40 day raid ban

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I keep repeating "if you don't want to be suspended, don't join guild that break the rules", and people keep coming back with "well it's apples and oranges, because Anonymous doesn't try to break the rules."

That is exactly what I'm saying! Anonymous isn't missing out on Tormax and similar A/A targets because we don't break the rules, we're missing out because we don't have enough people on at the right times to take those targets. But if we had enough, we absolutely could take them without breaking the rules, as could any guild of the appropriate size.

No one has to break the rules. Everytime a guild does so their leadership is making a calculated decision to break the rules in order to have a better chance at mob X (or to get back at another guild for taking mob X). But they don't have to make those choices, and if they didn't (as plenty of other guilds somehow manage to do) they wouldn't eat suspensions.

This isn't rocket science.

It's always been about what they can get away with within the rules, or get away with without being caught, and how good you can make yourself look on the forums while doing it. The best thing you can do is just enjoy being really casual or get out of this joint

[Detoxx]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I keep repeating "if you don't want to be suspended, don't join guild that break the rules", and people keep coming back with "well it's apples and oranges, because Anonymous doesn't try to break the rules."

That is exactly what I'm saying! Anonymous isn't missing out on Tormax and similar A/A targets because we don't break the rules, we're missing out because we don't have enough people on at the right times to take those targets. But if we had enough, we absolutely could take them without breaking the rules, as could any guild of the appropriate size.

No one has to break the rules. Everytime a guild does so their leadership is making a calculated decision to break the rules in order to have a better chance at mob X (or to get back at another guild for taking mob X). But they don't have to make those choices, and if they didn't (as plenty of other guilds somehow manage to do) they wouldn't eat suspensions.

This isn't rocket science.

That is just completely false. If KT spawned at 6pm est on a Sunday and you wanted to compete in it and kill it you absolutely could. Does that mean you dont risk making a mistake during this time? No. Because no one is perfect. If you think that you could flawlessly kill any target you ever wanted to but dont just because you dont have the force, you are sadly mistaken.

[Detoxx]

You all have this twisted reality that we just cheat and break rules on purpose. The problem is never breaking the rule, the problem is making it right after. A petition for a train would never happen if the offending guild agrees they made a mistake and concede the mob.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Detoxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is just completely false. If KT spawned at 6pm est on a Sunday and you wanted to compete in it and kill it you absolutely could. Does that mean you dont risk making a mistake during this time? No. Because no one is perfect. If you think that you could flawlessly kill any target you ever wanted to but dont just because you dont have the force, you are sadly mistaken.

I'm pretty sure that even on 6pm EST on a Sunday we don't can't get enough people there fast enough. I could be wrong (I'm not an officer or anything), but either way what Anon can or can't do really isn't the point.

As for killing things "flawlessly" and "without mistakes", of course not: we make mistakes on Plane of Air mobs, I highly doubt we could do Tormax or Yelinak or whoever without making some mistakes. But making mistakes is not the same as breaking the rules.

The point is, you and a few others seem to think it's impossible to raid on P99 without breaking the rules, but it's not. It's 100% possible. The staff didn't create these rules as some kind of evil Machivalean trap, and this 15+ year old game is not so hard that you have to cheat to win it.

Play by the rules, or eat suspensions, it's a simple choice.

[Check12345]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I keep repeating "if you don't want to be suspended, don't join guild that break the rules", and people keep coming back with "well it's apples and oranges, because Anonymous doesn't try to break the rules."

That is exactly what I'm saying! Anonymous isn't missing out on Tormax and similar A/A targets because we don't break the rules, we're missing out because we don't have enough people on at the right times to take those targets. But if we had enough, we absolutely could take them without breaking the rules, as could any guild of the appropriate size.

No one has to break the rules. Everytime a guild does so their leadership is making a calculated decision to break the rules in order to have a better chance at mob X (or to get back at another guild for taking mob X). But they don't have to make those choices, and if they didn't (as plenty of other guilds somehow manage to do) they wouldn't eat suspensions.

This isn't rocket science.

I think there is a disconnect here. If you want to kill an NToV dragon with the current raid rules/situation, you have to insta pull or lose.

All of the 'rule breaking' as you put it stems from mistakes made during the pull.

Anonymous would still miss out unless they competed for the same target, using the same pull methods, taking the same risks. Otherwise you get smoked.

[Check12345]

Originally Posted by Check12345 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All of the 'rule breaking' as you put it stems from mistakes made during the pull.

Having said that, shit can just get straight crazy on some of these pulls. Especially if there are multiple attempts to salvage things as they go off the rails. That's usually where a 'mistake' happens.

[Wonkie]

drama on tak consists of a guy who types 'moo' in global chat and the people who hate him

[Tupakk]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm pretty sure that even on 6pm EST on a Sunday we don't can't get enough people there fast enough. I could be wrong (I'm not an officer or anything), but either way what Anon can or can't do really isn't the point.

As for killing things "flawlessly" and "without mistakes", of course not: we make mistakes on Plane of Air mobs, I highly doubt we could do Tormax or Yelinak or whoever without making some mistakes. But making mistakes is not the same as breaking the rules.

The point is, you and a few others seem to think it's impossible to raid on P99 without breaking the rules, but it's not. It's 100% possible. The staff didn't create these rules as some kind of evil Machivalean trap, and this 15+ year old game is not so hard that you have to cheat to win it.

Play by the rules, or eat suspensions, it's a simple choice.

When I said take chances this is an example of y’all not. I didn’t mean go to Ntov and cheat 2 win. I meant go and compete and race and all that jazz. You talk about Sky mobs but if you fuck that up you wipe yourself. Consider this everytime you wipe your guild doing something “petiton” yourself and this you will see how hard it is not to “cheat”.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honestly, I like you, and your posts

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] (and likewise)

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but here you have no idea what you're talking about. Making mistakes is breaking the rules. Any experience in the raid scene would make it obvious that the rules are subjective and completely at the whim of the guys upstairs. None of it usually makes any sense, fortunately that is the one constant. Awakened isn't gone, because of some technicality. It is gone because of poor leadership decisions that lead to the subjective rules being enforced. That is the reality of this server, and that's why we all need to stop pretending there is any type of real competition going on.

Originally Posted by Tupakk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When I said take chances this is an example of y’all not. I didn’t mean go to Ntov and cheat 2 win. I meant go and compete and race and all that jazz. You talk about Sky mobs but if you fuck that up you wipe yourself. Consider this everytime you wipe your guild doing something “petiton” yourself and this you will see how hard it is not to “cheat”.

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is gone because of poor leadership decisions

This is the crux of it to me. Do I have experience competing for Yelinak? Nope. Am I the master of P99 raid rules? Far from it.

But I don't need any of that to know that people have a choice about how they run their guild. They can make efforts to not break the rules, including doing as much as possible to make sure "accidents" don't happen, and then follow the rules for correcting mistakes on the rare occasions that accidents do happen ...

... or they can try their hardest to win every competition, break the rules in the process, and get suspended.

You can (very easily) convince me that I'm not an experienced raider, but you can't convince me that the rules here are so complex, so convoluted, and so hard-to-understand that it is impossible for a guild to compete for top content without breaking those rules.

If you believe that you're essentially saying that Rogean and Sirken are so stupid they made the server rules impossible to follow, and I don't think they're that stupid.

[Tupakk]

If everyone could do it there would be more guilds doing it.

Even the lower content y’all don’t do. Many many many times I’ve poked Anon leaders to come up to atleast my level of what I call raiding. Just for some friendly competition. When BGA was a thing I loved it. You need to sip the koolaid and come play.