Miscellaneous: Pre-revamp Alchemy (ie, alchemy before Feb 2000 patch)

[Dolalin]

For Green 2.0.

I have come across a few sources now that detail how Alchemy worked before the 2/17/2000 revamp patch. Spoiler: it was lame. But classic.

Recipes and Trivials for Old Alchemy

1) In-era October 1999 website listing recipes:

https://web.archive.org/web/19990915.../alchemy1.html

2) EQForge "Old Alchemy" section from May 2000 with a comprehensive list:

http://web.archive.org/web/200006190...oldalchemy.htm

3) This thread by Ricky Bobby on the class forums has the recipes from the Prima guide along with difficulty and Alla links (I edited out the ones that don't appear in the above links):

Diff - Results - Ingredients

1 - Potion of Somber Origins - Rat Ears, Alkanet Root (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2565) (Shares effect with Charming Deceit: classic bug)

6 - Potion of Charming Deceit - Undead Froglok Tounge, Mugwart (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2513)

11 - Potion of Troll’s Essence - Faerie Wing, Yebamante (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2571)

16 - Potion of Spurn Affliction - Zombie Skin, Reucoat’s (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2567)

21 - Potion of Wolves Blood - High Quality Wolf Skin, Sticklewort (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=60056)

26 - Potion of Frosty Insurgency - Polar Bear Skin, Bistort (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2519)

31 - Potion of Gorging Toxin - Giant Wasp Venom Sac, Boneset (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2521)

31 - Potion of Fleeting Languor - White Wolf Skin, Burdock Root (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=60711)

36 - Potion Skin of Ro - Fire Drake Scale, Vox’s Dust (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2564)

41 - Potion of Gnomish Boils - Bat Fur, Eyebright (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2520)

46 - Potion of Vox’s Vitality - Froglok Leg, Sea Spirit (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2575)

51 - Potion Soul of the Incorporeal - Aviak Feathers, Stinging Nettle (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2566)

56 - Potion of Undead’s Recourse - Warbone Chips, Damiana (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2572)

61 - Potion of Gulon’s Impunity - Lightstone, Figwort (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=56183)

66 - Potion of Copal’s Demise - Evil Eye EyeStalk, Horehound (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=2516)

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=228002

Broken Mechanics of Old Alchemy

Now, Alchemy was famously broken for awhile. This was for two reasons:

1) Because you could not train it until 25, which would give it 25pts to start off with (since that's how training skills for the first time works). But trade skills were hard coded not to be trainable above 21. So you could not put a point into Alchemy: everyone was stuck at 0 skill.

2) Since you were stuck at 0 skill, none of your tradeskill combines would give skillups.

3) (Also, anyone could do Alchemy combines, not just Shamans)

Source 1:

Aside from the potions, Alchemy is broken for the basic reason that you
*can't train* the skill. It's permanently stuck at zero due to a bug (trade
skills can't be trained past 21- and alchemy is obtained at 25, which means
if you could put a point in it, you'd train it past the limit. Ergo, no one
can make the skill go up.)

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....Y/m0iTLLcsmbQJ

Source 2:

bmcq...@verant.com (Brad McQuaid) wrote in
<384748B0...@verant.com>:
>It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved
>(i.e. more products, better products), but it works fine.

No, it does not work.

1) You can't train in the skill at your guildmaster.
2) You don't gain skill improves when you make potions.
3) Any class can do it, not just shamen.
4) The product is absolutely, totally, useless for the amount of work
required. Nobody in the entire game uses this skill.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....Y/Dp_Qo1DJzmAJ

And for completeness, here is the thread where Brad McQuaid finally admits it's broken and needs to be fixed:

On Sat, 04 Dec 1999 09:42:19 GMT, Brad McQuaid <bmcquaid@verant.com>
wrote:

>> It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved (i.e.
>> more products, better products), but it works fine.

Actually, I'm wrong. We were testing it internally wrong, and it
appeared to
work. After investigating further and talking to many shamans in-game,
it was clear it didn't, and we made a change to code today (which should
be up on the test server soon). Once the fix is tested and goes live
(perhaps 2 weeks or so), shaman should get the alchemy skill at level
25, be able to train in it, and be able to raise their skill by making
potions. We are still not happy with the overall usefulness vs. cost of
most potions that one can make, but at least it will work.

I apologize for this and for the fact that it took so long to be
recognized.

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/al...PhY/discussion

Alchemy skill was made trainable finally in the Dec 8th 1999 patch. This solved the problem with the skillups and 0 skill, but it was still lame.

