Would you play on red if:

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Naprox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Although I've never tried PvP in EQ, from what I've observed about the game mechanics and the fact that many forms of CC are negated on Red as I understand it, I just see no reason to put much effort into it.

There are plenty of better MMOs out there that were specifically designed for PvP as their primary reason, with much better mechanics. Dark Age of Camelot comes to mind as one if you're looking for something that is both PvP and nostalgic.

Would you want a necro sneaking up and fearing you, dotting you and killing you before you got the chance to respond? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some parts of CC would be incredibly overpowered if they worked as they do in pve.

[Naprox]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Would you want a necro sneaking up and fearing you, dotting you and killing you before you got the chance to respond? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some parts of CC would be incredibly overpowered if they worked as they do in pve.

PvP is PvP. As long as counters are obtainable within the game (i.e. resists) then yes they should work the same. If you take away fear from a necro than that class simply has no viability in the pvp format.

Therein lays the problem with EQ and PvP. You cannot equitably balance the classes for PvP because this game was never intended to be a PvP game. Hence, no real reason to play on an EQ PvP server. At least for myself.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The "pvp happened to me, I don't like it" mentality needs some work

Based on other recent threads, that seems like a pretty typical Red response: if you don't think it's fun to have no control over being killed, you don't belong on Red. Well then, it's no wonder so few people think they belong on Red.

I'm no stranger to MMOG PvP: I played DaoC, EVE, WoW (on a PvP server), and even Shattered Galaxies (a failed RTS MMOG). I most definitely enjoy PvP in the right context ... but when I'm leveling in my starting area, that's not the right context. No amount of lecturing me on how my "mentality needs some work" is going to change that.

Consider a WoW PvP server (in contrast to Red):

1. I start in an area that's pretty much 100% safe from PvP.
2. Once I level enough to leave, I can still XP in a mostly safe area: if the opposing faction shows up to grief, warning alerts inform the whole zone and higher level players appear to save me.
3. Once I leave the "mostly safe" area, people generally keep the fighting to contested zones and battlegrounds (they're incentivized to).
4. Even if I do get in a fight elsewhere, at least I'm ready for it, and have a whole faction to support me.

Red isn't WoW, and it shouldn't be. But Red should take lessons from successful games, and change its ruleset to support fun for everyone ... or it can stay as is, and Red players can keep telling anyone who doesn't like it that they don't belong.


TLDR: If someone has tried Red and didn't have fun, telling them they don't belong (or that they need a different mentality) is not going to grow your server. What will grow the server is taking a lesson from other games where PvP actually was successful, and changing Red's rules in ways that encourage fun for everyone (ie. fair fights) and discourages ganking of n00bs.

[Aveenia]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll play on red if the Priest of Order allows me to turn in the book of order and turn off PvP.

Yup.

[applesauce25r624]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Enchanter class is pretty awful on this emu. Dispell line restistable past cancel magic, chaotic feedback ultra resisted when it was almost never resisted on live. I was afraid of a good enchanter on SZ, on red it's a joke.

gheyyyyyyyy

wish we had DR on CC on red. isn't fear disabled completely?

[Daywolf]

n0

[metatron]

no we will not play on red,

now please let blue be

[Swish]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Based on other recent threads, that seems like a pretty typical Red response: if you don't think it's fun to have no control over being killed, you don't belong on Red. Well then, it's no wonder so few people think they belong on Red.

Well, in turn...that's a typical blue response I think [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not for everyone, but I think a lot of people misjudge how good it can be. The only thing that would make it "classic" is a higher pop.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Based on other recent threads, that seems like a pretty typical Red response: if you don't think it's fun to have no control over being killed, you don't belong on Red. Well then, it's no wonder so few people think they belong on Red.

I'm no stranger to MMOG PvP: I played DaoC, EVE, WoW (on a PvP server), and even Shattered Galaxies (a failed RTS MMOG). I most definitely enjoy PvP in the right context ... but when I'm leveling in my starting area, that's not the right context. No amount of lecturing me on how my "mentality needs some work" is going to change that.

Consider a WoW PvP server (in contrast to Red):

1. I start in an area that's pretty much 100% safe from PvP.
2. Once I level enough to leave, I can still XP in a mostly safe area: if the opposing faction shows up to grief, warning alerts inform the whole zone and higher level players appear to save me.
3. Once I leave the "mostly safe" area, people generally keep the fighting to contested zones and battlegrounds (they're incentivized to).
4. Even if I do get in a fight elsewhere, at least I'm ready for it, and have a whole faction to support me.

Red isn't WoW, and it shouldn't be. But Red should take lessons from successful games, and change its ruleset to support fun for everyone ... or it can stay as is, and Red players can keep telling anyone who doesn't like it that they don't belong.


TLDR: If someone has tried Red and didn't have fun, telling them they don't belong (or that they need a different mentality) is not going to grow your server. What will grow the server is taking a lesson from other games where PvP actually was successful, and changing Red's rules in ways that encourage fun for everyone (ie. fair fights) and discourages ganking of n00bs.

A lot of emphasis there on being able to be killed in your starting area. Consider how long you're there, versus your time in other places later on.

If you get ganked by a deleveled epic rogue in full uber gear with everything BIS while killing wolves/orc pawns/skeletons (as is a frequently typed out myth) I'd say you got extremely unlucky [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's the kind of thing that really doesn't happen often, but sure...death is part of it. If you can't handle being killed by another player (which seems to be what you're saying) then by all means stick to blue.

EQ pvp isn't ez mode WoW pvp with quick respawns/access to corpses/etc. But it is fun.

I know that if more people played on red, more people would play on red, nameen? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't hate on the recruitment threads, it's just a bunch of us who'd like to see the community grow.

[Daywolf]

Don't get me wrong, luv pvp, just FFA isn't my thing at all. Too many years of faction wars in swg, ps1, wwii online, uo, eve, to name a few. I like more organized pvp, and big battles. P99 needs a FW server of some sorts, maybe with hybrid firiona vie rules and some sort of flag system to fight over.