Open petition to reduce variance to +/- 4 hours

[fiveeauxfour]

Originally Posted by Xaanka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

have u considerd red

is that hitler in your sig?

[ArumTP]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But there are enough Velious targets that no matter how great Vulak's loot is, eventually, Rampage is going to want to kill Tormax, or AoW, or ST. Right now Rampage pretty much gets whatever they want, as I understand it, because spawns are so spread out.

Rampage does not get whatever they want. Asgard-Forsaken is literally going after the same mobs as them and succeeds.

Lets take a hypothetical. Lets assume that Rampage's number 1 target is Vulak. With no variance, Rampage is going to sit their asses in NToV until Vulak is dead. They'll either be contesting targets, or going after their own dragons, but they're not gonna leave and go after Tormax because someone else will take Vulak while they're gone.

Vulak takes all of maybe 7 min to kill. It takes more time for a lot of guilds just to mobilize for anything. They will sweep vulak, and move to tormax on their other 60's parked at the ZL.

That means another guild can kill Tormax. Maybe FAT, maybe BDA, (who is gimpatron btw?). It also leaves Zland and Kland open for whoever wants them. You want FAT in ST? Make Rampage choose between NToV and Klandicar. Right now they don't have to--they can go for both pretty easily because chances are nothing else will be popped or late in window in the event of a kland pop.

That is the beauty of the current system. No guild has to choose one or the other any guild with the right dedication and luck can have it all. Just because you're in a guild that apparently does nothing, doesn't mean that rampage is getting every target.

No variance also means that all of the bigger raid guilds are in Velious and ignoring Gorenaire, Trakanon, VS and such and will let smaller guilds take a shot at these.

This is already true with the current system. I really don't think you raid here and are trying to make changes to a system you know nothing about. Vindi is up every 8 hours or so for anyone that wants him. I've seen velkator up for 2 days, woushi gorenaire and talendor up all day. I will say however I think it a lack of any efforts if smaller guilds aren't getting any of these low tier targets. Literally last sev, only asgard and forsaken even bothered to show up.

[Fanguru]

The arguement against reducing variance to +/- 4 hours is that big guilds would camp each target for their short window, then move on to the next, non-overlapping window.

However, with less variance and a reset, all mobs would be up on the same day (ideally a Saturday).
Windows would overlap heavily, making major guilds prioritize targets and mobs would be up for other guilds.
While Rampage and FA rack up ST keys and kill each other over nToV, Taken goes for KT and PD, BDA goes for Dain and Inny, that leaves Dozekar, Telk/gozz, all of Kunark, Kelorek, Velk up for smaller guilds.
Some mobs like CT, ST nameds and Tunare would be left up for the day after, maybe NToV mobs like triplets too.

A small amount of variance is good because of timezone differences and RNG, but 16 hours variance with weekly mobs spread from Friday to Tuesday is not fun for anyone. It promotes Rampage levels of neckbearding, burns out trackers and it keeps growing guilds limited to the Gorenaire and Wuoshi-like mobs noone cares about.

Reduce variance and you will see CSG or Divinity snipe a Dain, Dozekar, Gozz/Telk... juicier targets. I would add Statue to the list, but it is not a 7 days repop and is not affected as much.

Rogean does not want to do repops, not much we can do about that.
But reducing variance is a one-time action that would make the whole raid scene healthier and more enjoyable, except for unemployed players who like raiding 5 days per week to hoard pixels.

[am0n]

Originally Posted by Fanguru [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The arguement against reducing variance to +/- 4 hours is that big guilds would camp each target for their short window, then move on to the next, non-overlapping window.

However, with less variance and a reset, all mobs would be up on the same day (ideally a Saturday).
Windows would overlap heavily, making major guilds prioritize targets and mobs would be up for other guilds.
While Rampage and FA rack up ST keys and kill each other over nToV, Taken goes for KT and PD, BDA goes for Dain and Inny, that leaves Dozekar, Telk/gozz, all of Kunark, Kelorek, Velk up for smaller guilds.
Some mobs like CT, ST nameds and Tunare would be left up for the day after, maybe NToV mobs like triplets too.

