Originally Posted by Arteker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

u forgot to add u gettin the revamped epic version ratios on epic where mini tweaked aswell.

anyways loraen prety much said it at all. red sword did not become viable agro holder realy till mid late velious, where most raid wars would use sods + wilsapper.
But again here we still get the nerfed stun version wich was implemented in 2004 with stun mitigation issue wich prety much killed the old stun combo.

Could you elaborate on this a little more?

Also, you were the one who originally told Sakuragi about the early Luclin epic upgrade - what else do you recall? Give me some changes that occurred so I can try to track them down in searches?

[Daldaen]

October 2000:

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/show...ht=Rage+vallon

Rage of Vallon
Decrease Current Hitpoints by 100 (L1)
Decrease Attack (ATK) by 50 (L1)
Decrease Armor Class (AC) by 15 (L1)

Rage of Tallon
Increase Dexterity by 40 (L1)
Increase Attack (ATK) by 40 (L1)
Increase Armor Class (AC) by 15 (L1)

Rage of Zek
Decrease Current Hitpoints by 175 (L1)
Decrease Armor Class (AC) by 23 (L1)

[pasi]

My warrior is excited for this change.