My Theory About Why Feminism is Currently Irrelevent to Millenials

[JurisDictum]

Things go top down in this country a lot. That means, elites decide how things are -- put that information on the media networks they own, and understanding flows downhill from there. At least for most people on most subjects.

Trump and Bernie Sanders are examples of bottom-up movements, where people not in elite circles make enough noise to force the elites to deal with them. This happens in this country and will more and more -- but the day to day is top-down.

Feminism is top-down. The top females in society are rich (white or white-acting) women. Rich white women have the most privileged position in society besides rich white (or white-acting) men. Men have to trade comfort for responsibility -- but nevertheless are given more power that lasts much longer into old age.

The elites wanted to put women in the workforce and create more skill labor. This started in World War II and it proved hard to put the Ginnie back in the bottle. Free market forces destroys the family dependent on the government and the social contract of high paid male labor...but the wealthy are the last to change.

Everything stayed patriarchal with the wealthy. Boys were expected to make more money than girls. The prettiest girls from good families get to marry the boys from the most promising families. The way to socially advance as a women is still through marriage and management of that marriage.

Even when women have these impressive-sounding careers...often they are simply pet projects in the eyes of their husbands. An interest like girls have at those pageants. "This one knows how to juggle and is an accountant -- check out that ass!"

So when it comes time for the Harvard feminists to write essays about the oppression of women...they are stuck in the past aren't they? They are living the past -- or the present if you are rich.

So by all means rich ladies -- please get rid of all these old perverts that keep the 1970s alive for your class. Just don't assume it works like that for younger middle and lower class people. I wouldn't dream of sexually harassing someone just because I had an important job. I would expect to be fired upon accusation to be honest.

All the important people I know from my age group are women with bum-fuck boyfriends that play video games when their at work. This whole "good ol' boys" running the top is going to die with Boomers and Gen-X. Millennials are going to be the bitch boy generation from what I can see.

Edit: It has occurred to me that rich Millenials might still find Feminism useful. In fact, that is why there is so many Sexual Harassment cases now probably (among the elite). But otherwise feminism among lower class Millenials seems to breed this kind of excuse that does more harm than good. "If I was a white man I'd..." I don't think so honey. Not unless your talking about the military special forces or something. If you didn't get into Standford its not because you weren't born a white man -- not in 2017.

[Lulz~Sect]

https://i.imgur.com/WsifLR4.jpg

[JurisDictum]

https://i.imgur.com/WsifLR4.jpg

If that's what it looks like outside...your still going to have to get your ass to work by 9 and grapple with office politics inspired by feminism.

So you might as well confront it now while the sky is blue bro.

[Patriam1066]

Haha white acting

That's me!

[Patriam1066]

Also buddy let me tell you something. There's nothing wrong with marrying an accountant with ass. If y'all are in your 20s and 30s you better not put a ring on a girl who doesn't squat at the gym

[Lulz~Sect]

Literally work in a office with 90% women and god forbid you correct one of those approAching her chIldless 30s with senior in her title. Micro-aggression central lol

[Jimjam]

I read all of OP! Thanks for posting!Also buddy let me tell you something. There's nothing wrong with marrying an accountant with ass. If y'all are in your 20s and 30s you better not put a ring on a girl who doesn't squat at the gym

My most longstanding friend gave me the advice "marry the arse, buy the tits". Seemed horrifyingly crass to me. But I did go Greek, so I guess advice taken?

[loramin]

Feminism = women and men should be treated equally (well, leaving aside physical differences: not even the most strident feminist would lobby for urinals in the female bathrooms). As long as any class of people (women, minorities, etc.) aren't treated equally there will be a need for social movements that promote their equality.

In other words, feminism won't be irrelevant to anyone until women and men are equal.

[Jimjam]

This is a good point Loramin, but when the prime determiner of repression is a non gender attribute like class (or in the new world, more likely race? I hear you guys over the pond are pretty racist? Is that true, or is that just me being racist?) then I guess it is easy to miss that bigger picture perspective.

[JurisDictum]

Feminism = women and men should be treated equally (well, leaving aside physical differences: not even the most strident feminist would lobby for urinals in the female bathrooms). As long as any class of people (women, minorities, etc.) aren't treated equally there will be a need for social movements that promote their equality.

In other words, feminism won't be irrelevant to anyone until women and men are equal.

So basically until the world is perfect in reguard to women and men there always be a need for feminism? I don't think so. Their may always be feminism -- but there will also be a point where it literally causes more harm than good.

We are starting to get there. No one believes its ok to sexually harass women (in my generation), rape women, or pay women less for the same work. But.It.Keeps.Going.Hard.

Meanwhile -- class is derided by many of these feminists as unimportant in comparison to their own fake struggle that is barely existent by comparison.

Edit: Remember I'm talking about Millenials -- particular those that aren't working next to someone like Bill'O Reilly. There are a lot of poor 23 year old women that would have gone for that old disgusting ass...because when your not born rich you don't take opportunities like that lightly. But when you are from well off families like the girls that moron harassed... There is no appeal is there? Inc. Sexual Harassment case that only a really expensive lawyer can execute. The power struggle is about class and money...not men and women.

[loramin]

This is a good point Loramin, but when the prime determiner of repression is a non gender attribute like class (or in the new world, more likely race? I hear you guys over the pond are pretty racist? Is that true, or is that just me being racist?) then I guess it is easy to miss that bigger picture perspective.

America is a big place, so I definitely wouldn't make generalizations like "you guys over the pond are pretty racist". Even in the south the vast vast majority of people aren't racist (at least not overtly so).

But then you've got institutionalized racism. For instance, even black cops pick on black people more because they, like everyone else, have been trained by society to think "criminal" when they see a black person. That sort of racism is definitely pervasive in America ... but I don't think other countries escape it either. Are Muslim immigrants treated equally to other UK citizens?

Ultimately, in America or anywhere else, as long as there are racial disparities in a society that society will need minority rights groups to push it towards greater equality.

Their may always be feminism -- but there will also be a point where it literally causes more harm than good.

How can fighting for equality ever do (real) harm? Like sure if men get paid twice as much as women, and society corrects that, then men are "harmed" by getting less pay ... but every cent they lose goes to a woman who (by definition) deserved it more, so overall it's a net gain for society. If women started making more than men then that would be real harm ... but that wouldn't truly be feminism because feminism is about fighting for equality, not for either gender to be better off.

For historical comparison purposes, when did the Irish/Italian/Scottish/etc. rights activists jump the shark and start causing harm by advocating for their rights? I'd argue never, because legitimately fighting for equality doesn't hurt anyone except the people benefiting from the unfair system. And then once they achieved true equality in society they stopped being necessary, which is why no one ever hears about Irish-American equality groups in America anymore.

Hopefully someday the same will be true for feminists and minority advocates ... but I don't see that day coming anytime soon.

The power struggle is about class and money...not men and women.

I'd maybe express that instead as "the power struggle (between men and women, dominant races and minority ones, etc.) is expressed differently depending on the class/money of the participants." A woman from a rich background is likely going to respond to harassment differently from a woman who is poor, but both definitely experience harassment caused by a power imbalance.

[Pokesan]

my theory is gamergate broke alot of dorks minds and that is why you made this thread

[Lulz~Sect]

https://i.imgur.com/drDeEXH_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

[maskedmelon]

i don't understand OP :c are you suggesting millennials are not quite so irredeemably daft as we put on? (i think im a millennial, maybe im the one before that... how I find out?)

[JurisDictum]

How can fighting for equality ever do (real) harm? Like sure if men get paid twice as much as women, and society corrects that, then men are "harmed" by getting less pay ... but every cent they lose goes to a woman who (by definition) deserved it more, so overall it's a net gain for society. If women started making more than men then that would be real harm ... but that wouldn't truly be feminism because feminism is about fighting for equality, not for either gender to be better off.


There is an important strategy for controlling people called divide and conquer. You get men from blue color humble backgrounds jealous of white collar women and get both those groups into 2 separate political constituencies. As long as one is Democrat and the other is Republican in America -- you have successfully split the vote. Two low income groups are now convinced that the problem is men or women are getting a better deal -- and thats why you can't afford anything

So social justice movements -- all over the world -- are constantly used to keep certain groups in power. The CIA supports social justice movements around the world when it serves a political purpose for us. A lot of terrorist movements, double as social justice ideology.

They aren't always positive. We have just got that impression for here in the U.S. -- because our movements usually are. I think feminism has been. But I'm concerned by a growing trend of corporate Democrats using feminism and racism to split the vote of poor people and turning America into a choice between Conservative or Conservative-light.

Free speech is good. Is it good when Milo goes on stage and dishonestly accuses trans people of more likely to sexually assult others -- and then cries about free speech afterwords?

Nah that sucks...sure we need free speech -- but a big free speech movement over Milo's right to incite hatred toward trans people is probably a bad thing not a good thing.

[JurisDictum]

my theory is gamergate broke alot of dorks minds and that is why you made this thread

Those guys were idiots. "It's ok to grab a girls ass if you play fighting games."

So I'm completely wrong based on gamergate alone...but its important to note that most people agree anti-feminist gamer geeks are completely pathetic and have no social status. We might think otherwise -- but every time one of these guys gets a girlfriend they seem to 180 on all that wannabe macho alpha shit.

Edit: You can read my post as anti-feminist.. but its not supposed to be. It's more like: "Hey feminists...make yourselves more relevant to most Millennials."

[loramin]

There is an important strategy for controlling people called divide and conquer. You get men from blue color humble backgrounds jealous of white collar women and get both those groups into 2 separate political constituencies. As long as one is Democrat and the other is Republican in America -- you have successfully split the vote. Two low income groups are now convinced that the problem is men or women are getting a better deal -- and thats why you can't afford anything

So social justice movements -- all over the world -- are constantly used to keep certain groups in power. The CIA supports social justice movements around the world when it serves a political purpose for us. A lot of terrorist movements, double as social justice ideology.

They aren't always positive. We have just got that impression for here in the U.S. -- because our movements usually are. I think feminism has been. But I'm concerned by a growing trend of corporate Democrats using feminism and racism to split the vote of poor people and turning America into a choice between Conservative or Conservative-light.

Free speech is good. Is it good when Milo goes on stage and dishonestly accuses trans people of more likely to sexually assult others -- and then cries about free speech afterwords?

Nah that sucks...sure we need free speech -- but a big free speech movement over Milo's right to incite hatred toward trans people is probably a bad thing not a good thing.

Ok identity politics are definitely a thing, so I see your point. But I'd caution against a baby/bathwater scenario. In other words, just because political parties, the CIA, and whoever else tries to use rights movements to their benefit, that doesn't mean you shouldn't have rights movements ... it just means the leaders of those movements need to be smart and political (which you need to be anyway to lead such a movement).

[mickmoranis]

feminism is irrelevant because we are already equal

[mickmoranis]

But then you've got institutionalized racism. For instance, even black cops pick on black people more because they, like everyone else, have been trained by society to think "criminal" when they see a black person.

But when crime is disproportionately perpetrated by black people, and black criminals dress exactly the same as black people, aka as a thug, and police have been using profiling to both protect themselves and us, as the central ability for them to investigate and stop crime for the last 100 years, what do you expect to happen?

Hear me out... I know your teeth are grinding at the perceived racism above.... It's not though.

The left has this ability to be like, "well I think racism is real so cops must only operate because of institutional racism"

No, they operate the way they do around black people, because of STATISTICS, and they use those statistics to police. Then someone finds out that they do that, and they think its institutional racism.

The number of institutional racism vs regular profiling is drastically less than. its just modern libs cant tell the difference and think what they read on buzzfeed is the truth.

If you think the science behind profiling is wrong, then watch Mindhunter on netflix and you'll see its how we use it to prevent murder very often.

That sort of racism is definitely pervasive in America ... but I don't think other countries escape it either. Are Muslim immigrants treated equally to other UK citizens?

They are treated worse in most contries that accept them, because they are immigrants and that right off the bat in racist europe is a mark against you, and also they are entitled and create nasty crime, which gives them a bad reputation, and oh what happens? The above, the police profile them, people missinterperate that to institutional racism, they cry that its not fair, they give up trying, because, WHY try when the institution is against you!

The spiral continues. Crime goes up, riots happen, more profiling, less hope yadda yadda etc etc.

Ultimately, in America or anywhere else, as long as there are racial disparities in a society that society will need minority rights groups to push it towards greater equality.

There are solutions besides demanding some sort of change in the way other people operate.. like idk, stop acting like a victim and start taking responsibility for your own actions? The black community in america suffers from this very thing. They feel like there is no point in trying, because WE tell them the system is rigged against them. Why would you try when the whole system is rigged against you?!

Then what happens when a black person works on them self? THEY EXCEL they do wonderful, they fit RIGHT into society...

WHY?

Because america is NOT a racist country. The system isn't rigged against them. They are free and equal just like anyone else. That's why.

But they're conditioned to think they are second class citizens, by even the very minority groups that are trying to help them. The minority activist groups say that they're being screwed, so agian, why try?! Not until I get what I deserve!

How can fighting for equality ever do (real) harm?

Exactly like I said above, by telling a group of people that they are being screwed, when they are not, you discourage them actually working towards the goal that they hope to achieve, independence. You make them dependent on other people. The black communities in america, suffered GREATLY from this (not saying they didnt from a whole bunch of fucked up shit pre civil rights movement/slavery) and they suffer from it every day today.

When you tell someone they dont have a shot, they dont try to take one.

Like sure if men get paid twice as much as women, and society corrects that, then men are "harmed" by getting less pay

This is a myth, myths like this create animosity between two groups that up until then were getting along. That is harmful to the end goal of equality.


Hopefully someday the same will be true for feminists and minority advocates ... but I don't see that day coming anytime soon.

We have, the civil rights movement got us there. But our generation has had such a failed educational system, that nobody today KNOWS that this happened. They now wander around reading headlines from buzzfeed and huff po and NYT and CNN and think that whatever they read in that poorly written op-ed is true.

They get mad, they fight, they create animosity, they shoot themselves in the foot.

Why? So some media corporations can make profits off advertising. Its sick.

I'd maybe express that instead as "the power struggle (between men and women, dominant races and minority ones, etc.) is expressed differently depending on the class/money of the participants." A woman from a rich background is likely going to respond to harassment differently from a woman who is poor, but both definitely experience harassment caused by a power imbalance.

The thing is you have people going, "look at these immigrants, they come to this country, they have no money, they work super hard doing 3 low paying job, just to make ends meet." But what theyre not telling you is theyre living in fucking CALIFORNIA and they have a hosue with like 17 fucking people in it, half of them are kids (aka dreamers) that they have to provide for and on top of that, they SEND MONEY HOME...

OF COURSE you cant get ahead when you have that many dependents lol, but then to say its the system, its institutional racism, its rigged, to say that THAT is the reason? That is just sad, and it enables their bad behavior.

If you want to get ahead in america, you have to work hard of course, but you have to work SMART as well.

Telling people that the system is rigged against them, or that there is institutional racism holding them back, or that men are going to cheat them out of their hard work, doesn't help. It enables the ability for the gap (that we solved with the civil rights movement and woman's rights movement in the 60's and 70's) to grow and grow.

You dont ahve to agree, but lor, i feel like you might be able to at least understand why the cause's on the left are not worth fighting for.

They exist because of boredom because we live in a good society that allowed for our generation to forget their history and want some drama in an otherwise working and unexciting political climate.

They exist to elect politicians and to make the corporations cash so they can dump money onto those same politicians to get rid of things like net neutrality or allow them to build a housing development.

They exist simply, because Americans are dumb.

[AzzarTheGod]

Also buddy let me tell you something. There's nothing wrong with marrying an accountant with ass. If y'all are in your 20s and 30s you better not put a ring on a girl who doesn't squat at the gym

rules

[Cecily]

feminism is irrelevant because we are already equal

I tend to mostly agree with this statement. I don't think we're equal yet, but close enough where splitting hairs over trivial things becomes ridiculous. Every successive wave of feminism becomes less and less of a civil rights issue and more and more of a power struggle. The definition of a feminist is someone who believes in equality of the sexes, but I don't believe any thinking person can agree that the best way to achieve that is by focusing exclusively on women. Things are and have been messed up for men for years. Feminists tend to ignore or outright scoff at men's issues in society. It's not about equality. It's about wanting to see your team win in the social hierarchy, and that is the absolute worst approach towards creating a harmonious society for everyone.

[Pokesan]

But when crime is disproportionately perpetrated by black people, and black criminals dress exactly the same as black people, aka as a thug, and police have been using profiling to both protect themselves and us, as the central ability for them to investigate and stop crime for the last 100 years, what do you expect to happen?

Hear me out... I know your teeth are grinding at the perceived racism above.... It's not though.

The left has this ability to be like, "well I think racism is real so cops must only operate because of institutional racism"

No, they operate the way they do around black people, because of STATISTICS, and they use those statistics to police. Then someone finds out that they do that, and they think its institutional racism.

The number of institutional racism vs regular profiling is drastically less than. its just modern libs cant tell the difference and think what they read on buzzfeed is the truth.

If you think the science behind profiling is wrong, then watch Mindhunter on netflix and you'll see its how we use it to prevent murder very often.



They are treated worse in most contries that accept them, because they are immigrants and that right off the bat in racist europe is a mark against you, and also they are entitled and create nasty crime, which gives them a bad reputation, and oh what happens? The above, the police profile them, people missinterperate that to institutional racism, they cry that its not fair, they give up trying, because, WHY try when the institution is against you!

The spiral continues. Crime goes up, riots happen, more profiling, less hope yadda yadda etc etc.



There are solutions besides demanding some sort of change in the way other people operate.. like idk, stop acting like a victim and start taking responsibility for your own actions? The black community in america suffers from this very thing. They feel like there is no point in trying, because WE tell them the system is rigged against them. Why would you try when the whole system is rigged against you?!

Then what happens when a black person works on them self? THEY EXCEL they do wonderful, they fit RIGHT into society...

WHY?

Because america is NOT a racist country. The system isn't rigged against them. They are free and equal just like anyone else. That's why.

But they're conditioned to think they are second class citizens, by even the very minority groups that are trying to help them. The minority activist groups say that they're being screwed, so agian, why try?! Not until I get what I deserve!



Exactly like I said above, by telling a group of people that they are being screwed, when they are not, you discourage them actually working towards the goal that they hope to achieve, independence. You make them dependent on other people. The black communities in america, suffered GREATLY from this (not saying they didnt from a whole bunch of fucked up shit pre civil rights movement/slavery) and they suffer from it every day today.

When you tell someone they dont have a shot, they dont try to take one.