A small amount of variance is good because of timezone differences and RNG, but 16 hours variance with weekly mobs spread from Friday to Tuesday is not fun for anyone. It promotes Rampage levels of neckbearding, burns out trackers and it keeps growing guilds limited to the Gorenaire and Wuoshi-like mobs noone cares about.

Reduce variance and you will see CSG or Divinity snipe a Dain, Dozekar, Gozz/Telk... juicier targets. I would add Statue to the list, but it is not a 7 days repop and is not affected as much.

Rogean does not want to do repops, not much we can do about that.
But reducing variance is a one-time action that would make the whole raid scene healthier and more enjoyable, except for unemployed players who like raiding 5 days per week to hoard pixels.

[Swish]

Are earthquakes still a thing?

[Seltius]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd rather help improve blue or help bad ideas (like this) die to keep it from being worse.

omg y so mean? I am trying to help Blue your opinion matters so I am not bashing you for bashing me for posting this where others could post instead of where a few select get their say and the rest of Blue has to abide by it or suffer through it.

[maestrom]

Originally Posted by ArumTP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rampage does not get whatever they want. Asgard-Forsaken is literally going after the same mobs as them and succeeds.



Vulak takes all of maybe 7 min to kill. It takes more time for a lot of guilds just to mobilize for anything. They will sweep vulak, and move to tormax on their other 60's parked at the ZL.



That is the beauty of the current system. No guild has to choose one or the other any guild with the right dedication and luck can have it all. Just because you're in a guild that apparently does nothing, doesn't mean that rampage is getting every target.



This is already true with the current system. I really don't think you raid here and are trying to make changes to a system you know nothing about. Vindi is up every 8 hours or so for anyone that wants him. I've seen velkator up for 2 days, woushi gorenaire and talendor up all day. I will say however I think it a lack of any efforts if smaller guilds aren't getting any of these low tier targets. Literally last sev, only asgard and forsaken even bothered to show up.

Vulak takes far longer than 7 minutes to kill. Correct me if I'm wrong, but before you can kill Vulak, it helps to have Aaryonar, Cekenar, Dagarn the Destroyer, Eashen of the Sky, Ikatiar the Venom, Jorlleag, Lady Mirenilla, Lady Nevederia, Lord Feshlak, Lord Koi'Doken, Lord Kreizenn, Lord Vyemm, Sevalak, and Zlexak dead. Maybe that can all be done in ~6 minutes, but I bet it takes longer than a 7th minute to kill Vulak.

That means on a repop, Rampage is going to spend more of the night in NToV killing as many of the above dragons as possible. With no variance, Rampage will have to spend at least as much time in NToV the next week as they did on repop night.

How often does FAT beat Rampage? Is it more than half of the time? I don't really know. If its true that you guys regularly beat Rampage to targets and that you're pretty much always going after the same targets, then yeah I totally see how no variance would be bad for you.

I've said a dozen or so times on these forums that I don't raid here yet. Most of the arguments against no-variance here assume that magically Vulak will be spawning alone during prime time on Wednesday night while the rest of NToV and everything else in the game has been dead for 3 days and isn't going to pop any time soon. How much stuff do you need to clear in order to kill Tormax? I bet you can do IZ to dead Tormax in 15-20 minutes. Same with Kland. Zland might bit a tougher engage but I bet he's also pretty quick. How long does it really take to kill Vulak?

[am0n]

Therein lies the important tidbit. This isn't about just removing variance. It's about removing variance and sim repops regularly (every few weeks). This means a lot more stuff would be happening at once, forcing guilds to be more selective in their choices. By forcing the big guilds to be in a different place when something else spawns, it means other guilds have an opportunity. Plus, it means you can turn the socking into a 1-2 day event instead of an entire week. Perhaps people will be able to enjoy other zones in the game if every night wasn't a sock night.

But all this is moot. The devs aren't interested in it. Even though they claim not to play on the server, which means doing this wouldn't actually impact them.

