Spells: Cinda's Charismatic Carillion (Lower Cap, Add Instrument Modifier)

Aalderon Crystafire · #1 03-19-2018, 06:47 PM

Currently on P99 Cindas has no benefit from using a wind instrument and caps at a whopping +610 faction at level 60 -- based on its description on Allakhazam... which is unfortunately wrong.

Right now on live/test the formula for Cinda's is [(Level+1)x10] x Instrument Modifier and it caps out at +300. This post from 2002 detailing an AAs affect on different songs mentions this +300 cap and I have searched every mention of "bard" and "cinda" from 1999 through 2006/2007 and found nothing to suggest that it was ever nerfed to this cap.

https://web.archive.org/web/20020426...tt/jamfest.php

This would also make sense seeing as Enchanter's final faction spell Collaboration gives +300 faction.

This post is to give folks a chance to provide evidence that Cinda's used to give more faction than this but was later nerfed to its current state on live. I wanted to find proof of this (being a Bard and loving my faction) but unfortunately I could not.

Rygar · #2 03-20-2018, 08:51 AM

I'm willing to help take a look into this, but a bit confused on how P99 is working. Are you saying P99 currently caps at +610 and you believe it should not (unless evidence is found)?

Or are you saying it caps at +610 and should allow an instrument to crank it further?

Or it should cap at 300 without an instrument, but you believe an instrument mod should be allowed to let it go higher (but evidence is needed)?

isidian · #3 03-20-2018, 03:03 PM

Currently p99 does not allow the instrument to modify the effect of Cinda's. This is incorrect. The instrument should modify the effect.

Also, regardless of whether or not an instrument is used, the effect should be capped at +300.

You might note that this will mean for all bards level 29 and above, the effect is a flat rate of +300 whether or not the instrument is used.

Aalderon Crystafire · #4 03-20-2018, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isidian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Currently p99 does not allow the instrument to modify the effect of Cinda's. This is incorrect. The instrument should modify the effect.

Also, regardless of whether or not an instrument is used, the effect should be capped at +300.

You might note that this will mean for all bards level 29 and above, the effect is a flat rate of +300 whether or not the instrument is used.

This.

Rygar · #5 03-20-2018, 10:44 PM

Sorry I'm a bit lost still on what that all means... does this 2003 post provide any evidence to what you're looking for?

What are the different levels of faction?

Quote:

The reason I doubt if these numbers are correct is the use of Cinda's
Charismatic Carillon (bard song). At 62, it's worth a 630 faction adjustment
according to Lucy. That should be non-instrument modified, so, with a 2.0
mod, I should see a 1260 faction mod.

Well, I MQ'd a drop from Sky to a ranger in my guild a week or so ago, and I
couldn't get from dubious to anything above that without using the sneak
from behind trick. Straight faction song didn't get me there - even a 2.4
mod flute didn't help. It's interesting that I CAN get from warmly to ally
with CoV, but, then again, I'm not sure how far into Warmly I already was
(probably 4-5 helm turn ins).

In the scale posted in that newsgroup, he lists a -2800 to 2800 faction table. it shows dubious as -500 to -101. If he can't raise above dubious, then a) there should be no way 610 is possible and b) mentions an instrument still didn't boost above dubious. So at least at that time, this 300 cap was probably in place. I'm not sure if the faction table he mentions is accurate for that timeline.

Are you suggesting this 300 cap to the song was an out of era thing? And P99 should potentially allow instrument mod and ignore the cap completely?

Rygar · #6 03-21-2018, 12:04 AM

2000 post claiming song only boosts you equivalent of 1 step, basically going borderline KOS to non-KoS. No mention of instruments or crazy jumps in faction (kinda weak evidence admittedly, no levels stated on the experienced bard responses).

Bard Question: Charismatic Carillion

Aalderon Crystafire · #7 03-21-2018, 12:17 AM

Those faction ranges aren't totally accurate... but Dubious is enough so that his story makes it all the more obvious that Cindas was always capped at +300 faction.

Just facts · #8 03-21-2018, 02:37 PM

Apprehensive to Amiable with this song is classic, how many points that is, no clue

Rygar · #9 03-21-2018, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just facts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Apprehensive to Amiable with this song is classic, how many points that is, no clue

That is like 200 points according to some scales, so I don't think anyone is disputing that.

I believe with the formula (with no cap) + instrument mod, the 1200 gain would boost you from Apprehensive to Ally. Part of me feels such gains would have been boasted and easily documented, but I will continue to look for a smoking gun.

Just facts · #10 03-21-2018, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is like 200 points according to some scales, so I don't think anyone is disputing that.

I believe with the formula (with no cap) + instrument mod, the 1200 gain would boost you from Apprehensive to Ally. Part of me feels such gains would have been boasted and easily documented, but I will continue to look for a smoking gun.

there are two realy good sites for this info but they contain "to much" info that would nerf bards hard and I realy don't want every bard on the server to hate me..