This is a myth, myths like this create animosity between two groups that up until then were getting along. That is harmful to the end goal of equality.




We have, the civil rights movement got us there. But our generation has had such a failed educational system, that nobody today KNOWS that this happened. They now wander around reading headlines from buzzfeed and huff po and NYT and CNN and think that whatever they read in that poorly written op-ed is true.

They get mad, they fight, they create animosity, they shoot themselves in the foot.

Why? So some media corporations can make profits off advertising. Its sick.



The thing is you have people going, "look at these immigrants, they come to this country, they have no money, they work super hard doing 3 low paying job, just to make ends meet." But what theyre not telling you is theyre living in fucking CALIFORNIA and they have a hosue with like 17 fucking people in it, half of them are kids (aka dreamers) that they have to provide for and on top of that, they SEND MONEY HOME...

OF COURSE you cant get ahead when you have that many dependents lol, but then to say its the system, its institutional racism, its rigged, to say that THAT is the reason? That is just sad, and it enables their bad behavior.

If you want to get ahead in america, you have to work hard of course, but you have to work SMART as well.

Telling people that the system is rigged against them, or that there is institutional racism holding them back, or that men are going to cheat them out of their hard work, doesn't help. It enables the ability for the gap (that we solved with the civil rights movement and woman's rights movement in the 60's and 70's) to grow and grow.

You dont ahve to agree, but lor, i feel like you might be able to at least understand why the cause's on the left are not worth fighting for.

They exist because of boredom because we live in a good society that allowed for our generation to forget their history and want some drama in an otherwise working and unexciting political climate.

They exist to elect politicians and to make the corporations cash so they can dump money onto those same politicians to get rid of things like net neutrality or allow them to build a housing development.

They exist simply, because Americans are dumb.

fake news

[mickmoranis]

The only thing that separates men and woman, are bad parents who raise their kids to think that one of them will have a better chance at something and the other is going to have to work harder.

The result is one of them works harder and the other one feels like a victim and doesn't try to take what they have been told is rightfully theirs.

Poke thinks that the patriarchy has a psycological effect on how society affects men and women.. However when you tell him that it is creating the gap that he is so upset about.. he calls it fake news.

Poke, how can you think you can have an effect on society, but then turn around 180 degree's and be like, no this has no effect on society?

This is why the left will and always does, fail. Because they are idiots.

[Cecily]

https://i.imgur.com/hx7QoJN.jpg

Why don't we just all make our own sandwiches?

[mickmoranis]

https://i.imgur.com/hx7QoJN.jpg

Why don't we just all make our own sandwiches?

do you actually know anyone who doesnt?

[Pokesan]

The only thing that separates men and woman, are bad parents who raise their kids to think that one of them will have a better chance at something and the other is going to have to work harder.

The result is one of them works harder and the other one feels like a victim and doesn't try to take what they have been told is rightfully theirs.

Poke thinks that the patriarchy has a psycological effect on how society affects men and women.. However when you tell him that it is creating the gap that he is so upset about.. he calls it fake news.

Poke, how can you think you can have an effect on society, but then turn around 180 degree's and be like, no this has no effect on society?

This is why the left will and always does, fail. Because they are idiots.

i just like winding you up

[mickmoranis]

me too bb

[Cecily]

do you actually know anyone who doesnt?

I mean like every McDonalds patron ever. Sandwiches are not really the point though. She's more likely protesting the casual disrespect towards women still pervasive in our society, because the last thing that beast needs is another sandwich.

[mickmoranis]

I mean like every McDonalds patron ever. Sandwiches are not really the point though. She's more likely protesting the casual disrespect towards women still pervasive in our society, because the last thing that beast needs is another sandwich.

wait i dont get it, ordering a sandwich from an employee that works at mcdonalds is sexist?

I was simply asking if you actually knew anyone in a relationship where the man is like, make me a sandwich woman.

I hadnt thought about it, but I dont.

[Cecily]

I answered you in regards to who doesn't make their own sandwich. But if you want to take that as do I think McDonald's is a tool of a patriarchy and ordering from there is literally violence against women? Absolutely.

In all seriousness, that was a good question and I don't know anyone in a relationship like that. I wouldn't want to associate with that type of person. Have I known people in abusive relationships.. yeah. Quite a few of the women and men in my life.

[Lulz~Sect]

we're outta sandwhiches

[Patriam1066]

https://i.imgur.com/hx7QoJN.jpg

Why don't we just all make our own sandwiches?

I don't think I could afford to make that manatee a sandwich

[Patriam1066]

I answered you in regards to who doesn't make their own sandwich. But if you want to take that as do I think McDonald's is a tool of a patriarchy and ordering from there is literally violence against women? Absolutely.

In all seriousness, that was a good question and I don't know anyone in a relationship like that. I wouldn't want to associate with that type of person. Have I known people in abusive relationships.. yeah. Quite a few of the women and men in my life.

Asking for a sandwich isn't abuse

Why do I have to buy my wife jewelry? That's fucking abuse. It evens out, women just botch at this point in time because our culture is fascinated with anyone who can even somewhat tangentially claim to be a victim. Trust me, being a man and choosing monogamy + raising kids = WAY more of a sacrifice / abuse than a woman shutting up for 5 minutes and making me turkey & swiss

[skarlorn]

My Theory About Why Off-Topic is Currently Irrelevent and Stupid

[Jimjam]

I smell bacon cooking, so I think I may be being made a sandwich for breakfast. I didn't even ask for it!

Is this patriarchy?

edit:

False alarm, it was just a cooked breakfast.

[Cecily]

Asking for a sandwich isn't abuse

Why do I have to buy my wife jewelry? That's fucking abuse. It evens out, women just botch at this point in time because our culture is fascinated with anyone who can even somewhat tangentially claim to be a victim. Trust me, being a man and choosing monogamy + raising kids = WAY more of a sacrifice / abuse than a woman shutting up for 5 minutes and making me turkey & swiss

I was running with the idea of a bad relationship instead of literally suggesting asking for food is abuse, although I'm sure it could be if you're super mean about it. Not really into this conversation anymore, but I just wanted to say thank you for your sacrifice (lol). It's a shame not cheating on your partner and raising your kids is some kind of virtue these days instead of normal behavior.

[AzzarTheGod]

the trans movement is about classic women n im lovin it its bringing the woman back to womanhood whoooooooooooooooo

[maskedmelon]

identity politics and minority activism in America is a perfect example of fabricated struggle to restore some measure of the purpose civilization has denied each of us. If you're able to find purpose in subordinating various groups and then fighting fictitious battles on their behalf, more power to you, but it is no less deluded than worshiping a supernatural bean. Neither is anything more than assignation of one's grief to fictitious sources. it's a retreat to fantasy from the assault of reality.

man has no worth, no use, no purpose other than the one he elects for himself. stop fucking with others and assume responsibility for making yourself happy and if you can't, make someone else happy.

you think women are insufficiently compensated in the workplace? start a business and pay them what you feel is right. You think its wrong to abort unwanted pregnancies? start a non-profit and popularize the idea. You think discrimination leads disproportionate numbers of blacks to prison? Adopt black children. You think people should be compelled to use restrooms based on their sex chromosomes? Build restrooms protected by check stations. you think everyone should be entitled to free and equal healthcare? find a stranger and pay for theirs. you think various races are inferior to one another? write a book.

All of that would require WORK though, REAL sacrifice. No, I think I'll just use my blue pen in this box to compel others to do what I want, or maybe I'll go to church and "give my problems to god," or maybe i'll stand outside places I disagree with holding signs to deny patrons and owners happiness, because at the end of the day it doesn't matter if i accomplish anything other than validating my own meaningless existence with simple low-effort placating of conscience. shared delusion is most comforting delusion.



*sorry, this has nothing to do with sandwiches. i'll try to catch up entirely before forming thoughts in the future.

[Pokesan]

i think i'll have a tomato sandwich for lunch. it will have turkey, cheese, pickles, and mustard, hold the tomatoes.

[Nibblewitz]

Economic unrest dictates social unrest, but economics is boring so we don't chase the causal chain.

[mickmoranis]

Literally work in a office with 90% women and god forbid you correct one of those approAching her chIldless 30s with senior in her title. Micro-aggression central lol

Love this underrated quote cracks me up.

My fave thing about feminism is the average woman loves reality TV shows because they cant get enough of watching people acting disgusting.

But they throw art in the garbage because they think someone is a sexual deviant own their own time in their own bedroom.

[loramin]

You think discrimination leads disproportionate numbers of blacks to prison? Adopt black children.

I think there's something deeply offensive about suggesting that one race can solve another race's problems by adopting their children. Check your history books: we did exactly that to the Native Americans, quite literally taking their children away from them to solve their problems (as savages). It didn't work, but it ruined lots of lives.

Racial issues in America are far too massive and pervasive for a few do gooder white people to solve them.

My fave thing about feminism is the average woman loves reality TV shows because they cant get enough of watching people acting disgusting.

But they throw art in the garbage because they think someone is a sexual deviant own their own time in their own bedroom.

I honestly have no idea what you're saying there: how do you go from terrible reality TV to judging art by the actions of its creator?

[mickmoranis]

I honestly have no idea what you're saying there: how do you go from terrible reality TV to judging art by the actions of its creator?

The point I am trying to make is, LCK has a kink, so his carrier is over, his comedy is done.

However the same group of people that do not approve of LCK will watch people act disgusting in reality tv and not bat an eye.

The bacholar is FAR more sexist than anything LCK has ever done, but we go after the comedian himself because we do not approve of his sexual deviance.

Deviance is all he perpetrated, he had a kink. An overweight bald man, uses his success and hard work to make himself attractive to the opposite sex, he offers a sexual act, they say yes or no, he obliges and understands if they say no and doesn't pressure them... and then we find out, and ruin his carrier.

Yet, we give human scum on reality tv shows a pass, cus its a guilty pleasure.

Sickening society. Low brow society. Garbage society. That's all modern feminism breeds.

[Pokesan]

my bowl cut detector is going nuts

[Lulz~Sect]

https://i.imgur.com/eLup7hW.jpg

[Raavak]

https://i.imgur.com/hx7QoJN.jpg

Why don't we just all make our own sandwiches?
Who the heck her making her so many G D sandwiches?

[loramin]

the same group of people that do not approve of LCK will watch people act disgusting in reality tv and not bat an eye.

A) People on reality TV shows don't whip their dick out.

B) Consent matters: LCK whipped his dick out and started masturbating (something deeply disturbing to watch) in front of women who had absolutely no desire to see such a thing. The worst non-consensual thing people in reality shows do is throw water in each other's faces

C) When reality TV did have a non-consensual "moment" (eg. that Bachelor hot tub drama not too long ago) they nearly shut the whole show down, and if it had been more clear cut they probably would have.

[maskedmelon]

I think there's something deeply offensive about suggesting that one race can solve another race's problems by adopting their children.

i didn't suggest that. the point I was attempting to make was a very simple one: if you believe blacks are hobbled by discrimination, do everything you can to remove discrimination. does that make sense?

there are many children without parents of various races. why not provide a positive environment for one? it is racist to suggest that your ability to help one or another is predicated on the color of either of your skins. i was suggesting that your impatiaty is what would enable you to create an environment free of discrimination. something that is not predicated on the color of one's skin.

Check your history books: we did exactly that to the Native Americans, quite literally taking their children away from them to solve their problems (as savages). It didn't work, but it ruined lots of lives.

mhmm, see above. why not do something to create a positive environment for someone rather than blame others?

Racial issues in America are far too massive and pervasive for a few do gooder white people to solve them.

Indeed, it is far less work to fabricate an insurmountable foe to lament than it is to invest incremental sacrifice in meaningful action.

[maskedmelon]

i think i'll have a tomato sandwich for lunch. it will have turkey, cheese, pickles, and mustard, hold the tomatoes.

how highly commendable of you to openly enjoy a tomato sandwich. there are many who lack the conviction to consume tomato sandwiches ^^

[Jimjam]

If anyone is interested in karma, after joke/bragging about being made cooked breakfast instead of a sandwich this morning, I've spent most the day being ill.

[Pokesan]

guys we're equal, but we should totally steal their children

[loramin]

i didn't suggest that. the point I was attempting to make was a very simple one: if you believe blacks are hobbled by discrimination, do everything you can to remove discrimination. does that make sense?

The way that you suggested one could "do everything ... to remove discrimination" was to adopt African-American children . I strongly disagree that adopting other culture's children is a valid strategy to "better" that culture, and as I pointed out historically that approach has never helped solve discrimination. In fact, quite to the contrary, it has a very ugly and racist history behind it.

... but I do agree that, as long as you don't push failed racist policies as a way to combat racism, your larger point that people should speak less and do more is totally valid :)

[Patriam1066]

I was running with the idea of a bad relationship instead of literally suggesting asking for food is abuse, although I'm sure it could be if you're super mean about it. Not really into this conversation anymore, but I just wanted to say thank you for your sacrifice (lol). It's a shame not cheating on your partner and raising your kids is some kind of virtue these days instead of normal behavior.

It's a huge sacrifice I just want to play EQ all day

[Patriam1066]

my bowl cut detector is going nuts

LOL hahahaha

[mickmoranis]

A) People on reality TV shows don't whip their dick out.

B) Consent matters: LCK whipped his dick out and started masturbating (something deeply disturbing to watch) in front of women who had absolutely no desire to see such a thing. The worst non-consensual thing people in reality shows do is throw water in each other's faces

C) When reality TV did have a non-consensual "moment" (eg. that Bachelor hot tub drama not too long ago) they nearly shut the whole show down, and if it had been more clear cut they probably would have.

A) he asked consent got it, then said OK when he didnt. So what more do you want?
B) this is false.
C) A show about 100 women pleasing a man, is far more supportive of the patriarchy than what one guy who defends social justice in his comedy does in his bedroom with people he has no power over other than their love of what he personally creates, comedy.

I Just want you to see what type of bullshit you are being fed that makes you missunderstand what actually happened in the bedrooms of other people (to illstrate point B)

In a statement released on Friday, the comedian tried to explain why he’d exposed his penis and masturbated in front of several nonconsenting women over a period of several years. “At the time, I said to myself that what I did was okay because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first,” he wrote, claiming he never learned until it was “too late” that power differentials could make those women feel overpowered or coerced.

here you see the same libcuckery where they say it was nonconsenting in teh same sentence where they say he always asked for consent.

Gimi a fuckn break. This shit is hilarious, you are being played hard by 35 year old female cucks who cant have babies anymore cus they spent too much of their youth being fat and blaming men for their problems.

[Lulz~Sect]

hell must be freezing over

i am in moderate agreement with mick

[loramin]

Perhaps he did ask each woman if he could take out his penis before he showed it to them, but he doesn’t say they said yes, because many didn’t.

Asking someone if you can take out your penis—especially if that person is a co-worker, and especially if she has shown absolutely no sexual interest in you, like if she’s just walked into your room with her winter coat and a friend—will often be enough to make her feel threatened. (For C.K., that was probably part of the thrill.)

[maskedmelon]

guys we're equal, but we should totally steal their children

TOTALLY

The way that you suggested one could "do everything ... to remove discrimination" was to adopt African-American children .

one way ^^ and it is the most achievable way for any person to exercise maximal control over the environment for another. it is the most efficient means of eradicating discrimination from an environment for another person. any other arrangement would require more resources for the same or more likely less return.

I strongly disagree that adopting other culture's children is a valid strategy to "better" that culture,

i never argued this ^^ i offered a way to eliminate discrimination for a person. That's it. im sure there are other ways.

how would you suggest an individual could single-handedly achieve the greatest reduction in discrimination for another individual in a free society?

i'll join you in discussing culture once we can put this concept to bed ^^

and as I pointed out historically that approach has never helped solve discrimination. In fact, quite to the contrary, it has a very ugly and racist history behind it.

hold on now ^^

1. you said we did those things to "end their problems (as savages)," not to end discrimination. there is a difference.

2. you were there (and still appear to be) arguing that:

a: abduction of children from families and attempts to "civilize" them

is the same as

b: adopting a child from an orphanage or foster home to provide a positive environment free of discrimination.


how is that the same? Do you think it is better to leave children in orphanages or rotating foster homes? I don't think you do, so what is your issue with adoption?

... but I do agree that, as long as you don't push failed racist policies as a way to combat racism, your larger point that people should speak less and do more is totally valid :)

*high-five*

[mickmoranis]

Perhaps he did ask each woman if he could take out his penis before he showed it to them, but he doesn’t say they said yes, because many didn’t.

Asking someone if you can take out your penis—especially if that person is a co-worker, and especially if she has shown absolutely no sexual interest in you, like if she’s just walked into your room with her winter coat and a friend—will often be enough to make her feel threatened. (For C.K., that was probably part of the thrill.)

this is all fake news. First "many" there are only 5 women that have come out and all of them gave him consent.

second none of them were co workers they were going to his room and he was flirting with them, that's why they went there.

third he did NOT show his privates to anyone who didnt say yes. What part of GETTING CONSENT is the problem here? GET CONSENT, STILL LOSE YOUR JOB?!?! what the hell is the matter with libtards these days?!

If they went there, thinking they could promote their carrier by asking for his help, or if they felt that if they said no to him, he would actively try to destroy their carrier, that is ALL on them. First they shouldn't be hanging out with someone only to further their own professional interests. Second if they think he 'might' harm their carrier by saying no, they didnt give him the opportunity to not do that, so its a fantasy they are creating. and third, they were all hanging out with him at comedy clubs and drinking and flirting afterhours so its a perfectly find place for someone to engage in flirtatious sexual activity by ASKING FOR CONSENT.

What you are saying is that if someone has the same carrier as you, you cannot partake in any sexual discussion without certified legal written consent.

Its absurd.

Lor, please stop reading and regurgitating fake lies about someone while you continue to shame them for things they didnt do that the lies convinced you he did.

[loramin]

2. you were there (and still appear to be) arguing that:

a: abduction of children from families and attempts to "civilize" them

is the same as

b: adopting a child from an orphanage or foster home to provide a positive environment free of discrimination.

Individual adoption of kids of any ethnicity is (obviously) a good thing. But if we're talking about fighting discrimination we're not talking about individual adoptions; by definition we have to be talking about mass adoption, because no one thinks adopting a single minority kid will solve anything. And as I said before, large scale adoptions to integrate minorities into society (which is what we're talking about in both the Native-American and African-American cases) has an ugly and racist history.

But there's also a larger issue to the whole thing, and that's the assumption that the problem is the minorities. If we could only adopt and teach these black children to act like white children then the problem would be solved! Except a black adopted child is going to face the exact same discrimination for the color of their skin as a white child (only they'll have the added awkwardness of parents who don't share that with them).