[maestrom]

Originally Posted by Fanguru [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A small amount of variance is good because of timezone differences and RNG, but 16 hours variance with weekly mobs spread from Friday to Tuesday is not fun for anyone. It promotes Rampage levels of neckbearding, burns out trackers and it keeps growing guilds limited to the Gorenaire and Wuoshi-like mobs noone cares about.

I liked your whole post but I thought this part was interesting.

Can variance be applied globally?

Right now, stuff is 168 + X hours, where X is a number between -8 and 8. Instead of having the variance done per mob, can it be applied globally to all targets?

So the respawn on all mobs would still be 168 + X but instead of each mob having its own X variable, they all pull from ONE X variable defined at a top layer. I'm not a coder, so I have no idea if this is possible or what the code would look like, but the output would be something like this example.

Currently, there are 4 targets on the 168 + X timer. With current variance, you could have:

Target A at 162 hours,
Target B at 176 hours,
Target C at 171 hours,
Target D at 167 hours.

Would global variance be constructable such that the same X is applied to all targets?

Targets A, B, C, D all have spawn timers of 173 hours.

The main purpose of this would be to move "raid night" around during the week. +-8 wouldn't be ideal in this situation though because a prime top repop would have a stronggggggg chance of putting the entire raid spawn either in the middle of a workday or in the middle of the night. Some testing and tweaking would be necessary to ensure raid spawns "walk" through the week but still stay clumped up.

[Legday]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vulak takes far longer than 7 minutes to kill. Correct me if I'm wrong, but before you can kill Vulak, it helps to have Aaryonar, Cekenar, Dagarn the Destroyer, Eashen of the Sky, Ikatiar the Venom, Jorlleag, Lady Mirenilla, Lady Nevederia, Lord Feshlak, Lord Koi'Doken, Lord Kreizenn, Lord Vyemm, Sevalak, and Zlexak dead. Maybe that can all be done in ~6 minutes, but I bet it takes longer than a 7th minute to kill Vulak.

That means on a repop, Rampage is going to spend more of the night in NToV killing as many of the above dragons as possible. With no variance, Rampage will have to spend at least as much time in NToV the next week as they did on repop night.

How often does FAT beat Rampage? Is it more than half of the time? I don't really know. If its true that you guys regularly beat Rampage to targets and that you're pretty much always going after the same targets, then yeah I totally see how no variance would be bad for you.

I've said a dozen or so times on these forums that I don't raid here yet. Most of the arguments against no-variance here assume that magically Vulak will be spawning alone during prime time on Wednesday night while the rest of NToV and everything else in the game has been dead for 3 days and isn't going to pop any time soon. How much stuff do you need to clear in order to kill Tormax? I bet you can do IZ to dead Tormax in 15-20 minutes. Same with Kland. Zland might bit a tougher engage but I bet he's also pretty quick. How long does it really take to kill Vulak?

Any of the Lord or Lady ntov dragons that aren't dead when Vulak is alive will assist him, and Aaryonar will assist anything else in NToV before he dies...so they would have to be kited (illegal to kite a raid mob) or killed before Vulak can die. Right now, because of 16 hour variance and a lack of sim repops, the windows of all of the big Velious targets including all of NToV are spread out from Friday to Tuesday night. As the windows are currently situated, it is only possible that Lord Vyemm would pop and stay alive before Vulak pops (and not very likely that he will), so Vulak is almost always (currently) a solo fight. He takes 5-10 minutes to kill and depending on how clean the FTE pull/train down are, it could take another 5-10 minutes to get him in to camp.

Rampage is currently evenly contested by the Forsaken/Asgard. Rampage has a slight lead so far this week, but last week Forsaken/Asgard went something like 14 of 19 in direct competition with Rampage. That sounds like a humble brag but the reason I'm posting that is to show to you that Rampage does not have free reign outside of ST anymore. They have to compete and fight for every dragon. Asgard/Forsaken have one shotted Vyemm right in front of them and very rarely wipe once a dragon is in camp, so Rampage is forced to respect the threat and perform at a high level. Gone are the days where they could pick and choose and leave tough targets up.