Bumamgar

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Who are you referring to ? Give examples of GMs enforcing player-made rules. Do it here, or privately to me.

I officially give up, lol.

If player-driven rules aren't enforced, and we as players can't fix the state the server is in with some assurance that what efforts we put into are worth-while, then it doesn't matter anyway, right? That means all that goblledy**** we went through several months ago was meaningless. It means all the desire to make changes as players -and attempting to find a solution as players - is meaningless.

Cuz I can say this...end-game here is being destroyed by what's happened. It used to be fun, and competitive. Now it's neither. And all anybody is doing about it is arguing.

Well...I still love the game. I'm glad you guys have put all the effort into that you have. I'm sad to see what's happened.

But it seems that's the way it is.

[Abacab2]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Who are you referring to ? Give examples of GMs enforcing player-made rules. Do it here, or privately to me.

*Engaging with 15 people

*Calling a timer and no leapfrogging

*Killing and clearing planes before engage

*Dictating targets if two raid mobs are up

*Special rules of engagement

Nizzarr among others back in the day adopted those rules through guild meetings which are player rules, those things I listed above if broke will warrant GM enforcement in the form of bans all around.

All of those things above are player rules that were adopted and skewed into server rules due to the consensus of two end game guilds?

[Uaellaen]

If I am not mistaken there are now a couple other guilds looking to enter the raid scene. Pretty sure the Big 4 never expected to maintain control of a monopoly on the raid targets so maybe now would be a good time to hold another pow wow of the leaders and reestablish/change/redistribute the player based rule set?

we agreed from the beginnign to hold a meeting every first sunday of the month ... so new guilds could also have a say in changing rules, but still would have to be agreed on by the majority ...

but peopel stopped coming to those meetings, since some guilds thought they can just come, say "no we want it this way" and have it theyr way ... wich of course didnt happen, we discussed about that for hours and hours and hours and hours until everyone was fed up ...

[Spirell]

Just as a completely random WI guild member's take on this...

I honestly didn't know what Ektar was talking about, and that is why I didn't respond in shout until one of the officers told me too. He just did a shout that just said "roll call". I wasn't sure if that was a roll call for a raid mob, or the German translation from "camp check" (there were 2 responses of "royals" and "bnb" to that roll call btw, so I wasn't the only one confused)

I appreciate that IB was cool about it and informed us that it is usually done that waym (but FYI they did call a 30 minute timer on us right after we responded, so not like they were letting us slide). I guess I was looking for a little more than just "roll call" in shout.. maybe like a "Roll call for naggy spawn" or "roll call check on WI" or "IB initiating a 60 second roll call check on WI" or something with a little more information. As it was it was a non-issue, and no other guild was in zone with 15 plus, so I am perplexed as to why this thread started in the first place. If anything this was only an issue between IB and WI.

[nilbog]

I FULLY SUPPORT the concept of player-made rules, but my staff doesn't have to be fluent in those rules, they mitigate server rules. On more than one occasion I have specifically stated that if you call a GM, they will be showing up to enforce server rules, not yours.

As far as the raiding scene, its terrible, and I agree. I have a simple amendment to the current rules that I think will have a good effect. We're tired of reading about raids, no doubt.

Abacab, I think you misunderstood my question. I asked if GMs showed up to enforce player-made rules. If you are calling the raid rules posted by me "player-made rules", then that is just a misunderstanding. It was a combination of a lot of different people, which in the end was decided on by management, not players.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I FULLY SUPPORT the concept of player-made rules, but my staff doesn't have to be fluent in those rules, they mitigate server rules. On more than one occasion I have specifically stated that if you call a GM, they will be showing up to enforce server rules, not yours.

As far as the raiding scene, its terrible, and I agree. I have a simple amendment to the current rules that I think will have a good effect. We're tired of reading about raids, no doubt..

Thank you. Sorry about the knee-jerk reaction. I hope to god you're right, lol.

[Rogean]

So, I've only been skimming this thread, but it's pretty clear to me that you guys are trying to call Bumamgar out for his guild failing some type of Roll Call? As far as I can see, theres no such rule in the server rules about a roll call, so every single point you make about that, is irrelevant.

[Starklen]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, I've only been skimming this thread, but it's pretty clear to me that you guys are trying to call Bumamgar out for his guild failing some type of Roll Call? As far as I can see, theres no such rule in the server rules about a roll call, so every single point you make about that, is irrelevant.

Guess you shouldn't sticky it and keep the title "Official Raid Rules" then.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, I've only been skimming this thread, but it's pretty clear to me that you guys are trying to call Bumamgar out for his guild failing some type of Roll Call? As far as I can see, theres no such rule in the server rules about a roll call, so every single point you make about that, is irrelevant.

That's what I was saying in my post referring to what Nilbog stated.

How can player-driven rules be supported, then said to be irrelevant? It only means that the problems that arise with any ruleset must be addressed by the staff rather than the playerbase.

That just creates more work for you guys, because it entails having any clarifications having to be addressed by staff, versus player rules.

[Rogean]

I did not sticky it. Usually I try to stay uninvolved with that drama though.