So if mass (or individual) adoptions won't fight racism ...
how would you suggest an individual could single-handedly achieve the greatest reduction in discrimination for another individual in a free society?

How about writing a book, movie, or TV show where the black (or any minority) character is not defined by their race? Like where a main character is black, but they're not The Black Panther, they're not the villain in Luke Cage, there's just a person who happens to be black. Or where the hot dog vendor, x-ray technician, or whatever side role is black, and their race is completely irrelevant (eg. it's not in a crime show set in Baltimore).

Or write one where the African-American character is a criminal, but the viewer empathizes with their actions and see them as a result of their circumstances (the way you do with, for instance, the main character in Slumdog Millionaire) rather than as a consequence of their skin color.

Or how about making a commercial where the black kid isn't just the "token black kid", they actually have a central role which has nothing to do with being "urban" or black?

Or what about fighting racist in the courts? On average blacks are convicted and given longer sentences than white people (for equal crimes). An individual lawyer or judge could make a huge impact not just in their own courtroom, but by convincing their peers to confront their latent racism and how it impacts their legal decisions.

Or if you're a cop, fighting back against the stereotypes within your fellow law enforcement officers that blacks are dangerous criminals and/or deserve less rights.

Or if you work for a pharmaceutical company make band-aids for all skin colors, not just "white".

Or if ...

I could go on but hopefully you get the point: the solution to solving racism isn't to adopt kids who will just face that racism (along with the awkwardness of having parents who don't), it's to influence your fellow humans to not be racist.

[maskedmelon]

this is all fake news. First "many" there are only 5 women that have come out and all of them gave him consent.

second none of them were co workers they were going to his room and he was flirting with them, that's why they went there.

third he did NOT show his privates to anyone who didnt say yes. What part of GETTING CONSENT is the problem here? GET CONSENT, STILL LOSE YOUR JOB?!?! what the hell is the matter with libtards these days?!

If they went there, thinking they could promote their carrier by asking for his help, or if they felt that if they said no to him, he would actively try to destroy their carrier, that is ALL on them. First they shouldn't be hanging out with someone only to further their own professional interests. Second if they think he 'might' harm their carrier by saying no, they didnt give him the opportunity to not do that, so its a fantasy they are creating. and third, they were all hanging out with him at comedy clubs and drinking and flirting afterhours so its a perfectly find place for someone to engage in flirtatious sexual activity by ASKING FOR CONSENT.

What you are saying is that if someone has the same carrier as you, you cannot partake in any sexual discussion without certified legal written consent.

Its absurd.

Lor, please stop reading and regurgitating fake lies about someone while you continue to shame them for things they didnt do that the lies convinced you he did.

1. extracting and stimulating genitals in ordinary conversation is unusual and may be considered offensive by some.

2. asking for consent in sexual encounters is unusual.

3. opening sexual encounters by combining 1 & 2 is unusual and likely to cause offense.


Yeah, he didn't touch them and he asked permission, but the behavior is just out there and not likely acceptable to most people. And can toooootally be perceived as threatening, especially if you are smaller and/or passive/submissive. i strongly doubt he was blushing or smiling shyly as he did it either.

LCK brandished his penis menacingly at a number of women and is now paying the price for his unsolicited enthusiasm.

[loramin]

he would actively try to destroy their carrier

Sorry that typo was too amusing not to highlight (I have images of LCK in a bomber attacking either an aircraft carrier or a mobile phone company now).

If they went there, thinking they could promote their carrier by asking for his help, or if they felt that if they said no to him, he would actively try to destroy their carrier, that is ALL on them. First they shouldn't be hanging out with someone only to further their own professional interests. Second if they think he 'might' harm their carrier by saying no, they didnt give him the opportunity to not do that, so its a fantasy they are creating. and third, they were all hanging out with him at comedy clubs and drinking and flirting afterhours so its a perfectly find place for someone to engage in flirtatious sexual activity by ASKING FOR CONSENT.

Blaming the victim is an essential part of human nature: it's hard-wired in to us. If we hear that something bad happened to someone it causes us stress, because we think "that bad thing could happen to me!" But our brains don't like feeling that way, so they find ways to not have to worry. If you think "well that person did something to deserve whatever horrible thing happened to them" then you can think "well I wouldn't do that thing they did, so I don't have to worry" ... and you don't have to do something painful like empathize with the victim and imagine the horrifying experience they had.

... but it's wrong. The victim is the victim, and they've been wronged by someone. Whipping out your dick in front of your co-workers when they've "shown absolutely no sexual interest in you, like if she’s just walked into your room with her winter coat and a friend—" is wrong. It's not the victim's fault that LCK whipped out his dick, it's LCK's: it's that simple.

[Jimjam]

Words are the last thing i want to put in to your mouth, MM, but the reductio ad absurdium there is that men are fuck boys to be used at a womans whim, otherwise no one would ever makies the babies.

I'm aware of logical phalluses

[Lulz~Sect]

every woman that ever came and partied with us in our hotel room post 4AM knew what was up and DTF and i'm not even famous

jus sayin

[JurisDictum]

this is all fake news. First "many" there are only 5 women that have come out and all of them gave him consent.

second none of them were co workers they were going to his room and he was flirting with them, that's why they went there.

third he did NOT show his privates to anyone who didnt say yes. What part of GETTING CONSENT is the problem here? GET CONSENT, STILL LOSE YOUR JOB?!?! what the hell is the matter with libtards these days?!

If they went there, thinking they could promote their carrier by asking for his help, or if they felt that if they said no to him, he would actively try to destroy their carrier, that is ALL on them. First they shouldn't be hanging out with someone only to further their own professional interests. Second if they think he 'might' harm their carrier by saying no, they didnt give him the opportunity to not do that, so its a fantasy they are creating. and third, they were all hanging out with him at comedy clubs and drinking and flirting afterhours so its a perfectly find place for someone to engage in flirtatious sexual activity by ASKING FOR CONSENT.

What you are saying is that if someone has the same carrier as you, you cannot partake in any sexual discussion without certified legal written consent.

Its absurd.

Lor, please stop reading and regurgitating fake lies about someone while you continue to shame them for things they didnt do that the lies convinced you he did.

Feminism's problem with Louis C.K. is that he used career opportunity to leverage sex acts. Even though nothing illegal took place, there was a power imbalance caused by the status of Louis C.K. and the opportunity he represented for those young women.

Notice: none this actually has much to do with Men and Women. You have to abstract to a point where you say something like: "Men frequently do this specific thing and usually target women." But the actual problem with what is going on is entirely economic.

Young good looking people are approached for sex often. The implied exchange is career development for sex. Keep in mind -- lots of gay (or sometimes straight) men are approached for sex in exchange career potential...weird how all the sudden the exact same issue is completely different in the eyes of the feminist.

It's about class. And that class is economic class not a male/female dichotomy.

Now all that being said. It's BS that C.K is getting all the flak for something men have done for thousands of years -- like he's doing something uniquely bad that everyone agreed was wrong for a long time. But he's being a good sport about it.

Edit: All the effort and ideas around the concept of "protecting a girls reputation" BTW...are completely sex-negative slut shaming style statements. The idea that your reputation is now bad because you slept with Louis C.K. as a young comedian doesn't need to be encouraged by feminists IMO.

[Pokesan]

LCK is on record(repeatedly) as having a humiliation fetish. he's loving every second of this.

[Jimjam]

LCK is on record(repeatedly) as having a humiliation fetish. he's loving every second of this.

I can imagine it now.

Hey lady, may I show you my penis so you can whistleblow me? That would be so hot.

[loramin]

It's about class. And that class is economic class not a male/female dichotomy.

False. How many of these issues have you heard about with women as the antagonists? This is transparently, obviously, a male problem.

Now it's true that men can absolutely be a victim of this shit, but it's obviously on a different scale. Gay men are what, 10%? 15%? of the male population? That means women experience it 85% more (yes I know that's not technically correct, but I'm too lazy to do the proper math).

And I'm not saying that women don't have issues: they absolutely do. I'm just saying mass sexual harassment/assault isn't one of them.

Now all that being said. It's BS that C.K is getting all the flak for something men have done for thousands of years -- like he's doing something uniquely bad that everyone agreed was wrong for a long time. But he's being a good sport about it.

Sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination that violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964

This stuff has been wrong, in a legal sense, going back over 50 years: it's not like Weinstein and Louise CK thought what they were doing was acceptable and then "shit it's the 2000's, suddenly everything I thought was ok is illegal!" Admittedly those laws weren't enforced as strongly as they are now, but that doesn't mean it's ever been ok to break them.

But that being said, I have a certain degree of sympathy for this opinion, although I have it more for Al Franken than Louis CK. Not because he's a democrat (fuck that John Conyers guy), but because at worst he touched a few women inappropriately. That's 100% not ok and the dude deserves a whole lot of flak for it ... but people like him who just did something inappropriate for a few seconds are getting lumped in with people like Weinstein who not only did what Franken did about a thousand times, but also flat out raped women.

Same thing to a lesser extent for LCK: whipping out your dick is wrong, and I think it's wrong on a whole different level from briefly touching someone's private parts ... but it's also on a whole different level from rapists or mass offenders (as bad as LCK was he's only got what 5 accusers? compared to Weinstein's 500?).

Edit: All the effort and ideas around the concept of "protecting a girls reputation" BTW...are completely sex-negative slut shaming style statements.

Amen! Historically women were considered property, and the only way that property was worth anything was if a man could use it to get a child of their bloodline. Since they didn't have DNA testing the only way you could be "certain" that the kid was your's was to fuck a virgin (although we now know that the hymen doesn't actually work that way and that many/most women break it before their first intercourse).

If you don't believe women are property then you shouldn't shame them for having sex.

[loramin]

I can imagine it now.

Hey lady, may I show you my penis so you can whistleblow me? That would be so hot.

I read somewhere that for exhibitionists it's all about getting the reaction from their victim, and that the worst thing you can do to them is completely ignore them and not react. Of course, even if you know that, most people aren't ok with men running around showing their penises in public places, so reaction is almost unavoidable

[mickmoranis]

Feminism's problem with Louis C.K. is that he used career opportunity to leverage sex acts. Even though nothing illegal took place, there was a power imbalance caused by the status of Louis C.K. and the opportunity he represented for those young women.

Notice: none this actually has much to do with Men and Women. You have to abstract to a point where you say something like: "Men frequently do this specific thing and usually target women." But the actual problem with what is going on is entirely economic.

Young good looking people are approached for sex often. The implied exchange is career development for sex. Keep in mind -- lots of gay (or sometimes straight) men are approached for sex in exchange career potential...weird how all the sudden the exact same issue is completely different in the eyes of the feminist.

It's about class. And that class is economic class not a male/female dichotomy.

Now all that being said. It's BS that C.K is getting all the flak for something men have done for thousands of years -- like he's doing something uniquely bad that everyone agreed was wrong for a long time. But he's being a good sport about it.

He never used career opportunity to leverage sex acts.

He simply used his appeal as a successful comedian to make himself more attractive to the opposite sex.

The reason there is outrage is because america is a prude nation and they do not approve of his kink.

They misinterpret this fear of sex, as him using his power to force women or coerce them into doing something they do not want to do.

But he always asked.

He always understood when they said no.

He gave them no pressure.

He literally behaved exactly the way anyone should ever hope anyone in a position of power should behave. The fembotts have been yelling about consent for years, now they get it, and they STILL blame the white male.

The victims are to blame here. (IMPORTANT NOTE: THEY WERE NOT VICTIMS)

You simply cannot blame LCK for using his attractive qualities, his success, to cloud the fact that he is a fat bald guy, to look attractive to the opposite sex.

What we are saying when we say LCK is in the wrong is:

1. deviant sexual behavior is unacceptable.
2. that handsome men can hit on women, but ugly men cannot even use their success in their field of work to look attractive towards women.

The simple fact is, he used nothing but his qualities as a human, to behave as one. He did not drug them, they were not minors, they simply were also comedians. Comedy is a field where nepotism does not exist by the way.

You cannot ask for more appropriate behavior. LCK was not their boss, LCK was not an icon, LCK was just a man they admired because as a comedian, he was a good one.

But fuck the guy who is attractive because of his mind right? If he had a sexy body, then it'd be ok for him to use his blessings to get women to have sex with him.

[loramin]

Genuine question Mick: what are your values? Somewhere in your brain there's a thought process "I should defend the guy who whips his dick out unwantedly in front of co-workers" ... even though I'm guessing you don't whip your dick out inappropriately in front of people, and I'm guessing that if your mom or sister told you a story about a guy at their work even asking "can I pull my dick out" you'd be upset.

So what's so important in your values system that you personally find it so important to defend a dude whipping his dick out?

The victims are to blame here. (IMPORTANT NOTE: THEY WERE NOT VICTIMS)

You simply cannot blame LCK for using his attractive qualities, his success, to cloud the fact that he is a fat bald guy, to look attractive to the opposite sex.

Honestly Mick, who do you think these women are? Like you genuinely believe they were attracted to LCK, wanted him to pull his dick out (even though they clearly didn't want to have sex with him because ... they didn't, despite his obvious interest), and then collectively many years later all just decided to get upset over something they were previously ok with? Really?

[mickmoranis]

False. How many of these issues have you heard about with women as the antagonists?

This is called specious reasoning. It is also VERY not feminist of you to say that. Feminism is about equality, and equality is about solving both men and womens issues.

1. men do not report sexual harrasment for a multitude of reasons, one of which being men are as oppressed as woman are in today's society, especially when sharing this type of info.
2. men are constantly at the butt of the assault because of the social narrative being exactly that, a narrative.
3. men commit suicide at a drastically higher rate because of pressure at the work place.
4. that is because of the same type of social stigma that people say women are the only victim of, victim blaming etc.
5. men have it just as hard as women, but that social stigma, the bullshit you're spinning right here, is the real problem.

Incel's are people and they are trampled on all the fucking time, just ask skarlorn.

men have it just as bad as women, its just right now its popular to complain in favor of women or because you're a women.

This is earth dude, its a tough life. Men eat the bullet and do the work. Women and children (adult babies aka libcucks) cry about it. That's why you THINK that men are never the victim and that women are under some sort of attack.

You're just being fooled man. Manipulated, fooled and played.

[mickmoranis]

Honestly Mick, who do you think these women are? Like you genuinely believe they were attracted to LCK, wanted him to pull his dick out (even though they clearly didn't want to have sex with him because ... they didn't, despite his obvious interest), and then collectively many years later all just decided to get upset over something they were previously ok with? Really?

all 5 of the women were failed comedians that were not able to make it in the industry because they were not funny and absolutly if you know anything about comedians, they have groopies just like musicians have.

You seriously think a groopie is going to have rational behavior? You know what type of behavior a groopie is going to have? they likely to be a fembott, they are likely to try to get attention, they are likely going to seek revenge.

[JurisDictum]

What I think is going on here is that those women didn't make it, know they are not going to (unless maybe they get a hit of fame off this), and are mad about compromising themselves.

That's ok from my perspective. Them being mad about it. But their anger is misplaced in men and their sexuality. Mick points out -- this is what men do. They try to impress women and get them to consent to sex with them. That's all he did.

So whats the real problem here?

The problem is those women felt like they had to engage in sexual activity with him to gain economic security. Those women feel this way because of how our economy works. It's who you know and there is no generous welfare state waiting for you if you fuck up.

The other problem is that these women blame the god damn patriarchy instead of the economy. Feminists have a big drum circle about how of rich men exploit women (poor/middle women, not rich women) -- and guys get pissed off that LCK was just trying to get laid and women are pissed at him for it.

And so, current internet feminism proves not only irrelevant here -- but destructive to the socialist cause. Divide and conquer. Republicans on one side, Democrats on the other.

[mickmoranis]

Genuine question Mick: what are your values? Somewhere in your brain there's a thought process "I should defend the guy who whips his dick out unwantedly in front of co-workers"

Ill answer your genuine questions:

No, I am not defending a guy who whiped his dick out unwarntedly infront of co-workers. I am defending the guy that YOU are LYING about doing that. Who asked for consent from random groopies who apreciated his success and he thought were atractive and thought they might be into having sex with him, which is perfectly normal human behavior.

... even though I'm guessing you don't whip your dick out inappropriately in front of people, and I'm guessing that if your mom or sister told you a story about a guy at their work even asking "can I pull my dick out" you'd be upset.

Sure, but again, we're not talking about a guy at work doing that.

My value is this: I want people to be held accountable for their actions, and what you have made abundantly clear is you dont even know what actually happened and you're spreading lies about what did, and using that to make a social stance and make claims that are not true about the state of sexism in America.

I want equality, and I want us to be aware that we have it, and I want people who say that we dont to be called out for the charlatans they are.

Im all for us fixing problems but right now we are creating new ones, where we didnt even fucking have them, UNDER THE LIE that we are trying to solve the problems in society.

I see a nation of cucks, being played by other people people. It didnt bother me when it was just rhetoric, but now you're actively attacking my way of life, removing things that I like, like netflix comedy specials by LCK on some holy roller quest because you're upset that LCK has sex in a wierd way.

Jesus christ its pathetic, its like some puritanical christian shit, only its the fucking atheists that are trying to take away our sexual identy this time.

[loramin]

Feminism is about equality, and equality is about solving both men and womens issues.

There is nothing equal about men having more power in our society (and having had even more power historically). There's nothing equal about one gender facing harrassment, abuse, and flat out rape at rates 10x men.

1. men do not report sexual harrasment for a multitude of reasons, one of which being men are as oppressed as woman are in today's society, especially when sharing this type of info.
Complete bullshit. Even if I bought that men "are as oppressed" (which is demonstrably false), if women were harrassing/abusing/raping men at even half the levels that men do we'd hear about at least one case. But we don't: every last one of the many, many news stories from the past year have been about male attackers. The only female I can even think of is that one teacher who slept with her students, and again there are like 10x more of those stories involving men (they just don't make the national news).

As for the rest of your post, men certainly suffer from our current gender roles too. The suicide rate is a perfect example of this: there's a genuine cost to us always being told "boys don't cry" "real men don't act like that", etc. Making our society more equal absolutely means addressing the problems with our society's definition of the male gender role ... but that does not mean men and women are equal.

Again, when you face 10x (or even just 1x) of the rate of harrasment/abuse/rape that women face then you can say that women aren't oppressed. Personally I'm a big fan of not being raped myself, and I'd really like it if the 1/3rd-1/4th of the female population that will get raped in their lifetime could feel the same.