December 9th, 2:00pm
--------------------

On the patch message yesterday, we forgot to mention that Shamans may
now train in Alchemy.

- The EverQuest Team

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....Y/GXVqbCXDQvsJ

So getting Alchemy to be fully classic for Green 2.0 would entail:

1) Implementing the above recipe and trivial list
2) Disabling training and skillups for Alchemy at guild masters
3) Disabling class restriction on medicine bag
4) Re-enabling them in December 1999 era
5) Moving back to new Alchemy in February 2000 era and re-enabling class restriction on medicine bag.

[Dolalin]

For merchant availability of the herbal ingredients I found the following, along with an indication of pricing:

Well after looking more and more into Alchemy, I finally made the rugged
trip to Halas.....blah....
Here's what I found in my research:

1. About 15 different Recipes for useful alchemical potions.

2. Half of the components needed could be easily bought from the vendor in
Halas, whereas the other half are not too uncommon items you can get from
killing mobs.

3. The most useless (combat-wise) is the potion that cures the common
drunk. A simple and cheap recipe that makes a good novelty item and
possibly good for improving skill (if it gets implemented)

4. You jump from a potion that costs about 3sp to make to the next cheapest
ingredient, which ran me about 8pp, then 13pp and so on to around 110pp for
ONE ingredient!!! Ok, so we are getting to be into the financial category
of jewelcraft here.

5. The potions that you make, are pretty much like spells that can be cast
by various classes.

6. The insane amount of money that it would cost to make these potions with
temporary, semi-useful buffs, is just insane.....

7. Alchemy needs a LOT LOT of work if it's ever going to be remotely
useful... Work on the pricing, availability, variety, maybe even give it to
other classes as well.... I dunno, but it NEEDS WORK.

Why it's pretty useless now:

So I can drop 20pp per try into a water breathing potion..... If I was
heading to Kedge and didn't fail 3 or 4 times, it would make a very useful
backup for me. So what about spending 18pp on a potion that ups my fire
resistance? (Or giving an auction to have someone cast it on me for 1pp)

All the potions that I found (now giving the benefit of the doubt, I was not
able to check duration or full effect, but I highly doubt that I am off in
my assumption) were a way to carry a spell with you anywhere you go that
cost you about 100 times the amount you could pay a PC to cast buffs on you
for.

This would be much different if there was a gate potion, but what would the
ingredients cost? 300pp?? Sure if it was cheap, people would be loading up
on gate potions and heading into lower guk.... but look.. just kill me and
I'll keep my 300pp per attempt and put that towards something I can fight
with to keep me from needing to gate..

Ahh well.. my two cents..

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....Y/3gJJSCfkXxUJ

I also found an alchemy ingredients location guide from the old EQ Traders before it was EQ Traders, will add it in a bit.

[Dolalin]

Alchemy - by Sharanna (Veeshan Server)

The elder shaman (level 25 or above) has the ability, if he/she cares to exercise it, to make many magical potions. While the skill is still new to the lands, and hence prone to various quirks and such, there is high hope for it. Each potion requires that the shaman mix two or more items in a medicine bag. A legendary shaman by the name of Jonas has had 5 volumes of his Letters published in certain spots, that outlines the ingredients needed for each potion. These letters are generally available in the same cities as carry the medicine bag and some of the needed herbs. Many of the components needed for this skill, however, must be scavenged from creatures in the wilds.

Shamen who are interested in additional information, including "recipes" are encouraged to visit the Shaman's Crucible site

https://web.archive.org/web/19991011...n/alchemy.html

Alchemy Trade Supplies

Grobb

various herbs, medicine bag - Grabah (Shaman's Guild)
medicine bag, Letters of Jonas (volumes 1-5) - Zumzal (Shaman's Guild)


Halas

various herbs, medicine bag- Dargon (Shaman's guild)
medicine bag, Letters of Jonas (volumes 1-5) - Holana O'Leary (Yee Majik)
Kithicor Forest

balm leaves, elf leaf, larkspur, dragonwort - Elsbyth (-768. 3081)



Oggok

various herbs, medicine bag- Garakbar (unlabeled room with skull floating in the middle of it)
medicine bag, Letters of Jonas (volumes 1-5) - Rora Dirtstamp (unlabeled room with skull floating in the middle of it)
Shamen who are interested in additional information, including "recipes" are encouraged to visit the Shaman's Crucible site

http://web.archive.org/web/199910111...n/alchemy.html