Stop the Socking

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by LizardNecro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's the objection to repops being full FFA?

From Class R this means their rotation will move slower. However on the upturn bigger class R guilds can go for the rare-epic targets (CT/Inny/Trak/VS), and get some of them. Medium sized class R guilds will also actually have a shot at FFA targets, whereas currently they may not.

From Class C this means they will not have their guaranteed 2 Class C mobs waiting for them when they get out of VP. However it also means they get more competition and they are never barred from trying for a Trak or VS cause it's locked to Class R.

[Komodon]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

my final thoughts: it's admirable R will look out for each other in the way they do

but when it comes to working with C, you guys really need to stop worrying about what will benefit them and what will benefit you and instead focus on 'what is fair to both parties that benefits us all?'

if you guys came to the table keeping the division of mobs the same and had some ideas about variance reduction/removal of overlap, without trying to get something more out of it, you might actually get somewhere.

also Chest I'm not just directing all these posts at just you - I know you've conceded C should have their fair stake, but R as a whole isn't on that level yet

This is why i put you in that vent discussion btw. Well said [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[wwoneo]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From Class R this means their rotation will move slower. However on the upturn bigger class R guilds can go for the rare-epic targets (CT/Inny/Trak/VS), and get some of them. Medium sized class R guilds will also actually have a shot at FFA targets, whereas currently they may not.

From Class C this means they will not have their guaranteed 2 Class C mobs waiting for them when they get out of VP. However it also means they get more competition and they are never barred from trying for a Trak or VS cause it's locked to Class R.

What would be the objection to making all raid mobs FFA repops? I'm talking about taking out all rotations and revamping raid bosses so they always all spawn at the same time. Basically, only earthquake spawns!

[Argh]

Originally Posted by LizardNecro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's the objection to repops being full FFA?

I would imagine the main objection to full FFA repops is that it would turn every earthquake into a clusterfuck of FFA disputes.

When the staff realizes that every time they set off an earthquake, a couple raid disputes follow, they will just stop setting them off and we won't have earthquakes anymore.

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From Class R this means their rotation will move slower.

Earthquakes becoming full ffa would have to hinge on moving to C/R cycles instead of C/R/FFA. This would speed up the rotation.

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Class C would lose mobs in the transaction.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Komodon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually it does, because somewhat better is still a lot better then maintaining the current state. It's also that simplified/defeatist stance which continually keeps in-game poopsocks alive and well, and why we'll never be able to convince the GM's to lower variance down to a level more favorable for everybody.

You are just incapable of seeing that due to the fact that it still won't do anything to serve your own ultimate agenda....separation from having to compete against Class C guilds in hopes of getting more of the merbs you want.

But like i guessed, nothing new to see here.

I have a proposal, my platform hasn't changed. If you got on board IB would probably be the only guild that hasn't spoken up. If we all agreed we might be able to reduce the variance overall.

C/R rotation. FFA on repops. Bag limit of 2 on repops. Class C maintains exclusive rights to VP, and VP kills obviously don't count towards bag limits. I would say that class R would entirely support this plan and it would completely eliminate socking, not just modify the current rules which would continue the current style of raiding that's been prevalent for almost 5 years.

[Komodon]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a proposal, my platform hasn't changed. If you got on board IB would probably be the only guild that hasn't spoken up. If we all agreed we might be able to reduce the variance overall.

C/R rotation. FFA on repops. Bag limit of 2 on repops. Class C maintains exclusive rights to VP, and VP kills obviously don't count towards bag limits. I would say that class R would entirely support this plan and it would completely eliminate socking, not just modify the current rules which would continue the current style of raiding that's been prevalent for almost 5 years.

Again, nothing new to see there.

But hey, if that helps Daldaen better understand why he's wasting his time/efforts here, at least somebody can walk away from this 60 page thread a winner.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

C/R rotation. FFA on repops. Bag limit of 2 on repops. Class C maintains exclusive rights to VP, and VP kills obviously don't count towards bag limits.

Not happening. Once you get the idea of that ever coming to fruition out of your head, then you'll be in a better place to come up with a new proposal that we can actually discuss.

[Juryiel]

Originally Posted by Komodon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually it does, because somewhat better is still a lot better then maintaining the current state. It's also that simplified/defeatist stance which continually keeps in-game poopsocks alive and well, and why we'll never be able to convince the GM's to lower variance down to a level more favorable for everybody.

You are just incapable of seeing that due to the fact that it still won't do anything to serve your own ultimate agenda....separation from having to compete against Class C guilds in hopes of getting more of the merbs you want.

But like i guessed, nothing new to see here.

The issue with this is that there is typically a lot of momentum required to make even the smallest change, so it's sort of wasteful to try to build up that momentum toward a change that someone feels will only be a band-aid. Would decreased variance somewhat alleviate some of the issues in raiding? Maybe. But in and of itself, for some people it may not be a worthy end-goal toward which to direct momentum.

At any given point, it always seems that the status quo will not be changed, but inevitably, with enough people putting momentum, it does get changed, in spite of what those in control may have said. For some people, it's probably worth maintaining the raid change momentum behind the "R/C , repops FFA" idea at the risk of getting nothing, since the thing being risked may not really be all that important and may not at all come close to the type of raiding / competition they envision. Directing that momentum to make a largely inconsequential change in their eyes is wasteful since it is hard to build that momentum up in the first place.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not happening. Once you get the idea of that ever coming to fruition out of your head, then you'll be in a better place to come up with a new proposal that we can actually discuss.

IIRC we had this conversation in RNF and you were OK with it as long as the bag limit was removed? Is that a particularly important provision or have you changed your stance?