[mickmoranis]

Lor, I cannot convince you. You are clouded by emotion and you have only posted falseism about what happened to LCK

You have made it abundantly clear that the narritive is what fuels your decision making and I am sorry to say that we just disagree. You can go ahead thinking that women are under attack. But to reply to juris and you in the same thread:

And so, current internet feminism proves not only irrelevant here -- but destructive to the socialist cause. Divide and conquer. Republicans on one side, Democrats on the other.

I can tell you this much, if this bullshit doesn't change in the next 3 years, by the time we have another election, everyone's going to vote for anyone who isnt a fucking fembott and you can bet the farm that trump will win again.

I mean seriously, now John Lasseter is taking a leave of absence. Shrek 3 and Emoji the animated movies only from now on, cus why? CUS JOHN HUGGED EVERYONE and some (like 4) women took that as a sexual advance.

Again, when you face 10x (or even just 1x) of the rate of harrasment/abuse/rape that women face then you can say that women aren't oppressed. Personally I'm a big fan of not being raped myself, and I'd really like it if the 1/3rd-1/4th of the female population that will get raped in their lifetime could feel the same.



Oh by the way, so far over half the allegations of sexual harassment in hollywood are from MALE victims. So take your bullshit lies and rhetoric and shove it up your polarbear hat.

[Lulz~Sect]

Excuse me miss, m-m-may I touch your genitals and spit in your mouth?
-Courting a woman in 2018

[loramin]

Lor, I cannot convince you. You are clouded by emotion and you have only posted falseism about what happened to LCK

I'm actually very easily swayed by logic, but your posts tend to be emotional and rely on huge logical "leaps". Come at me with some logic man!

Oh by the way, so far over half the allegations of sexual harassment in hollywood are from MALE victims. So take your bullshit lies and rhetoric and shove it up your polarbear hat.

Pics or it didn't happen. Show me some proof that "over half the allegations of sexual harassment in hollywood are from MALE victims".

Excuse me miss, m-m-may I touch your genitals and spit in your mouth?
-Courting a woman in 2018

I'm not sure that would make the best pickup line, but for some women it just might work ;)

[mickmoranis]

loramin, each accusation you have made I have shown you it is false.

You seriously going to sit there and not pretend that gay people have been the greater victim in Hollywood from sexual deviance? Fuck dude, they cant even fucking marry. Jesus Christ you libtards are insane.

[Pokesan]

focus mick. you're clearly passionate but go bananas when disagreed with. elaborate on the falseness of the accusations in specific details. do not take the train to crazytown and yell about liberals.

:)

[loramin]

loramin, each accusation you have made I have shown you it is false.

You seriously going to sit there and not pretend that gay people have been the greater victim in Hollywood from sexual deviance? Fuck dude, they cant even fucking marry. Jesus Christ you libtards are insane.

You are clouded by emotion ...
Oh by the way, so far over half the allegations of sexual harassment in hollywood are from MALE victims. So take your bullshit lies and rhetoric and shove it up your polarbear hat.

You defended "so far over half the allegations of sexual harassment in hollywood are from MALE victims" with "gay people have been the greater victim in Hollywood from sexual deviance". They're completely different statements (and the latter certainly doesn't provide any proof of the former).

C'mon man, prove that the words you said are true: prove that "over half the allegations of sexual harassment in hollywood are from MALE victims"!

[mickmoranis]

oh im sorry are gay men not males?

so far, rob schider terrie cruise, corey feldmen, the men kevin spacy got in trouble over, thats like 15 right there.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/604140/

here we see that 90% of male victims do not report it.

Im not a fucking library, use google next time and explore the wonder of opening your mind.

[maskedmelon]

Words are the last thing i want to put in to your mouth, MM, but the reductio ad absurdium there is that men are fuck boys to be used at a womans whim, otherwise no one would ever makies the babies.

I'm aware of logical phalluses

omgosh, just realized what happened here (o^^o) it's okay though... you are a fun forums poster, so i won't object.


peh- ,*spits on the forum floor and flashes two thumbs up*

[mickmoranis]

do not take the train to crazytown and yell about liberals.

:)

but I like taking the train to crazytown and yelling about libearls :mad::(

[maskedmelon]

Individual adoption of kids of any ethnicity is (obviously) a good thing. But if we're talking about fighting discrimination we're not talking about individual adoptions; by definition we have to be talking about mass adoption, because no one thinks adopting a single minority kid will solve anything.

It will for that single minority kid, but it's a tremendous investment so of course nobody wants to do that because it is easier to battle the illusory demon with words than it is to actually do something.

And as I said before, large scale adoptions to integrate minorities into society (which is what we're talking about in both the Native-American and African-American cases) has an ugly and racist history.

But there's also a larger issue to the whole thing, and that's the assumption that the problem is the minorities.

no, it's not. that has nothing to do with my argument. that assumption has no part in it. my argument is that you, whoever you are (or anyone else for that matter), whether you are brown or pink or black or yellow or red, you as a parent have absolute authority over your child and their environment (whether they are brown or pink or black or yellow or red) and with that control of their environment, you (whether your are brown or pink or black or yellow or red) can exclude discrimination from that environment. That is the point. It has nothing to do with racism or colors of people or anything else. you have that capacity as a parent. THAT is the point.

Now, if you believe that discrimination is an issue, you can exclude it from the environment of your children, THEREFORE you can eliminate roughly two decades (possibly much more) of discrimination for an individual by adopting them as a child.


If we could only adopt and teach these black children to act like white children then the problem would be solved!

nobody has argued this except you just now, here in this post.

Except a black adopted child is going to face the exact same discrimination for the color of their skin as a white child (only they'll have the added awkwardness of parents who don't share that with them).

So if mass (or individual) adoptions won't fight racism ...


How about writing a book, movie, or TV show where the black (or any minority) character is not defined by their race? Like where a main character is black, but they're not The Black Panther, they're not the villain in Luke Cage, there's just a person who happens to be black. Or where the hot dog vendor, x-ray technician, or whatever side role is black, and their race is completely irrelevant (eg. it's not in a crime show set in Baltimore).

Or write one where the African-American character is a criminal, but the viewer empathizes with their actions and see them as a result of their circumstances (the way you do with, for instance, the main character in Slumdog Millionaire) rather than as a consequence of their skin color.

Or how about making a commercial where the black kid isn't just the "token black kid", they actually have a central role which has nothing to do with being "urban" or black?

Or what about fighting racist in the courts? On average blacks are convicted and given longer sentences than white people (for equal crimes). An individual lawyer or judge could make a huge impact not just in their own courtroom, but by convincing their peers to confront their latent racism and how it impacts their legal decisions.

Or if you're a cop, fighting back against the stereotypes within your fellow law enforcement officers that blacks are dangerous criminals and/or deserve less rights.

Or if you work for a pharmaceutical company make band-aids for all skin colors, not just "white".

Or if ...


all excellent examples of effortless platitudes that accomplish nothing, but foster a sense of purpose in the actor all the same :c

in a free society (one which respects individual liberties and private property) you can't change people, but you can change sections of the environment.

I could go on but hopefully you get the point: the solution to solving racism isn't to adopt kids who will just face that racism (along with the awkwardness of having parents who don't), it's to influence your fellow humans to not be racist.

how terribly convenient! change for one is of no value, so let us continue painting the window until the night is no more.

i get your point and it makes me very sad, because it speaks to my original point that nobody is willing to face reality for a better tomorrow. we take refuge in our delusions until it's finally over and we can rest.

[loramin]

all excellent examples of effortless platitudes that accomplish nothing, but foster a sense of purpose in the actor all the same :c

in a free society (one which respects individual liberties and private property) you can't change people, but you can change sections of the environment.



how terribly convenient! change for one is of no value, so let us continue painting the window until the night is no more.

When someone says "X is hard" a lot of people hear "X is impossible, and/or Y is easier". But it doesn't matter if Y is easier, if it doesn't do anything. It may suck, but sometimes you have to do the hard thing to get what you want

Look at the history of social movements. Look at how apartheid South Africa lost the "apartheid" part. Look at how colonized people all over the globe threw out their imperial powers. Look at how minorities like the Irish, Scottish, and Irish became equal to "real Americans". Look at all the progress Asian-Americans, African-Americans, Native-Americans, etc. have made in the last 200 years.

None of that came from adoptions. You can't point me to a single marginalized people anywhere in history who lost their marginalized status by adopting or being adopted. It never happened.

What did happen is lots of "thought leaders" worked very hard, incredibly hard, to change the thoughts of people. Authors, actors, judges, cops, etc. all played a part in changing perceptions. It's 100% possible: the idea of "Irish rights" is pretty much laughable now, but that's only because of the incredible hard work their advocates did ... not because of adoptions.

[loramin]

Mick your memory doesn't seem to be so good, so here's a quick recap:

How many of these issues have you heard about with women as the antagonists? This is transparently, obviously, a male problem.

Oh by the way, so far over half the allegations of sexual harassment in hollywood are from MALE victims. So take your bullshit lies and rhetoric and shove it up your polarbear hat.

You said I was making "bullshit lies", and made a bullshit lie yourself in the process, so I called you out on it and asked for proof.

so far, rob schider terrie cruise, corey feldmen, the men kevin spacy got in trouble over, thats like 15 right there.

Yes, men are getting in trouble. That was actually my original point. You were supposed to be providing evidence of what you said, that they "are from MALE victims".

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/604140/

here we see that 90% of male victims do not report it.

Im not a fucking library, use google next time and explore the wonder of opening your mind.

You linked an article about the military. Well duh, there are a lot more men in the military than women, so that's obviously going to skew who gets assaulted. But we were never talking about the military, we were talking about Hollywood; again your words (the stuff you're supposed to prove is not bullshit):

Oh by the way, so far over half the allegations of sexual harassment in hollywood are from MALE victims.

[Pokesan]

the idea of "Irish rights" is pretty much laughable now, but that's only because of the incredible hard work their advocates did ... not because of adoptions.

actually, prohibition.

[AzzarTheGod]

actually, prohibition.

yaw. they came up off liquor mostly. JFK's father prime example.

admitted into aristocracy based on sheer net worth + gentlemanly american military history + making tons of money. Even the elites want to "know a guy, who knows a guy". That was the Irish booze brothers.

they wanted the street cred cosign some of these nuevo rich irish guys could provide. the irish became the go-to "get close to dangerous people, but still extremely safe" ala Cuba. Cuba before the revolution was a place where aristocrats could get close to danger without being in danger.

Irish "businessmen" were the same device. Get close to the danger without being in danger. a valuable social commodity. a white-washing of crime, if you will. everyone knows slap a white face on it repackage it and it sells.

[maskedmelon]

When someone says "X is hard" a lot of people hear "X is impossible, and/or Y is easier". But it doesn't matter if Y is easier, if it doesn't do anything. It may suck, but sometimes you have to do the hard thing to get what you want

Look at the history of social movements. Look at how apartheid South Africa lost the "apartheid" part. Look at how colonized people all over the globe threw out their imperial powers. Look at how minorities like the Irish, Scottish, and Irish became equal to "real Americans". Look at all the progress Asian-Americans, African-Americans, Native-Americans, etc. have made in the last 200 years.

None of that came from adoptions. You can't point me to a single marginalized people anywhere in history who lost their marginalized status by adopting or being adopted. It never happened.

What did happen is lots of "thought leaders" worked very hard, incredibly hard, to change the thoughts of people. Authors, actors, judges, cops, etc. all played a part in changing perceptions. It's 100% possible: the idea of "Irish rights" is pretty much laughable now, but that's only because of the incredible hard work their advocates did ... not because of adoptions.

serious question, do you genuinely not understand my argument or are you purposely misconstruing it? i only ask because you continue to present counterarguments unrelated to my argument.

ill indulge whatever other topic you want from mass adoptions to cleans the world of racism to assimilation of immigrant populations if we can actually discuss the original topic. if not, I'll drop it ^^

[mickmoranis]

FINE i exaggerated but you;ve been exaggerating about the plight of women this whole thread and straight up lying about what it is that LCK did which makes you more of a liar than ME.

Also 90% of men dont report sexual harrasment accross the board but if you try to find info about it all you see are thousands of links about hollywood cucks because all this is, is a pop media sensation and means nothing and you've ruined film, movies, tv and surely will ruin music (cus gasp, all muscians are rapists) so enjoy your comedy made up of women who arent funny but you feel proud of yourself for watching because some how youre making the world a better place.

: pouty face :

[mickmoranis]

Also if media makes people sexist, video games make people violent.

ya morans.

[mickmoranis]

also thanks for reading my posts lor and clicking the link but why of all the shit I said, why did the only thing that resonated with you was the ONE falsehood exaguration I threw out there and I had to tell you 9 times that LCK did not do anything wrong, and gave you many examples about why he wasnt and you still say he did something to nonconsenting employees?

THey were consenting adults who simply admired his ability to do comedy and he held no power over them besides them finding him atractive.

Thats all he had, thats the only power he had, he was atractive to them. But since its not physical, its somehow wrong?!?!

god damn society.

cant even handle a kink.

sad.

[AzzarTheGod]

dunk crew ready to regulate in this thread discussion closed

[loramin]

also thanks for reading my posts lor and clicking the link but why of all the shit I said, why did the only thing that resonated with you was the ONE falsehood exaguration I threw out there and I had to tell you 9 times that LCK did not do anything wrong, and gave you many examples about why he wasnt and you still say he did something to nonconsenting employees?

THey were consenting adults who simply admired his ability to do comedy and he held no power over them besides them finding him atractive.

Thats all he had, thats the only power he had, he was atractive to them. But since its not physical, its somehow wrong?!?!

I picked on it because it was very clearly false; no other reason.

And you seem to have missed the post where I addressed exactly what your talking about. First off, as I said it's just not ok to whip out your penis in front of your co-workers unless they have said something sexual first. I don't understand how you can possibly think that's ok. If your wife/sister/mother came in to work one day and her co-worker asked "hey can I whip out my penis" would you feel that's acceptable behavior?

Second, again as I said before:
Honestly Mick, who do you think these women are? Like you genuinely believe they were attracted to LCK, wanted him to pull his dick out (even though they clearly didn't want to have sex with him because ... they didn't, despite his obvious interest), and then collectively many years later all just decided to get upset over something they were previously ok with? Really?

[hyejin]

Women have operated with advantage in every American geography or economy of even remote desirability for the full duration of the millenial's life. Back to humanism!

[loramin]

serious question, do you genuinely not understand my argument or are you purposely misconstruing it? i only ask because you continue to present counterarguments unrelated to my argument.

"Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence." Honestly I thought my posts did respond to your's.

ill indulge whatever other topic you want from mass adoptions to cleans the world of racism to assimilation of immigrant populations if we can actually discuss the original topic. if not, I'll drop it ^^

Did you not say:

You think discrimination leads disproportionate numbers of blacks to prison? Adopt black children

er ... well ... I guess not, because now that post has been edited to instead say:
you think various races are inferior to one another? write a book.

... which I certainly can't disagree with.

But look, it's already a long thread, so if you just clarify what your "original topic" was, to eliminate any confusion, then I promise I'll do my best to honestly respond to it.

[loramin]

Women have operated with advantage in every American geography or economy of even remote desirability for the full duration of the millenial's life. Back to humanism!

1/3rd-1/4th of all women (millennial or otherwise) will be raped in their life, whereas for men it's something like 1/10th: how is getting raped a lot more an advantage?

[mickmoranis]

so far weve learned that john lasseter hugging you is rape, or a friend asking to masterbate infront of you, is rape.

So I think those numbers are bullshit.

Lor, LCK DID NOT WIP HIS DICK OUT when are you going to get that through your polarbear head?

He asked, "hey, would it be possible, idk, if maybe, do you think, it'd be cool if i.. masterbated infront of you?"

which is OK TO ASK a woman at a bar youve been hanging out drinking with, that goes back to your fucking room with you.

And to be clear, that is what those women were: women, who were also comedians, didnt work with him, hanging out a bar, with someone they thought was cool, drinking.

If they said, no he said, OK and ended it there.

Do you get it yet? It is the definition of consent.

He had no ability to give people work, the same way if I met another person who did the same job as I did at a bar would. For christ sakes women and feminists, have no clue how the world works, which is why they get payed less... not because they are a women.. its because you and peope like them are fucking retards that accept being payed less, cus they have NO IDEA how to work in any environment outside of a part time job.

Next time you see a fesminst post on your facebook feed, ask yourself, what type of job does that person have? My guess is a very low paying one, or none at all.

[maskedmelon]

"Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence." Honestly I thought my posts did respond to your's.



Did you not say:



er ... well ... I guess not, because now that post has been edited to instead say:


... which is what I was arguing (that the best way to fight discrimination is through thought leadership).

However I promise that if you tell me which point I'm not responding to (and then don't change it) I'll do my best to honestly respond to it.

I didn't change it, it's still there with both of those excerpts back on page 4, post 39:

identity politics and minority activism in America is a perfect example of fabricated struggle to restore some measure of the purpose civilization has denied each of us. If you're able to find purpose in subordinating various groups and then fighting fictitious battles on their behalf, more power to you, but it is no less deluded than worshiping a supernatural bean. Neither is anything more than assignation of one's grief to fictitious sources. it's a retreat to fantasy from the assault of reality.

man has no worth, no use, no purpose other than the one he elects for himself. stop fucking with others and assume responsibility for making yourself happy and if you can't, make someone else happy.

you think women are insufficiently compensated in the workplace? start a business and pay them what you feel is right. You think its wrong to abort unwanted pregnancies? start a non-profit and popularize the idea. You think discrimination leads disproportionate numbers of blacks to prison? Adopt black children. You think people should be compelled to use restrooms based on their sex chromosomes? Build restrooms protected by check stations. you think everyone should be entitled to free and equal healthcare? find a stranger and pay for theirs. you think various races are inferior to one another? write a book.

All of that would require WORK though, REAL sacrifice. No, I think I'll just use my blue pen in this box to compel others to do what I want, or maybe I'll go to church and "give my problems to god," or maybe i'll stand outside places I disagree with holding signs to deny patrons and owners happiness, because at the end of the day it doesn't matter if i accomplish anything other than validating my own meaningless existence with simple low-effort placating of conscience. shared delusion is most comforting delusion.



*sorry, this has nothing to do with sandwiches. i'll try to catch up entirely before forming thoughts in the future.

perhaps this sheds some light on why, I haven't been making sense ^.~

In any case, I wouldn't continue talking with you for several pages about adopting children if I didn't say it. ^^ That's not the issue.

The issue is more one of "one vs. all."

Reading back through my posts I can see why I wasn't making sense. I was being too indirect in an attempt to be as concise as possible. i fail miserably at summarizing, but will try here again:

I am suggesting that a person can cause certain decrease in total discrimination by eliminating it for [/i]individuals[/i] (not all individuals, just the one(s) you adopt and only for a time).

