I finally I found it: a Troll Shadow Knight guide

[Brut]

Guide instructing to go exp in Oasis. Disgusting.

[Naethyn]

I want to see a human SK with growth armor and a tunare blade. (because paladin's can't get it, but war and sk can)

[ShampooChicken]

This was my main guide back in the day. Troll Shadowknight was my main character, had an absolute blast. Thanks for finding it again, I haven't read it in 20 years.

[starkind]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Players are not hated for minmaxing per se. Minmaxers are hated for:

• being obnoxious gits about it,
• refusing to group classes/races that have not received their MinMaxSealOfApproval[tm],
• being obnoxious gits about it,
• demanding "perfect" size & composition of their groups,
• being obnoxious gits about it,
• framing all in-game social interaction in terms of their personal "perfection" in race/class/gear choices,
• being obnoxious gits about it.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is silly, because nobody here is obnoxious about Min/Maxing (not that I have seen anyway). If you start discussing specifics of game mechanics, there IS a right and wrong answer. The right answer needs to be uncovered for Min/Max builds to work correctly. Otherwise, you do not Min/Max due to faulty information. I think you are just misinterpreting mechanic discussions.

If there are players out there who don't group with Human Monks because they aren't Iksars, for example, I agree with you they are idiots hehe.

lol people are so obnoxious about it they won't (or cant) play this game without certain itemization

gratz bladefrenzy

[Naethyn]

Looking cool matters way more than people think.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Looking cool matters way more than people think.

Case study: I had a monk in Bristlesilk (essentially vendor bought cloth stats but with Velious appearance). Got loads of groups.

Upgraded to an armour that was leather stats but + magic resists and looked like cloth ... group rejections specifically cos i appeared badly geared.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by starkind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol people are so obnoxious about it they won't (or cant) play this game without certain itemization

gratz bladefrenzy

Honestly I have never seen these "obnoxious" people, and I have grouped with a lot of random people. Bladefrenzy is a good example, but he is the exception, rather than the rule. Ninja looting/improper looting is pretty rare, as it gets actively punished. I have only seen that happen a handful of times, and they were swiftly dealt with by the GMs.

But to play devils advocate, let's say I just got lucky and never found these people. My original point still stands: We should be clear about the facts of the game, as it helps everybody, including Min/Maxers. People shouldn't feel bad if they are wrong about game mechanics when discussing them. There is a right and wrong answer to how game mechanics work, and there is no reason to obfuscate the truth. Being wrong isn't a bad thing, and it leads to proper understanding of the game.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We should be clear about the facts of the game

That's why these discussions tend to involve a lot of people arguing past each other. You can min-max all you want in this game yet at the same time it's a loosely-tuned game where conventional min-maxing is largely unnecessary. Both sides can be (and are) right at the same time and that leads to the endless circular discussions.

Or, perhaps, true min-maxing in this game takes a different direction than it usually does in this genre. Having the right click items or proc weapons or knowing the oddities of pathing or Z axis glitches matters dramatically more than a few stat points or what race a person picked.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's why these discussions tend to involve a lot of people arguing past each other. You can min-max all you want in this game yet at the same time it's a loosely-tuned game where conventional min-maxing is largely unnecessary. Both sides can be (and are) right at the same time and that leads to the endless circular discussions.

Or, perhaps, true min-maxing in this game takes a different direction than it usually does in this genre. Having the right click items or proc weapons or knowing the oddities of pathing or Z axis glitches matters dramatically more than a few stat points or what race a person picked.

Danth

The fact that Min/Maxing isn't absolutely necessary in this game is irrelevant. People should still be able to get the correct facts about the game so they can play how they want. If its fun for someone to play the best tuned race for their class, they should know what race that is, without reading tons of pages of misinformation.

Two sides can't be correct when it comes to how the game works. It either works a certain way or it doesn't. I am not sure what kind of example you have in mind for two sides being right about how a game mechanic works. The only scenario I can think of is if two people have partial understanding of a mechanic, so they both have part of it correct. But I don't remember seeing that on this forum.

[Danth]

Think you mis-interpreted. The "both sides are right" comment refers to it being reality in this game that there's a best choice but that best choice quite often confers such a minuscule advantage as to be superfluous in practice. New-to-P99'ers are commonly trained to min-max by other games and ask about whats "best" out of habit without realizing that this isn't the kind of game where they necessarily have to adopt such a mentality. So I try to add that disclaimer, where appropriate.

Yes, it's true--I've run into players who genuinely believed that non-ogres are wholly incapable of casting spells while being attacked, or that half-elf druids could never gain enough mana to quad because of their low default wisdom. I've met people who believed a dark elf warrior could never be a raid tank, or who truly thought most groups were going to care if their paladin was a high elf instead of a dwarf. I'm addressing that bunch. You're more focused on hobbyist character planners so our purpose differs somewhat.

Danth