You have been arguing against mass adoptions to end all racism or racial problems.

So to hopefully put to rest that proposition against which you have been arguing, I TOTALLY agree that mass adopting all black children to white families or any other families is neither sensible nor practical. it is not an antidote to racism and is not something that i advocate.



However,


if you, as a person (your race doesn't matter, you can be red or brown or orange or yellow or pink or black or teal or whatever), believe that blacks suffer disproportionate discrimination, you can decrease the total amount of discrimination by eliminating it for one person (for a time) by adopting a child. In your home, the child would not experience discrimination. You could choose who they associated with, which schools they attended and the media they consumed and they would have no inkling of discrimination.

On top of not having to grow up with discrimination (which is perhaps the most damaging aspect due to complexes that can arise out of it), THEY will be empowered to succeed in spite of it. You'll not have slain the phantom of discrimination, but you'll have changed one person's life.

[mickmoranis]

1/3rd-1/4th of all women (millennial or otherwise) will be raped in their life, whereas for men it's something like 1/10th: how is getting raped a lot more an advantage?

ok first of all its 1 out of ever 6 females will be raped in their life... oh oh look who's exagurating now!!! ohh oh hhhh :rolleyes:

and whats this?

1 out of every 10 males will be the victim of rape in their lifetime.

That does not make the number seem so astronomically one sided does it?

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence

Now, rape has NOTHING

it has NOTHING AT ALL
'
it has Not one IOTA of a connection to
'
EQUALITY among the sexes.

it just is a fact that women are vulnerable to a form of violence. Nothing to do with feminism.

nothing to do with harassment at the work place.

nothing to do with anything but, women can be the victim of rape and have a slightly higher chance of it than m en.

HOWEVER you leave out, that white women, the ones that we're fighting for, get raped a lot less than the minorities they are not helping by fixing Hollywood working environments :rolleyes: it is all bullshit my men.

[loramin]

so far weve learned that john lasseter hugging you is rape, or a friend asking to masterbate infront of you, is rape.

So I think those numbers are bullshit.

I was using the "standard" (rape laws vary a lot by state) definition, ie. penetration of any orifice against a person's will (with at least one sex organ involved).

Got an unwanted finger in your mouth? Not rape. But an unwanted penis is. Similarly an unwanted dildo in your vagina or finger in your butt is also rape. But unwanted hugging is not rape, nor is masturbating in front of someone.

As for:
THATS WHAT THOSE WOMEN WERE.. women, who were also comedians, hanging out a bar, with someone theyh thought were cool, drinking.

Do you get it yet?

Let's hear another version:

In 2002, a Chicago comedy duo, Dana Min Goodman and Julia Wolov, landed their big break: a chance to perform at the U.S. Comedy Arts Festival in Aspen, Colo. When Louis C.K. invited them to hang out in his hotel room for a nightcap after their late-night show, they did not think twice. The bars were closed and they wanted to celebrate. He was a comedian they admired. The women would be together. His intentions seemed collegial.

As soon as they sat down in his room, still wrapped in their winter jackets and hats, Louis C.K. asked if he could take out his penis, the women said.

They thought it was a joke and laughed it off. “And then he really did it,” Ms. Goodman said in an interview with The New York Times. “He proceeded to take all of his clothes off, and get completely naked, and started masturbating.”

In 2003, Abby Schachner called Louis C.K. to invite him to one of her shows, and during the phone conversation, she said, she could hear him masturbating as they spoke. Another comedian, Rebecca Corry, said that while she was appearing with Louis C.K. on a television pilot in 2005, he asked if he could masturbate in front of her. She declined.



Definitely not rape ... but definitely not cool either.

[mickmoranis]

that last quote is a lie. Also see the above, where your statistic is a lie as well.

[Patriam1066]

"Somebody's doing the raping."

-Donald Trump

[mickmoranis]

one of the things people dont tell you about when it comes to equality is that men will spend 30% of their paycheck on their spouse and women will spend 10% so the pay gap is necessary (even though it is a myth and doesn't exist)

[hyejin]

1/3rd-1/4th of all women (millennial or otherwise) will be raped in their life, whereas for men it's something like 1/10th: how is getting raped a lot more an advantage?

I don't have supporting stats here but I bet people who flash jewels in the street while looking very vulnerable get robbed more than stinky hobos with gnarled hands. The increased incidence of rape correlates directly to the differential in economic power women benefit from merely by existing in reasonably good health.

[mickmoranis]

I don't have supporting stats here but I bet people who flash jewels in the street while looking very vulnerable get robbed more than stinky hobos with gnarled hands. The increased incidence of rape correlates directly to the differential in economic power women benefit from merely by existing in reasonably good health.

This is a hugely important factor to consider.

Also what about the evolutionary sex drives of each sex? I mean straight up the male is more often going to want to bang something right now, while a woman is more of a take care of me for a while first type of sex drive.

Like how can you even pull off a rape in that scenario? Kidnapping first? Few drinks? Talk about each others feelings? then the raping?

There are more reasons than inequality that are a factor with that statistic.

[AzzarTheGod]

I don't have supporting stats here but I bet people who flash jewels in the street while looking very vulnerable get robbed more than stinky hobos with gnarled hands. The increased incidence of rape correlates directly to the differential in economic power women benefit from merely by existing in reasonably good health.

dunk crew regulation protocols engaged

[Lulz~Sect]

https://i.imgur.com/EHUV4YC.jpg

[loramin]

ok first of all its 1 out of ever 6 females will be raped in their life

Rape is a notoriously under-reported crime: very few mugging victims feel huge amounts of guilt, but a great deal of rape victims do. If you go by police reports you get a very different answer than when you survey women, and even then because different people define rape differently (see my previous post), and even differently at different times in their life, the answers you get will depend heavily on how you phrase the questions and other factors. Also the quality of studies varies wildly, and because rape is a politicized issue many people have both conscious and unconscious biases that impact the a vested interest in affecting the statistics.

And then:

A 2013 study found that rape may be grossly underreported in the United States.[2] Furthermore, a 2014 study suggested that police departments may eliminate or undercount rapes from official records in part to "create the illusion of success in fighting violent crime".[3]

So there's nothing wrong with the 1 in 6 RAIN number you quoted (originally from the 1998 Prevalence, Incidence and Consequences of Violence Against Women Survey, from the NIJ & CDC), but if you look at other studies, including some older but higher quality ones, you get the 1 in 4 or even 1 in 3 I mentioned.

Ultimately though whether it's 1 in 6 women or 1 in 3, it's still something women suffer disproportionately from. And here's one last statistic: 99% (and likely 99.9%) of all rapists are male.

HOWEVER you leave out, that white women, the ones that we're fighting for, get raped a lot less than the minorities they are not helping by fixing Hollywood working environments :rolleyes: it is all bullshit my men.

We're 100% in agreement: minorities suffer more rape than whites.

[Lulz~Sect]

https://i.imgur.com/Rkl1weD.jpg

[loramin]

I don't have supporting stats here but I bet people who flash jewels in the street while looking very vulnerable get robbed more than stinky hobos with gnarled hands.

This is stereotypical blame the victim thinking. Look even if I was wearing jewlery in a bad part of town that does not mean I deserve to be mugged, and there are no conditions where anyone (except maybe a rapist) deserves to be raped.

The increased incidence of rape correlates directly to the differential in economic power women benefit from merely by existing in reasonably good health.

They've studied this, and as far as stranger rape goes it's simply not true. Rapists don't target by wealth or attractiveness (surprisingly). Want to know what they do target?

They did a study where they took like 100 women's photos and gave them to a bunch of rapists in prison, asking them to pick out which ones they'd go after. They found that all of them tended to target the same set of women, and that was the set of women who did not look assertive. They went after the ones who wouldn't make eye contact and had similar weak body language, irrespective of race, attractiveness, etc.

[mickmoranis]

They went after the ones who wouldn't make eye contact and had similar weak body language, irrespective of race, attractiveness, etc.

re my what society thinks is attractive correlation. Increased risk by fitting the statistically desired mold.

[hyejin]

This is stereotypical blame the victim thinking. Look even if I was wearing jewlery in a bad part of town that does not mean I deserve to be mugged, and there are no conditions where anyone (except maybe a rapist) deserves to be raped.


If you have fancy jewelry to wear you're probably doing fine economically. This was my only point and I'm glad we agree that the wealth of femininity can be abstracted to material goods.

Violent crime is also bad I agree!

[Pokesan]

https://i.imgur.com/v3ubbyL.gif

[Patriam1066]

This is stereotypical blame the victim thinking. Look even if I was wearing jewlery in a bad part of town that does not mean I deserve to be mugged, and there are no conditions where anyone (except maybe a rapist) deserves to be raped.



They've studied this, and as far as stranger rape goes it's simply not true. Rapists don't target by wealth or attractiveness (surprisingly). Want to know what they do target?

They did a study where they took like 100 women's photos and gave them to a bunch of rapists in prison, asking them to pick out which ones they'd go after. They found that all of them tended to target the same set of women, and that was the set of women who did not look assertive. They went after the ones who wouldn't make eye contact and had similar weak body language, irrespective of race, attractiveness, etc.

You need a hobby

[Pokesan]

https://i.imgur.com/SqoE9Io.jpg

[branamil]

Illuminating. Listening to a bunch of lower class mysoginistic video game addicts discuss feminism is like like watching a monkey do a math problem.

[fash]

1/3rd-1/4th of all women (millennial or otherwise) will be raped in their life, whereas for men it's something like 1/10th: how is getting raped a lot more an advantage?

It's the current year. Why are you nerds still discussing feminism? An why are you peddling stats from self-selected surveys where "I was drunk, got cum in my eye, and didn't like it" is categorized as rape?

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf . Randomly surveyed, 3 in 1k per year, college-aged women raped. 6 in 1k, sexually assaulted. (numbers lower for women enrolled in college)

Worst part about feminism is male feminists who trivialize rape by conflating it with drunk sex and healthy college life.

[fash]

On the topic of feminism and the hollywood scandal, has anyone done the math on what percentage of those Hollywood sexual predators are Jewish? Just curious.

Jewish: Louie ck, Harvey Weinstein, Bob Weinstein, Matthew Weiner, James Toback, Brett Ratner, Jeremy Piven, Dustin Hoffman, Steven Seagal...

Non-Jewish: Kevin Spacey, Ben Affleck, ...?

Seems rather disproportionate considering Jews are a 2% minority. Why would the accusers target Jews disproportionately? Could they be anti-Semitic? If so, that's intolerable!

[loramin]

It's the current year. Why are you nerds still discussing feminism? An why are you peddling stats from self-selected surveys where "I was drunk, got cum in my eye, and didn't like it" is categorized as rape?

Please read my previous posts. Short version: Rape is penetration of an orifice with at least one sex organ involved. Dildo in butt, penis in mouth, etc. all rape. "I got cum in my eye" is not rape (although I hope we can both agree that jizzing in someone's eye when they don't want or expect it is pretty messed up).

And as for why discus it, are women equal in society yet? No? Then we still need feminism. All feminism is is the belief that "women should be equal to men (modulo biological differences)".

[AzzarTheGod]

https://i.imgur.com/SqoE9Io.jpg

wheres the doctors prescription pad?

[mickmoranis]

Please read my previous posts. Short version: Rape is penetration of an orifice with at least one sex organ involved. Dildo in butt, penis in mouth, etc. all rape. "I got cum in my eye" is not rape (although I hope we can both agree that jizzing in someone's eye when they don't want or expect it is pretty mes
And as for why discus it, are women equal in society yet? No? Then we still need feminism. All feminism is is the belief that "women should be equal to men (modulo biological differences)".

1. Your statistic is not based on your opinion of what that statistic is.
2. Explain to me how women are not equal in America?

[mickmoranis]

Illuminating. Listening to a bunch of lower class mysoginistic video game addicts discuss feminism is like like watching a monkey do a math problem.

I got news for you loser, you're a fat cuck incel.

[mickmoranis]

https://i.imgur.com/E0yLOws.png

[skarlorn]

https://i.imgur.com/E0yLOws.png

that is pretty funny dude; the blinders are real on both sides though :o

[fash]

And as for why discus it, are women equal in society yet? No? Then we still need feminism. All feminism is is the belief that "women should be equal to men (modulo biological differences)".

Yea, in the 1960s with 2nd wave feminism. That's completed.

Your dictionary definition of feminism is not today's 4th wave feminism, which is largely about intersectionality (aka oppression olympics), patriarchy theory, sexual objectification (both normal biological behavior), trigger warnings, micro-aggressions (both infantilization), etc. Look at critiques of modern feminism by some of the old guard feminists like Camille Paglia or Christina Hoff Sommers (trigger warning: they are both crazy feminists).

[Csihar]

Yea, in the 1960s with 2nd wave feminism. That's completed.

Your dictionary definition of feminism is not today's 4th wave feminism, which is largely about intersectionality (aka oppression olympics), patriarchy theory, sexual objectification (both normal biological behavior), trigger warnings, micro-aggressions (both infantilization), etc. Look at critiques of modern feminism by some of the old guard feminists like Camille Paglia or Christina Hoff Sommers (trigger warning: they are both crazy feminists).

Call it post-feminism. It's not feminism. Like how black supremacists grew out of the civil rights movements but you don't call them civil rights activists.

[hyejin]

i finally skimmed midway into a fash post and the first keyphrase i picked up was "trigger warning" :(

[mickmoranis]

2020 gon b fun year if creepy biden runs https://youtu.be/KQ-YjGmpO4Q

[fash]

i finally skimmed midway into a fash post and the first keyphrase i picked up was "trigger warning" :(

My posts are very problematic.

[JurisDictum]

Feminism is a lens -- like any ideology. The lens views the world as a struggle between genders. The patriarchy explains this conflict between genders.

I'm just saying, that lens doesn't really tell you shit about what most Millenials have to worry about most the time. I wouldn't argue that Millenial men are less interested in overall gender equality than Millenial women. Too many Millenial men are vested in some woman's income (spouce, mother, sugar moms).

And that's what this is all about right? Income. That's THE issue. Unless your rich. Then you can pick some fancy issues like what's going on in Moscow or the environment. You can chortle about it in a second language with your fucking snob kids as the illegal help comes in with dinner.

The rest of us hope you die, and care about wealth distribution. What does feminism tell us about wealth distribution? The men have more but it's pretty close. Clearly if we close the gap that will solve all feminism's problems with wealth inequality. But that's not going to do shit for a Millenial unless she is underpaid and that tiny bit of difference solves all her economic problems.

Take the Feminist lens off and but the Socialist one on. Many media feminists are not our allies.

[mickmoranis]

Feminism is a lens -- like any ideology. The lens views the world as a struggle between genders. The patriarchy explains this conflict between genders.

I'm just saying, that lens doesn't really tell you shit about what most Millenials have to worry about most the time. I wouldn't argue that Millenial men are less interested in overall gender equality than Millenial women. Too many Millenial men are vested in some woman's income (spouce, mother, sugar moms).

And that's what this is all about right? Income. That's THE issue. Unless your rich. Then you can pick some fancy issues like what's going on in Moscow or the environment. You can chortle about it in a second language with your fucking snob kids as the illegal help comes in with dinner.

The rest of us hope you die, and care about wealth distribution. What does feminism tell us about wealth distribution? The men have more but it's pretty close. Clearly if we close the gap that will solve all feminism's problems with wealth inequality. But that's not going to do shit for a Millenial unless she is underpaid and that tiny bit of difference solves all her economic problems.

Take the Feminist lens off and but the Socialist one on. Many media feminists are not our allies.

Its refreshing that at least one libtard has a brain.

[Pokesan]

jurisdictum hates women

[AzzarTheGod]

jurisdictum hates women

[mickmoranis]

In order to be equal we must be more than equal, in order to end systematic racism we must be overtly racist

kill all white men

[Pokesan]

In order to be equal we must be more than equal, in order to end systematic racism we must be overtly racist

kill all white men

your understanding of racism is sophomoronic :-)

[AzzarTheGod]

2020 gon b fun year if creepy biden runs https://youtu.be/KQ-YjGmpO4Q

naw biden is the dawgs dawg n we're all ridin w em


he da maaaaaaaaaaaan he da mannnn

[Jimjam]

In order to be equal we must be more than equal, in order to end systematic racism we must be overtly racist

kill all white men

Pound for pound, I suggest real feminist activists should be helping women in Asian and African communities.

We've reached the point of diminishing returns for return on investment in the west. Those other continents are full of maturing economies where there is significant room for the improvement of standards for all living under them, and ensuring the improvement in standards is spread in a fair manner.

[Lhancelot]

Pound for pound, I suggest real feminist activists should be helping women in Asian and African communities.

We've reached the point of diminishing returns for return on investment in the west. Those other continents are full of maturing economies where there is significant room for the improvement of standards for all living under them, and ensuring the improvement in standards is spread in a fair manner.

Jimjam, when I read this I couldn't help but remember Patrick Bateman speaking at the dinner table expressing his desire for world peace in American Psycho.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZlK_ThjMk4

Are you Patrick Bateman? :eek:

[Jimjam]

Did you just call me Master Bateman?

[JurisDictum]

Some other similar drawn-out articles where they are gentile, avoiding offending anyone, and aren't just telling it straight like me:

Does Feminism Have a Class Problem? (https://www.thenation.com/article/does-feminism-have-class-problem/)

Yes, Feminism Has a Class Problem (http://www.ethnography.com/2015/01/yes-feminism-has-a-class-problem-2/)

[Lhancelot]

Did you just call me Master Bateman?

No. But I can if you'd like that. Just don't come hunting me down please! :eek:

[Jimjam]

Some other similar drawn-out articles where they are gentile, avoiding offending anyone, and aren't just telling it straight like me:

Does Feminism Have a Class Problem? (https://www.thenation.com/article/does-feminism-have-class-problem/)

Yes, Feminism Has a Class Problem (http://www.ethnography.com/2015/01/yes-feminism-has-a-class-problem-2/)

The font on 'Does Blaah' was too big for me to read, but the "Yes" article strongly confirmed to my bias, and I suspect was written by a human being with actual life experience.

Thank you for sharing these.

[AzzarTheGod]

2020 gon b fun year if creepy biden runs https://youtu.be/KQ-YjGmpO4Q

non troll response i think its an issue they will take off the table because of trumps own vulnerability for a hitjob. 2 more years is a long time to gather up fake allegations from various women.

his campaign will go to Joe and say we want X Y Z, if not then we'll proceed with a campaign as Biden as a sexual predator.

Biden should agree to take the issue off the table.

[mickmoranis]

https://i.imgur.com/SlhmU17.jpg

[Lhancelot]

non troll response i think its an issue they will take off the table because of trumps own vulnerability for a hitjob. 2 more years is a long time to gather up fake allegations from various women.

his campaign will go to Joe and say we want X Y Z, if not then we'll proceed with a campaign as Biden as a sexual predator.

Biden should agree to take the issue off the table.

One day Bernie is going to be POTUS. he might be 124 years old then, but I believe.

[JurisDictum]

One day Bernie is going to be POTUS. he might be 124 years old then, but I believe.

Yea this bravado the conservatives have is totally a false front. Old man Bernie scares the shit out of them. They should hang his portrait next to the toilet.

We're all OK with him dying in office. He just can't pick a goofball VP -- can't see why he would.

[loramin]

*Sleeping Beauty consent cartoon*

Ironically the original fairy tale was really not consensual. The original story didn't involve a kiss, it involved the prince raping sleeping beauty. She didn't wake up then either: it wasn't until she popped out one (or two, depending on the version) kids, and one sucks on her finger, that she finally wakes up.

[mickmoranis]

Ironically the original fairy tale was really not consensual. The original story didn't involve a kiss, it involved the prince raping sleeping beauty. She didn't wake up then either: it wasn't until she popped out one (or two, depending on the version) kids and one sucks on her finger that she finally wakes up.

did you til this in the comments section of reddit? Just curious, cus I did.

[loramin]

No; I read Reddit but I didn't see that cartoon. I just know a lot of medieval fairy tales because of a Muppet Magic class I took (Henson's daughter was big on them, and they led to projects like Dark Crystal and Labrynth).

[mickmoranis]

Well moral of the story is: Once we changed a fairy tale because it was too offencive, now we've become so fragile and sure that life imitates art instead of art imitating life, that we made the fairy tail illegal.

BURN THE GOLDEN BOOK!

[loramin]

Well moral of the story is: Once we changed a fairy tale because it was too offencive, now we've become so fragile and sure that life imitates art instead of art imitating life, that we made the fairy tail illegal.

BURN THE GOLDEN BOOK!

I just see it as progress. There once was a time when humans thought nothing was wrong with raping a sleeping woman (and telling kids about it). Then there was a time when kissing a sleeping woman without her consent was considered ok. Now we've progressed to understanding that no one deserves any kind of sexual act being done to them without their consent.

Humanity gets better over time, there's your real happy ending.

[Jimjam]

Feminism lead to Dark Crystal?

I had a poster of that movie, girls did not dig it, but weird, ketamised bisexual men did.

[mickmoranis]

I just see it as progress. There once was a time when humans thought nothing was wrong with raping a sleeping woman (and telling kids about it). Then there was a time when kissing a sleeping woman without her consent was considered ok. Now we've progressed to understanding that no one deserves any kind of sexual act being done to them without their consent.

Humanity gets better over time, there's your real happy ending.

may I introduce you to the last time we thought this same behavior was progress because art contradicted social constructs:

https://i.imgur.com/w42T0kT.jpg

[loramin]

Feminism lead to Dark Crystal?

LOL no, medieval fairy tales did. While Henson was doing the Muppets and Sesame Street his daughter went off to college and got really in to medieval fairy tales and other medieval stories. She came back and got Jim into them, and that's what led them to work on some very non-Muppety projects like Labyrinth and Dark Crystal.

I had a poster of that movie, girls did not dig it, but weird, ketamised bisexual men did.

I knew one girl who totally dug it ... but her name was Kira (she was named after the character in the movie), so I guess she was a little biased.

may I introduce you to the last time we thought this same behavior was progress because art contradicted social constructs:

https://i.imgur.com/w42T0kT.jpg

Huh?

[mickmoranis]

Huh?

lol how do you not get it?

If you think life imitates art... so you destroy art... you are a book burning fundamentalist.

Let me explain it to you: Art imitates life.

Not the other way around.

This has been proven not only in the subprime court https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchants_Ass%27n but is the prevailing belief of everyone who isnt a fundamentalist.

[loramin]

lol how do you not get it?

If you think life imitates art... so you destroy art... you are a book burning fundamentalist.

Let me explain it to you: Art imitates life.

Not the other way around.

This has been proven not only in the subprime court https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchants_Ass%27n but is the prevailing belief of everyone who isnt a fundamentalist.

Has a book ever had an impact on how you live your life? That's life being influenced by art. Art influences life influences art influences ... it's not a one way thing.

But again, huh? What does a supreme court granting video games art status have to do with Sleeping Beauty?

[mickmoranis]

Has a book ever had an impact on how you live your life? That's life being influenced by art. Art influences life influences art influences ... it's not a one way thing.

But again, huh? What does a supreme court granting video games art status have to do with Sleeping Beauty?

lol oh go tell it to the supreme court ya religious zealot in athiest socialist clothing.

while you're at it, violence in video games are why we have mass shootings. No arguments.

[loramin]

lol oh go tell it to the supreme court ya religious zealot in athiest socialist clothing.

while you're at it, violence in video games are why we have mass shootings. No arguments.

You've completely lost me now Mick.

[mickmoranis]

I lost you so many posts ago, and to be honest I dont think I ever even had you.

But you're just a guy who thinks violence in media doesn't cause violence in real life but sexism causes sexism in real life, or you're the kind of person that is OK with violence in media causing violence in real life, but want to change the sexist stuff because you dont care about people dying but care about what women told you to care about.

OR

you're a religious nutjob that thinks we should abolish all media because its a sin against god.

Either way, you're nuts my good man. Sorry :(

[loramin]

I lost you so many posts ago, and to be honest I dont think I ever even had you.

But you're just a guy who thinks violence in media doesn't cause violence in real life but sexism causes sexism in real life, or you're the kind of person that is OK with violence in media causing violence in real life, but want to change the sexist stuff because you dont care about people dying but care about what women told you to care about.

OR

you're a religious nutjob that thinks we should abolish all media because its a sin against god.

Either way, you're nuts my good man. Sorry :(

First off, I don't that believe violence or sexism in video games directly causes either in the real world (while at the same time it would be "nuts" to pretend that video games, which are art, have no influence on society). I also don't "want to change the sexist stuff because [I] don[']t care about people dying" ... you seem to have produced that entirely from your own mind.

Second, normal people have the ability to follow a conversation. If person A says something, person B responds to what A said, then A responds to what B said, and so on. You however just say random shit (which sometimes isn't even true) in response to quotes of mine. All I'm asking is for the most basic of human communication expectations: respond to what people are actually saying, don't just reply with unrelated non-sequiturs (or if you do, don't quote me).

[Lhancelot]

Well moral of the story is: Once we changed a fairy tale because it was too offencive, now we've become so fragile and sure that life imitates art instead of art imitating life, that we made the fairy tail illegal.

BURN THE GOLDEN BOOK!

If you research or dissect biblical stories, you can find all kinds of stuff like the alteration of Sleeping Beauty. The story of Lot and his two daughters is a good one to start with.

[skarlorn]

Second, normal people have the ability to follow a conversation. If person A says something, person B responds to what A said, then A responds to what B said, and so on. You however just say random shit (which sometimes isn't even true) in response to quotes of mine. All I'm asking is for the most basic of human communication expectations: respond to what people are actually saying, don't just reply with unrelated non-sequiturs (or if you do, don't quote me).

best advice a person could ever give u mick hope this helps

[Lhancelot]

Second, normal people have the ability to follow a conversation. If person A says something, person B responds to what A said, then A responds to what B said, and so on. You however just say random shit (which sometimes isn't even true) in response to quotes of mine. All I'm asking is for the most basic of human communication expectations: respond to what people are actually saying, don't just reply with unrelated non-sequiturs (or if you do, don't quote me).

I wish I could say this to retards verbatim when trying to "discuss" things. Loramin, you went deep with this one.

A+++

[Pokesan]

I like rape

at least mick isn't this guy, saying outrageous things for attention. yeesh.

[skarlorn]

Forum cuck is easily the most garbage troll anon we have had yet

[mickmoranis]

best advice a person could ever give u mick hope this helps

media that is better than every book we have prevented the religious right from taking out of circulation, that the manipulated cucks on the left have taken out of circulation:

LCK standup: More relatable moral guidance than mark twain.
The Cosby Show: far more moral guidance can be taken from this show than a thousand readings of a catcher in the rye.
Any movie staring Kevin Spacy: Powerful honest delivery in every performance.
Pixar: run by a gem of a man who has brought storytelling to a new level, now hes done.
The Frugal Gourmet: cooking great food on a budget.

Who's next? YOU that's who.

The left is after guns, freedom of speech and they want to censor media...

Tell me again how you are not going to just take the leap from democratic socialism to full blown communism again? Oh by the way, in the first socalist program of your precious 0bama you actually fine people for opting out... and Im supposed to believe you arent going to throw people into gulags?

Sorry. You guys are full blown fascists and you may as well spend your afternoon in church since you're such a puritain that sex scares you so much that you have to have it banned.

Because yall need Jesus.

(oh who do the left give a pass to? EVERY lefty politician... HMM SURELY THEY ARE NOT MANIPULATING THE PEOPLE.. SURELY the people who are free from judgment that happen to be in charge of the lefty political movement, arent corrupt, there has to be another reason they are not held to the same standard.. RIGHT?!)

[Pokesan]

media that is better than every book we have prevented the religious right from taking out of circulation, that the manipulated cucks on the left have taken out of circulation:

LCK standup: More relatable moral guidance than mark twain.
The Cosby Show: far more moral guidance can be taken from this show than a thousand readings of a catcher in the rye.
Any movie staring Kevin Spacy: Powerful honest delivery in every performance.
Pixar: run by a gem of a man who has brought storytelling to a new level, now hes done.
The Frugal Gourmet: cooking great food on a budget.

Who's next? YOU that's who.

The left is after guns, freedom of speech and they want to censor media...

Tell me again how you are not going to just take the leap from democratic socialism to full blown communism again? Oh by the way, in the first socalist program of your precious 0bama you actually fine people for opting out... and Im supposed to believe you arent going to throw people into gulags?

Sorry. You guys are full blown fascists and you may as well spend your afternoon in church since you're such a puritain that sex scares you so much that you have to have it banned.

Because yall need Jesus.

(oh who do the left give a pass to? EVERY lefty politician... HMM SURELY THEY ARE NOT MANIPULATING THE PEOPLE.. SURELY the people who are free from judgment that happen to be in charge of the lefty political movement, arent corrupt, there has to be another reason they are not held to the same standard.. RIGHT?!)

which of these things was censored by the government?

[mickmoranis]

which of these things was censored by the government?

they would all be censored by the goverment had your cucknation army had their way, and are trying to.

We need the 2a to protect us not from drone flying united states marine corps.

We need the 2a to protect us from the coup you and your pajamaboy wearing friends are trying (right now) to take over the goverment.

Do you understand?

the 2a is to kill libtards

not the goverment

to protect the goverment

from you

[mickmoranis]

also your goverment literally made it a crime not to be a socialist last go, so again, tell me how you are not a communist?

and since you bolded free speech, here you go:

Pelosi demanded that the National Park Service deny a permit for the conservative “Patriot Prayer” event in San Francisco. In an interview, she said, “The Constitution does not say that a person can yell ‘wolf’ in a crowded theater. If you are endangering people, then you don’t have a constitutional right to do that.” In point of fact, there is nothing unlawful about yelling “wolf” in a crowded theater. Wolf attacks in movie theaters are not particularly common and unlikely to cause panic. Most urban audiences would assume it was a misplaced reference to a Kevin Costner film.

[Pokesan]

also your goverment literally made it a crime not to be a socialist last go, so again, tell me how you are not a communist?

and since you bolded free speech, here you go:

Pelosi demanded that the National Park Service deny a permit for the conservative “Patriot Prayer” event in San Francisco. In an interview, she said, “The Constitution does not say that a person can yell ‘wolf’ in a crowded theater. If you are endangering people, then you don’t have a constitutional right to do that.” In point of fact, there is nothing unlawful about yelling “wolf” in a crowded theater. Wolf attacks in movie theaters are not particularly common and unlikely to cause panic. Most urban audiences would assume it was a misplaced reference to a Kevin Costner film.

i'd wager she said a good deal more than that on the topic, likely something about the separation clause. pretty misleading dude.

[mickmoranis]

i'd wager she said a good deal more than that on the topic, likely something about the separation clause. pretty misleading dude.

I love how you openly admit here that you have no idea what she said but youre sure she said something you think she'd say if you were her.

this is liberalism and its real sad.

take a big sniff of that cup of joe christmas moring in your jammyjams for me.

[Pokesan]

I love how you openly admit here that you have no idea what she said but youre sure she said something you think she'd say if you were her.

this is liberalism and its real sad.

take a big sniff of that cup of joe christmas moring in your jammyjams for me.

k i googled it and their permit was issued.

what are you even mad about?

[mickmoranis]

k i googled it and their permit was issued.

what are you even mad about?

I'm not I'm proving to you that your government TRIED to take freedom of speech away.

You asked

I showed

Also google ruby ridge.

Waco.

[Pokesan]

I'm not I'm proving to you that your government TRIED to take freedom of speech away.

You asked

I showed

Also google ruby ridge.

Waco.

no nancy pelosi isn't in charge of the agency responsible for issuing permits

what?

[mickmoranis]

no nancy pelosi isn't in charge of the agency responsible for issuing permits

what?

this is not fun for anyone to read, get a new tactic.

Loramin, the last page was directed at you and skarlorn, its important that you read it.

Poke please have some ritalin im sure your parents let you eat like candy as a child

[Pokesan]

this is not fun for anyone to read, get a new tactic.

Loramin, the last page was directed at you and skarlorn, its important that you read it.

Poke please have some ritalin im sure your parents let you eat like candy as a child

how did the government restrict free speech by issuing the permit?

[loramin]

Loramin, the last page was directed at you and skarlorn, its important that you read it.


Also google ruby ridge.

Waco.

Yeah both were completely fucked up: that's what you get when you have an armed standoff with morons on both sides.

But I still don't understand what any of this has to do with the whole feminism conversation we were having before you came in and started going off about censorship.

[mickmoranis]

But I still don't understand what any of this has to do with the whole feminism conversation we were having before you came in and started going off about censorship.

https://i.imgur.com/kub3cVn.png

[maskedmelon]

mick, do you do stand-up?

[mickmoranis]

mick, do you do stand-up?

i love u maskedmelon

[Pokesan]

But I still don't understand what any of this has to do with the whole feminism conversation we were having before you came in and started going off about censorship.

lets rerail this - do you have an opinion on gender critical feminism?

[mickmoranis]

lets rerail this - do you have an opinion on gender critical feminism?

https://i.imgur.com/WrolX4D.png

[skarlorn]

i will try to read your gibberish tomorrow mick

[hyejin]

your a generous sir

[Lhancelot]

also your goverment literally made it a crime not to be a socialist last go, so again, tell me how you are not a communist?


This is a good point about the USA.

People need to read their history and really understand exactly what the USA has done not just to it's own citizens but to other countries regarding democracy.

It's ironic that the country that spouts the most about "freedom for all" actually is one of the most responsible for creating oppression in once-democratically lead countries across the globe by destabilizing/destroying existing democratically lead foreign governments.

Just read on Iran and their democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh and how the USA used the CIA to dismantle him and his government. Thanks to that, we now have non-democratic leaders ruling Iran who our media love to portray as raging tyrants. How did they get there? Oh, thanks! The USA put them in power by destroying the once democratic government that was there!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh

This has been the blueprint for the USA which we have followed and continue to follow to destroy and destabilize middle eastern countries. My point is this: Even though our country does this, it doesn't make us all anti-democratic commies, Mick.

[mickmoranis]

https://i.imgur.com/1sJZetG.gif

[JurisDictum]

Turns out like 20% of people or something are into BDSM -- so you can expect its leather bound presence in popular culture and media for a long time.

Actually just googled it -- looks like its 36% of Americans compared to a 20% worldwide average. I'm going to blame that one on Christianity.

[Lhancelot]

Turns out like 20% of people or something are into BDSM -- so you can expect its leather bound presence in popular culture and media for a long time.

Actually just googled it -- looks like its 36% of Americans compared to a 20% worldwide average. I'm going to blame that one on Christianity.

Leather looks awesome. Even those of us not into BDSM like how it looks.

Leather and sexual torture is not awesome.

Guess I fall into the 64% that aint into BDSM.

[maskedmelon]

The issue that I take with feminism in its present incarnation is that it shames femininity by insisting non-feminine traits are more praiseworthy than feminine ones. Its measure
of successes is misguided. it assumes that if women enjoy equal treatment with men then they will and should share the same ambitions. feminism in its current
form is a glorification of dominance, aggression and violence.

if you consider yourself a feminist in the traditional sense, welcome to the realm of modern thought. very few people disagree with you. it's liek declaring opposition to theft.

advocacy is important though because it affords people purpose. when nature has been so completely subdued that outside of irresponsibility or catastrophe she poses no significant threat to one's existence, it is one's primal duty to fabricate such opposition to one's existence that survival is still hard-won.

it also affords others a few imaginary steps up the dominance hierarchy, by establishing their superiority over women. it is not possible to help a superior. one must enjoy superiority in some regard to be able to help. whether the superiority is a product of chance or choice and whether one considers it as such is irrelevant.

advocacy is about fabricating purpose for onself and elevating one's self-worth with subordination of others, all with indifference to reality.

of course very few people harbor malicious intent with regard to their advocacy. the vast majority are entirely unaware of what they are doing or why.

none of this is of course meant to trivialize or ridicule the desire to help others. that is an admirable and useful trait, but it is something of which we should be aware and strive to protect from exploitation by destructive reasoning.

[maskedmelon]

Actually just googled it -- looks like its 36% of Americans compared to a 20% worldwide average. I'm going to blame that one on Christianity.

wouldn't think it was maybe rooted in a glut of individual liberty and a burning need to escape the torment and fatigue of exces choice in the absence of relevance?

[loramin]

The issue that I take with feminism in its present incarnation is that it shames femininity by insisting non-feminine traits are more praiseworthy than feminine ones. Its measure of successes is misguided. it assumes that if women enjoy equal treatment with men then they will and should share the same ambitions. feminism in its current form is a glorification of dominance, aggression and violence.

if you consider yourself a feminist in the traditional sense, welcome to the realm of modern thought. very few people disagree with you. it's liek declaring opposition to theft.

Where do you get this from? Not the part about how being against traditional feminism is like being against theft (100% agree), but the parts about how modern feminism "shames femininity by insisting non-feminine traits are more praiseworthy than feminine ones" or that "feminism in its current form is a glorification of dominance, aggression and violence."

People seem to have a lot of crazy ideas about what feminism is, and I blame TV. There are a lot of people claiming a lot of things on TV, and the people who make TV showcase the people with the most extraordinary claims because it makes for better ratings ("sensationalism"). So if you watch only cable news and think the people Fox and CNN choose to represent feminism you could easily get a distorted view.

But if you look at actual feminist activism, and I mean the mainstream stuff (eg. Planned Parenthood supporters not the fringe weirdos who say crazy stuff like "all sex is rape"), I don't see any of what you're talking about. I was fairly involved in feminism at an extremely liberal college (basically the movie PCU was based on us and Berkeley). There was nothing about feminine traits being more praiseworthy (although there certainly was some "hey these male traits have had an oversized influence on our society for a long time, maybe we should value some of the more feminine traits that we haven't traditionally valued?"). And there was certainly nothing about the "glorification of dominance, aggression and violence".

[maskedmelon]

Where do you get this from? Not the part about how being against traditional feminism is like being against theft (100% agree), but the parts about how modern feminism "shames femininity by insisting non-feminine traits are more praiseworthy than feminine ones" or that "feminism in its current form is a glorification of dominance, aggression and violence."

im not confident in my ability to communicate this in a way that makes sense to you. I think you are probably better equipped to figure it out than i am to explain it ^^;

Let's start with a few questions:

1. what are feminine traits?
2. what are masculine traits?

People seem to have a lot of crazy ideas about what feminism is, and I blame TV. There are a lot of people claiming a lot of things on TV, and the people who make TV showcase the people with the most extraordinary claims because it makes for better ratings ("sensationalism"). So if you watch only cable news and think the people Fox and CNN choose to represent feminism you could easily get a distorted view.

i don't have cable television. the information that I consider comes from a variety of sources, none of which i visit habitually. if you would liek to point me to some of your preferred resources, I'll have a look at them ^^

But if you look at actual feminist activism, and I mean the mainstream stuff (eg. Planned Parenthood supporters not the fringe weirdos who say crazy stuff like "all sex is rape"), I don't see any of what you're talking about. I was fairly involved in feminism at an extremely liberal college (basically the movie PCU was based on us and Berkeley). There was nothing about feminine traits being more praiseworthy (although there certainly was some "hey these male traits have had an oversized influence on our society for a long time, maybe we should value some of the more feminine traits that we haven't traditionally valued?"). And there was certainly nothing about the "glorification of dominance, aggression and violence".

right on. it's not an overt advocacy for those things. if it were, most of the people who throw their support behind it would walk away. However, intent often fails to align with results. For example, a child might want to eat sugary treats every meal of every day even though they do not want cavities. similarly an addict may prefer to overindulge in certain stimuli even though they might not desire the accompanying costs in other areas of their life.

"The path to hell is paved with good intentions." as they say, or however that phrase goes. I'm not the greatest fan of proverbs (o^^o)


i would encourage you to consider the rest of my post though, because even though the particular excerpt you quoted is of interest to you, the latter part of that post is much more useful because it is broadly applicable ^^

[JurisDictum]

How I Reconciled Feminism with My First Step into the ‘Dark Side’ of BDSM (https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/xdmkaj/how-i-reconciled-feminism-with-my-first-step-into-the-dark-side-of-bdsm)
Adherents of radical feminism believe that egalitarianism means eradicating the desire for men and women to partake in domination games, particularly in sexuality. They criticize the consensual pain and domination experienced by submissive women yet gloss over the reality of submissive men, dominant women, and a plethora of powerful gender-bending LGBTQ people who partake in BDSM.

Human sexuality is not a neat and pretty package. It is the most lizard-like part of our brains. It is dark, dirty, mean, playful, dominant, submissive, and messy. That complexity and wildness is what makes sex fun, intense, complicated and dynamic. I won't be trading my kinky proclivities for the civil love-sessions of the sanctimonious.

Feminism has seemed to have turned into this kind of good ol' girls club. Where the elite, good-looking, interesting women write articles about whatever activities they are doing and then give a feminist take on it.

It's a social club where we all get together and reflect what its like to be a rich women and a rich man's world. Lots of talking about feelings, lots of abstract deep philosophy...

Not a lot there to do with petitioning the government. What laws do feminists want?

[loramin]

The massive amount of misinformation about feminism here is overwhelming. You guys are Don Quixote, fighting windmill monsters that don't exist. In fact, I'm willing to bet that I'm the only one in this thread who has actually known multiple real-life people involved in the feminist movement. The vast majority of you probably don't know even know one, and many likely don't even know anyone who identifies as a feminist.

The "glorification of dominance, aggression and violence" is antithetical to the feminist movement (going back to the very earliest days when temperance and feminism overlapped). Now melon if I understand your point, it's that "well they don't like that stuff, but they're stupid and do stupid counterproductive things which ultimately results in the glorification of dominance, aggression and violence" ... to which I say bullshit. Or at least, you have to back such an extraordinary claim up with something: I can claim the Republican party has a pro-gay agenda (and back it up by showing all the stupid things Republicans have done historically that have ultimately furthered gay rights) ... but that'd be a stupid argument to make. I certainly wouldn't just say "Republicans <3 gays: you are probably better equipped to figure it out than i am to explain it".

As for "adherents of radical feminism believe that egalitarianism means eradicating the desire for men and women to partake in domination games", these "radical feminists" are almost exclusively in people's imagination. I mean sure, you can find crazy people willing to say crazy things on any side of an argument, but again I have known a lot of feminists, and none of them were anything like that.

In fact they were all, every last one of them, far more sex-positive than your average person. They generally had a much better understanding of the concept that the human brain (and thus sex) is weird, and that there's nothing wrong with weirdness like BDSM as long as both parties are consenting and having fun.

What laws do feminists want?

Crazy, insane liberal stuff, like greater legal protection against discrimination, harassment, rape and abuse, better support of women in abusive relationships, equal pay for equal work (the details of how to implement this one issue probably does vary between liberals/conservatives), elimination of child marriage, access to abortion (and female healthcare in general) for all women, more teaching of STEM to young girls, etc.

[JurisDictum]

The massive amount of misinformation about feminism here is overwhelming. You guys are Don Quixote, fighting windmill monsters that don't exist. In fact, I'm willing to bet that no one in this thread knows more than one actual real-life person involved in the feminist movement. In fact, the vast majority of you probably don't know even a single one; hell you probably don't even know anyone who even identifies as a feminist.

The "glorification of dominance, aggression and violence" is antithetical to the feminist movement. Now melon if I understand your point, it's that "well they don't like that stuff, but they're stupid and do stupid counterproductive things which ultimately results in the glorification of dominance, aggression and violence" ... to which I say bullshit. Or at least, you have to back that up with something: I can claim the Republican party has a pro-gay agenda (and back it up by showing all the stupid things Republicans have done historically that have ultimately furthered gay rights) ... but that'd be a stupid argument to make.

As for "adherents of radical feminism believe that egalitarianism means eradicating the desire for men and women to partake in domination games", these "radical feminists" are mostly in people's imagination. I mean sure, you can find crazy people willing to say crazy things on any side of an argument, but again I have known a lot of (active) feminists, and none of them were anything like that.

In fact they were all, every last one of them, sex positive. In fact, they generally had a much better understanding of the concept that the human brain (and thus sex) is weird, and that there's nothing wrong with weirdness like BDSM as long as both parties are consenting and having fun, than your average person.

I suggest to you that the feminism you are learning at college doesn't exist.

What they do is the same thing this woman did. "Well there's asshole men out there that think its wrong to wear a mini skirt as a hot girl in her 20s -- and telling this kind of guy off is really important even though no even fucking agrees with him."

Trust me, plenty of feminist types think if you like getting dominated by men you are somehow less feminist. But its not a real problem is it? It's a rich housewife kind of problem.

That's what the middle-elite ranged women don't see. It's silly time in the feminist world ATM. It's time to distract the plebs -- not help out poor women...

Edit: Keep in mind -- I don't go around saying this about every Social Justice movement. I just honestly think white and white-acting women are basically fine in America now. At least from a policy directional standpoint. There more of a watchdog at this point as far as use goes.

Blacks are trying for criminal justice reform -- but a lot of opportunists are kind of doing what the BDSM lady did in the above article. Using this as a moment to get attention and not looking at the big picture of whats going to help achieve criminal justice reform....but always happens in every movement.

[mickmoranis]

People seem to have a lot of crazy ideas about what feminism is

meanwhile every feminist thinks trump is a nazi and goign to start world war 3...

do you see how what YOU think the feminist movement is, is not what OTHERS see when they hear feminists explain what the feminist movement is?

You have to rationalize your love of feminism to someone who doesnt care, the exact same way a libtard needs a trump supporter to explain "what it is he meant by that tweet"

you have injected your personal ideology into the idiology of the hive mind, but it doesn't work like that

Simply put, if you are a feminist now, that means white men are privlaged accross the board and deserve discrimination to balance history, and if you disagree with that then you are wrong and should either not talk at all or be forcibly removed from the conversation all together.

If you dont think that is the ideology of the feminist hive mind, then again, you are injecting your own individual ideology into the hive minds, and your ideology means nothing.

You can explain all you want about what YOUR beliefs are, but they are not the belifes of the hive mind and when you defend the hive mind but use your beliefs to do it, you just come off as crazy.

Feminism is a mob, out for justice, it's just on the internet, so it has become a mob that cannot disperse. Which is VERY dangerous.

Imagine if the KKK in the 1960s had the internet? That image is basically what has become of your movement.

[loramin]

So once again ... do either of you actually know even a single person who identifies as a feminist, let alone multiple people active in the movement? Or are you basing all this on your imaginary preconceptions of who feminists (that you've never met) are?

[mickmoranis]

So once again ... do either of you actually know even a single person who identifies as a feminist, let alone multiple people active in the movement? Or are you basing all this on your imaginary preconceptions of who feminists (that you've never met) are?

I am a feminist, but I am by no means a modern one. I believe women reached equality in the 1980s.

https://i.imgur.com/b9NtsTj.jpg

[mickmoranis]

imaginary preconceptions of who feminists (that you've never met) are?

1. talented artists are being blacklisted right now, so you cant say its a "you havent met them".. these feminists are literally taking away my freedom right now to enjoy art because of puritanical nonsense.
2. you're the one trying to tell me that's not what they are about.

YOU are the only one basing your reality on the belief that people think the way you do, that you haven't met.

Im basing mine on actions.

[loramin]

I just honestly think white and white-acting women are basically fine in America now. At least from a policy directional standpoint.

I am a feminist, but I am by no means a modern one. I believe women reached equality in the 1980s.

It's always easiest to deny privilege when you're the one benefiting from it. Like white people don't have privilege ... they just don't have to worry about being framed or beat up when they get pulled over ... but that's not privilege.

In this case it comes down to a single question (I mean actually a lot more, but this one is the easiest/simplest): have you been raped in your life? No? Might it have something to do with your 1/2 (actually a lot less than that, but I don't want to argue over rape stats) chance of being raped?

I guess if being raped is no big deal then yeah, women are totally equal to men in our society.

[mickmoranis]

It's always easiest to deny privilege when you're the one benefiting from it. Like white people don't have privilege ... they just don't have to worry about being framed or beat up when they get pulled over ... but that's not privelege.

Have you been raped in your life? No? Might have something to do with your 1/2 (actually a lot less than that, but I don't want to argue over rape stats) chance.

But I guess if being raped is no big deal then yeah, women are totally equal to men in our society.

yes I have been raped.

once by a man and once by a fat woman while I was blacked out and woke up with her on top of me.

[loramin]

Wow Mick, I am truly and sincerely sorry to hear that. The point I wanted to make was that one group of people having a far higher risk of violence than another group makes that first group unequal ... but I never meant in any way to trivialize male rape, and I hope I haven't done so with any of my posts.

I also hope you were able to get the help you needed afterwards, and if not I hope you seek it out someday. Those kind of experiences can be damaging in many unexpected ways.

[Lhancelot]

So once again ... do either of you actually know even a single person who identifies as a feminist, let alone multiple people active in the movement? Or are you basing all this on your imaginary preconceptions of who feminists (that you've never met) are?

Obviously some of their ideology is formed by the sources they choose to read or watch which probably only depict the most extreme "feminists."

[Rader]

yes I have been raped.

once by a man and once by a fat woman while I was blacked out and woke up with her on top of me.

"Falling" onto phallic-shaped objects isn't actually rape.

[mickmoranis]

I was never able to get any of the help I needed because being raped as a man is a fucking joke and nobody wants to hear it, the one person I told when I was a kid defrended me IRL because it was too much for her to handle.

its bullshit.

Life is rediculously hard and if you go around feeling like you desrve simpathy for the same shit that everyone goes around suffering from then start swinging your perverbial dick by assuming that everyone has it GOOD if theyre white or a man, then all you're doing is announcing

"IM A HUGE RETARD HEAR ME AND LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY"

it is by no means more difficult to live on earth as a man or a women so longa s you are born in a western civilized country.

Now, born in a muslim one that libs love to protect and guess again.

But the moral of the story.

In work, pay, social hiarchy, in every single facet of life man and women are created equally: the strong prey on the weak and thats it period.

The strong does not care if you are a man or a woman. Only if you are weak and will accept the lowest offer.

Hell I turned down buying a car 3 days ago cus they couldnt match my price.

I got a phone call today that they would do it.

Why? Cus I didnt really want the car, so I said no to their bottom line offer.

If you really want the job? Youre gonna get payed less.

Man

or woman.

[JurisDictum]

So once again ... do either of you actually know even a single person who identifies as a feminist, let alone multiple people active in the movement? Or are you basing all this on your imaginary preconceptions of who feminists (that you've never met) are?

So I read that and thought to myself "no bullshit -- who do you know that identifies as feminist." Besides some wealthy lesbians in California I don't know too well, probably my older brother's wife. That's it out of all socialists/leftists I know well. None of the others want that label. It was only at college I ever found a lot of identification with that label.

This is a quick recap of my brother's wife:

Worked at Burger Restaurant (supposedly wanted to be a Message Therapist) -- hooked up with my brother who was outwardly claiming to be looking for nothing serious and just wanting to have fun. My brother is no player though so he ended up attached to her. Nice score for the Red Robbin girl -- my brother has a trust fund and a business.

Marries him quits her job has two kids*. When she is not busy bitching about how overwhelmed she is being a mom -- She will go on Facebook and write posts in support of black lives matter, feminism etc.

Lots of selfies and pictures with her and her kids on vacations and wearing nice cloths...and some stuff about feminism and the pay gap patriarchy etc...

She is a real bitch to my brother's ex-wife who doesn't have a trust fund husband anymore. Lots of rumor-mongering about how dysfunctional she is and mentally ill.

So that's it -- that's the "feminist" I know. She probably has the same bullshit "I support equality" minimalist definition you do. Even though this is highly misleading and implies there are significant numbers of people that disagree with equality.

My mom was a single mother of 2 from a poor background that got a professional degree sometime in the 80s -- she doesn't identify as a feminist...I'm guessing because she had real problems.

*even though my brother already had 2 and was upfront day 1 about not wanting more

[Lhancelot]

If you really want the job? Youre gonna get payed less.

Man

or woman.

Why do women get paid less across the board than men if things are equal between the sexes? I should clarify this better, why are women not offered the same higher paying jobs as men? This is just one clear stat that no one can dispute. Men are paid more than women and are offered higher paid jobs period. Why is this? Because women want the job more, so they get paid less? To think the world in America is equal for men and women you'd have to be delusional or crazy, or just in denial.

[mickmoranis]

Why do women get paid less across the board than men if things are equal between the sexes? This is just one clear stat that no one can dispute. Men are paid more than women, period. Why is this? Because women want the job more, so they get paid less? To think the world in America is equal for men and women you'd have to be delusional or crazy, or just in denial.

because they dont? https://fee.org/articles/truth-and-myth-on-the-gender-pay-gap/

personally I believe that you have conditioned women into thinking they are going to be treated worse than men so they go in more desperate and worried that they are going to get turned down altogethre because of sexism.

It puts them at a weaker position than men, who are told that they will get more than the deserve, so they go in with confidence.

Yall need better parenting, not feminism.

quit worrying about other parents kids, if they raise them to think they deserve less, that means your kid who was raised propper knows they can get more thanks to those suckers.

[Pokesan]

loramin is a FUCKING TERF

[mickmoranis]

whats interesting to me is libtards have less children than conservatives, they tend to go full blown childless at a higher rate altogether.

But they are the ones that are more concerned with parenting than actual parents!

Why not have your own kids and stop trying to make the government parent everyone else's?

[hyejin]

I'm not the greatest fan of proverbs (o^^o)

secures eye contact with chin guidance, then pats crown with smirk

[JurisDictum]

You know college could teach that the pay gap statistic is not about just flat being paid less for same work same experience. But they usually don't. They gloss over that factoid and don't test on it.

None of the 20-something catch it. It's not real. Not your actually going to be paid 20% less when your hired next to johnny or in 5 years....not unless you take time off work to have kids -- the real reason behind a huge portion of the pay gap.

As far as men being paid more because they take higher paying jobs....very rarely is this about being biased against women these days. Maybe some of those blue collar union jobs and Military.*

They could teach that 1/4 college girls are probably not raped...but would rather keep the shit going. Just try -- as a good little girl feminist -- questioning that statistic sometime in class and see how the room reacts. You would have better luck debating theology with a priest. They literally just wont talk about it. Can't do it -- that's sexist.

It's like these statistical malpractice cases are why people hate feminism -- and they just keep spouting it out. Like it's on purpose.

*Edit: This has more to do with stuff like girls not being encouraged to computer program as much as boys in school. Little things like that have a big impact with computer programers make way more money than people with a similar level of trianing in another area. Not a lot of talk about chicks doing math though. Sore subject because most don't want to (I blame culture not nature).

[Rader]

Why do women get paid less across the board than men if things are equal between the sexes? I should clarify this better, why are women not offered the same higher paying jobs as men? This is just one clear stat that no one can dispute. Men are paid more than women and are offered higher paid jobs period. Why is this? Because women want the job more, so they get paid less? To think the world in America is equal for men and women you'd have to be delusional or crazy, or just in denial.

There are many reasons why one gender could make more money than the other, without discrimination being involved. One may value their families more than their career, one may choose careers based on personal fulfillment rather than economic compensation, one may not negotiate as hard because they don't want to upset people, one may pursue money more because their sex life depends on how much they earn, etc. Any one who blames discrimination for 100 percent of the gender gap is not very bright.

[loramin]

First off:
"Falling" onto phallic-shaped objects isn't actually rape.

It is never acceptable to trivialize someone else's rape. NEVER.

loramin is a FUCKING TERF

I had to look that up:

Their position ... denies that trans people's self-affirmed genders and sexes are equally valid as cis people's self-affirmed genders and sexes. It has a decades-long history of allying with anti-feminist causes in denying trans people access to health care, and other human rights.

Hell no! I totally support transgender people ... even my crazy transgender comic book artist friend who supposedly has been a transgender female for a couple of years, yet still doesn't look feminine in any way, shape, or form (and in fact sports a healthy beard) ... because the way I see it everyone, no matter what they think about themselves, deserves to be equal in our society.

[mickmoranis]

There are many reasons why one gender could make more money than the other, without discrimination being involved. One may value their families more than their career, one may choose careers based on personal fulfillment rather than economic compensation, one may not negotiate as hard because they don't want to upset people, one may pursue money more because their sex life depends on how much they earn, etc. Any one who blames discrimination for 100 percent of the gender gap is not very bright.

also because women are conditioned by libtards to think that even if they try to get more money, they wont, so why try at all?

Self defeating idiology is what it is.

Same thing goes for blacks in america.

If you aint got a shot in life, why even take one?

Its very sad.

Libs will wrestle with EVERY kind of social construct having an influence in peoples life, but the second you tell them that maybe their ranting and raving about false realities and insisting that people are victims, might have a negative effect? NO THATS HERESY! BURN THE INFIDEL!!

[maskedmelon]

The massive amount of misinformation about feminism here is overwhelming. You guys are Don Quixote, fighting windmill monsters that don't exist. In fact, I'm willing to bet that I'm the only one in this thread who has actually known multiple real-life people involved in the feminist movement. The vast majority of you probably don't know even know one, and many likely don't even know anyone who identifies as a feminist.

The "glorification of dominance, aggression and violence" is antithetical to the feminist movement (going back to the very earliest days when temperance and feminism overlapped). Now melon if I understand your point, it's that "well they don't like that stuff, but they're stupid and do stupid counterproductive things which ultimately results in the glorification of dominance, aggression and violence" ... to which I say bullshit.

of course you do and that is part of the reason why I did not bother investing anymore in my last post than i did. this became evident in our last exchange :c had you any genuine
interest in propagating truth, or even understanding, you'd have worked with me in a focused discussion by answering my questions OR asking more of your own.

Instead, you want a source war. I'm sorry, but I don't know what information you need to make sense of my argument and I neither catalogue nor remember much of anything. I'm neither interested in nor capable of shoving piles of information back and forth. i do however possess an exceptional talent for discrimination and offered it for your use, but you just ignored it :c

you write a lot and have a lot of information ^^ I cannot address everything you say at once, nor am I interested in addressing every tangent you introduce when you ignore the substance of my argument :c

Or at least, you have to back such an extraordinary claim up with something: I can claim the Republican party has a pro-gay agenda (and back it up by showing all the stupid things Republicans have done historically that have ultimately furthered gay rights) ... but that'd be a stupid argument to make. I certainly wouldn't just say "Republicans <3 gays: you are probably better equipped to figure it out than i am to explain it".

As for "adherents of radical feminism believe that egalitarianism means eradicating the desire for men and women to partake in domination games", these "radical feminists" are almost exclusively in people's imagination. I mean sure, you can find crazy people willing to say crazy things on any side of an argument, but again I have known a lot of feminists, and none of them were anything like that.

In fact they were all, every last one of them, far more sex-positive than your average person. They generally had a much better understanding of the concept that the human brain (and thus sex) is weird, and that there's nothing wrong with weirdness like BDSM as long as both parties are consenting and having fun.



Crazy, insane liberal stuff, like greater legal protection against discrimination, harassment, rape and abuse, better support of women in abusive relationships, equal pay for equal work (the details of how to implement this one issue probably does vary between liberals/conservatives), elimination of child marriage, access to abortion (and female healthcare in general) for all women, more teaching of STEM to young girls, etc.

[hyejin]

Hell no! I totally support transgender people ... even my crazy transgender comic book artist friend who supposedly has been a transgender female for a couple of years, yet still doesn't look feminine in any way, shape, or form (and in fact sports a healthy beard) ... because the way I see it everyone, no matter what they think about themselves, deserves to be equal in our society.

This doesn't read like support. You dole out the appearance of respect to her, while name-checking her for virtue points, even though you've determined she's not the real deal huh? You're a paragon :D

[Pokesan]

supposedly eh? who are you to judge the validity of her identity?

bigot

[Lhancelot]

also because women are conditioned by libtards to think that even if they try to get more money, they wont, so why try at all?

Self defeating idiology is what it is.

Same thing goes for blacks in america.

If you aint got a shot in life, why even take one?

Its very sad.


How did this thought originally get in their minds if things are so equal? I suppose you will say women and blacks used to be unfairly treated and now they simply feel they are unfairly treated and it's simply not the case now, right?

[mickmoranis]

This doesn't read like support. You dole out the appearance of respect to her, while name-checking her for virtue points, even though you've determined she's not the real deal huh? You're a paragon :D

this is exactly the type of self defeating idiology I am talking about in the top post of this page.

Only way more blaytent

[maskedmelon]

secures eye contact with chin guidance, then pats crown with smirk

*turns a bit red and smiles brightly* (o^^o)*

[mickmoranis]

I suppose you will say women and blacks used to be unfairly treated and now they simply feel they are unfairly treated and it's simply not the case now, right?

yes, I suppose you think the way someone used to be treated generations ago, somehow has an effect on how people are treated today (I mean besides you libs saying that they are less than in every way, emotionally destroying their ability to grow and maintain their equal footing in America)

[loramin]

yes, I suppose you think the way someone used to be treated generations ago, somehow has an effect on how people are treated today (I mean besides you libs saying that they are less than in every way, emotionally destroying their ability to grow and maintain their equal footing in America)

Yeah, it's insane. Like people should totally just be able to go from slavery, to Jim Crow, to being exactly like their former slave owners, because their past doesn't have any effect whatsoever on their present/future.

[loramin]

This doesn't read like support. You dole out the appearance of respect to her, while name-checking her for virtue points, even though you've determined she's not the real deal huh? You're a paragon :D

supposedly eh? who are you to judge the validity of her identity?

bigot

This was exactly the point I was trying to make. To all outward appearances (ie. everything I have to go on) my friend is a male who falsely claims to be transgender. But I'm not the one who gets to decide his/her sexuality/gender.

It's that whole "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" thing. I may disagree that my friend is actually transgender (because by my understanding of the word a "real" transgender person wants to adopt their trans gender, at least on the surface if not surgically) ... but I'll defend anyone's right to define their own gender/sexuality regardless of what others (like myself) think.

[Pokesan]

i dont see how you adding to the cacophony of criticism is helpful to your friends journey.

like, don't gatekeep k?

[JurisDictum]

Gatekeeping
When someone takes it upon themselves to decide who does or does not have access or rights to a community or identity.
"I love punk bands like Green Day!"
"Ugh, they're not even punk. They totally sold out."

"Oh man, I love Harry Potter. I am such a geek!"
"Hardly. Talk to me when you're into theoretical physics."

"Erika Moen is my favorite queer cartoonist."
"She's not queer, she married a man!"
"Quit your gatekeeping. No one died and made you Queen of the Gays!"

Seriously though -- that bitch isn't gay if she married a man.

[loramin]

of course you do and that is part of the reason why I did not bother investing anymore in my last post than i did. this became evident in our last exchange :c had you any genuine
interest in propagating truth, or even understanding, you'd have worked with me in a focused discussion by answering my questions OR asking more of your own.

Instead, you want a source war. I'm sorry, but I don't know what information you need to make sense of my argument and I neither catalogue nor remember much of anything. I'm neither interested in nor capable of shoving piles of information back and forth. i do however possess an exceptional talent for discrimination and offered it for your use, but you just ignored it :c

People in this forum say a lot of crazy, if not flat out false things (I'm looking at you Mick ;)). Anyone can repeat whatever stupid thing someone they idolize (their favorite radio talk show host, tv news personality, blogger, etc.) says, no matter how false it may be. All I'm asking is that when people say things that sound crazy to me, that they somehow explain where that crazy belief is coming from, so that I can honestly consider whether they have a legitimate point or are just spouting baseless beliefs.

I'm not looking for an essay with footnotes for ten primary sources, I'm just saying if you (not you specifically, the general you) say all BLM protesters are violent psychopaths, I'm going to ask you to show me something that suggests that all BLM protesters are violent psychopaths. And if the thing you show me is some random guy's blog, or something not even related to the conversation (again, looking at you Mick), I'm going to call you out on it.

you write a lot and have a lot of information ^^ I cannot address everything you say at once, nor am I interested in addressing every tangent you introduce when you ignore the substance of my argument :c

I respond to the stuff I disagree with, or the stuff I really strongly agree with. I'm not sure exactly what substance of what argument you are referring to (this thread is 20+ pages long), but most likely I just agreed with most of it and singled out one part because it (unlike the rest of what you wrote) seemed wrong to me.

[mickmoranis]

Yeah, it's insane. Like people should totally just be able to go from slavery, to Jim Crow, to being exactly like their former slave owners, because their past doesn't have any effect whatsoever on their present/future.

So you can make the connection between hundreds of years of changes in civil rights and political evolution and even a civil war, to the way people are treated, but you cannot, for the life of you, admit that perhaps your actions might also be contributing to the struggle you are so desperate to fix?

You cannot even for a second out of fear of becoming a racist yourself, even discuss that perhaps culturally blacks are suffering because of their own actions and that they are infact culturally more inclined to commit crimes in disproportionatly larger numbers?

The difference between me and you is I am willing to admit that there are a multitude of reasons as to why black people are struggling in modern society, you however believe that it was only the actions of people in the past, that you are morally superior, and that anything else is insane.

[Pokesan]

on the one hand he did make her identity about how great he is for accepting her despite not passing in his eyes

but on the other hand im just writing these things to torment him for fun

[Lhancelot]

yes, I suppose you think the way someone used to be treated generations ago, somehow has an effect on how people are treated today (I mean besides you libs saying that they are less than in every way, emotionally destroying their ability to grow and maintain their equal footing in America)

Just ignoring something doesn't mean it goes away or doesn't exist.

Just because laws now proclaim every man and woman should be treated equally in America doesn't erase the racism/sexism that future Americans are indoctrinated with.

You can't expect these problems to go away because legislation has been written to address them. Past generations of people indoctrinate future generations with the same ideologies they were taught so it's hard to break the cycle of racism and sexism.

These social issues exist, and not because we as a people pretend they exist and have created mental crutches for minorities and women.

This doesnn't mean that some people do feel like victims when they are not. This doesn't mean that some people do not try to use these as excuses. I am just saying these social issues are real, have always been real and will forever be real as long as humans exist.

[loramin]

So you can make the connection between hundreds of years of changes in civil rights and political evolution and even a civil war, to the way people are treated, but you cannot, for the life of you, admit that perhaps your actions might also be contributing to the struggle you are so desperate to fix?

You cannot even for a second out of fear of becoming a racist yourself, even discuss that perhaps culturally blacks are suffering because of their own actions and that they are infact culturally more inclined to commit crimes in disproportionatly larger numbers?

The difference between me and you is I am willing to admit that there are a multitude of reasons as to why black people are struggling in modern society, you however believe that it was only the actions of people in the past, that you are morally superior, and that anything else is insane.

Dude, it's not "hundreds of years". The civil war ended in 1865: that's less than 200 years ago. Jim Crow laws (eg. "blacks totally have equal voting rights ... they just have to pass this insanely hard literacy test that we don't give to whites if they want to vote ... it's totally equal") didn't end until the civil rights movement, which started in the 1950s.

There are people still alive in America today (a lot) who remember what the Jim Crow south was like. For instance, my high school English teacher told me a story about being pregnant with her first kid and going to a black hospital in the south, only to be told that she had to go to a white hospital because that's how things are done here. This is not ancient history.

To think that the children of people who were quite literally second class citizens in their own lifetime, should not be impacted by their parent's experiences (and their parent's, and their parent's ...) is insane.

[hyejin]

on the one hand he did make her identity about how great he is for accepting her despite not passing in his eyes

but on the other hand im just writing these things to torment him for fun

above lies a post with more umami than a roast

[Patriam1066]

Dude, it's not "hundreds of years". The civil war ended in 1865: that's less than 200 years ago. Jim Crow laws (eg. "blacks totally have equal voting rights ... they just have to pass this insanely hard literacy test that we don't give to whites if they want to vote ... it's totally equal") didn't end until the civil rights movement, which started in the 1950s.

There are people still alive in America today (and not a small amount) who still remember what the Jim Crow south was like. My English teacher even told me a story about being pregnant with her first kid and going to a black hospital in the south, only to be told that she had to go to a white hospital because that's how things are done here. This is not ancient history.

To think that the children of people who were quite literally second class citizens in their own lifetime, should not be impacted by their parent's experiences (and their parent's, and their parent's ...) is insane.

What would end racism in your opinion? Just curious

[Patriam1066]

PS: I still don't understand the success of Nigerians and the lack of their representation in prison since they are west African just like African americans

[Jimjam]

If you really want the job? Youre gonna get payed less.

Man

or woman.

I'm proud to see you haven't let a traumatic event define who you are as a person. Good job.

Totally agreed that feminism needs to be more outward looking at this point (and not just to muslims, there is shady stuff happening to women in other Asian cultures too).

On the pay gap, I do think there is actually a women's issue here that needs to be addressed. If there is a women's rag laying around, I'll generally flick through to take a look at the content. There is one issue I have never seen in a women's magazine, though I have noticed it in mens (which I probably end up reading less frequently).

The issue is that women never EVER ask for pay rises. Men do it all the time. Women never do. That is my personal experience. Women's media should be writing articles on how to ask for and secure pay rises, instead of how to give your bloke a five star blozza.

The really sad thing, is recently some bigdog exec made a similar observation; never in his career has a woman asked him for a pay rise... The statement was being covered by 'Womans Hour', a show on BBC Radio 4. Instead of saying 'yeah, this is a really interesting point, has anyone here ever asked for a pay rise? How did it pan out?' they all started shaming this guy as patriarchical, old fashioned and anti women.

[mickmoranis]

Dude, it's not "hundreds of years". The civil war ended in 1865: that's less than 200 years ago. Jim Crow laws (eg. "blacks totally have equal voting rights ... they just have to pass this insanely hard literacy test that we don't give to whites if they want to vote ... it's totally equal") didn't end until the civil rights movement, which started in the 1950s.

There are people still alive in America today (a lot) who remember what the Jim Crow south was like. For instance, my high school English teacher told me a story about being pregnant with her first kid and going to a black hospital in the south, only to be told that she had to go to a white hospital because that's how things are done here. This is not ancient history.

To think that the children of people who were quite literally second class citizens in their own lifetime, should not be impacted by their parent's experiences (and their parent's, and their parent's ...) is insane.

not once have I said that there was harm done in the past, in fact I agreed that there was, I just dont believe that you ranting about being morally superior for acknowledging that WILL HAVE ANY EFFECT AT ALL

however addressing the cultural inadequacies of those groups TODAY might, however YOU would say that is racist.

also you dismissing the civil rights movement and the real progress it has made, is an insult to the very cause you profess to be superior to others over, you are more of a burden to the cause than someone who cares not one bit about minority struggles.

[JurisDictum]

PS: I still don't understand the success of Nigerians and the lack of their representation in prison since they are west African just like African americans

That's a good thing to point out to people spouting all this pseudoscience about blacks just being plain born inferior.

I think its because they don't have a rebellious attitude toward what Bill O'reilly once called the "white establishment." They don't have a Black American accent they have a Nigerian one (or just sound white). It's not looked down on nearly as much.

[mickmoranis]

What would end racism in your opinion? Just curious

I am posting a lot, loramin I believe patraim may be overshadowed and he does deserve a clear answer, also I am curious what is your 5 point plan?

[mickmoranis]

PS: I still don't understand the success of Nigerians and the lack of their representation in prison since they are west African just like African americans

can u elaborate on this?

If the stats are, nigerians go to prison at a far less rate than african americans, in america.

My guess would be, african american culture is fucking awful and encourages violence and crime in every way it possibly can, and nigerians are superior simply because they are not raised in america and told the same horse shit americans are about how black people have no hope at success because the system is trying to keep them down and that if you want to get up on it you gotta hustle and break the law (because the laws are only there to hurt you anyway).

With that being said, since racism is not a problem anymore, black people who are not raised in that environment excell and black people that are, some how go to jail... then you start the blame game all over again and base it on false narritives and send more african americans to jail.

Sad

libs are at more at fault when it comes to racism "today" than any other social group in the USA

[Jimjam]

Generally immigrants immigrate because they want to work and improve their lives, and don't intend to end up in jail, whereas those bought up in a culture of ennui snapchat "LOL YOLO"?

[loramin]

What would end racism in your mind? Just curious

:D

Short answer: racism an incredibly complex and multi-layered problem which will need to be attacked from multiple angles and for a very long time before we can ever possibly consider it to be "ended".

Longer answer; it's not "five points" but ...

You don't fix deep-rooted societal issues overnight. You have to change people's minds, and with stuff that's as deeply entrenched as institutional racism that can mean going through not just one but multiple generations of people, as each new generation is able to progress with less of the hang-ups from their parents.

But practically speaking I see a few clear ways to help end it, and to tell whether or not it has been ended.


The Justice System - will be fixed when all races are treated equally in the justice system (eg. when blacks get the same sentences for the equivalent crimes as whites). How do we get there? Partly it's a public perception problem, and partly it's the responsibility of municipalities and police departments to setup measures (eg. body cameras) which discourage racism, and of legal workers to study sentences given and try to correct for racial inequities.
Public Perception - will be fixed when society sees all races equally ... in other words when white's don't think black people experience less pain (https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=201128359), when peoples' (even black peoples') heart rate doesn't rise when a black man enters the room (https://news.uns.purdue.edu/html4ever/1998/9808.Vrana.race.html), etc. How do we get there? Artists have to make a change. The people behind TV, movies, etc. need to cast blacks (and other minorities) in to normal/generic/white roles, so that society doesn't always see them being portrayed as criminals and cops.
Economics - will be fixed when you can't predict a person's socio-economic status in any way from their race. This means both doing outreach to open up career paths that are not traditionally "black" (eg. programming) and ensuring that black workers make equal pay (for equal work) as their white co-workers. How do we get there? I think this problem is so massive and woven into society that the government has to play a part, but at the same time I don't think you can have the government (say) give free college to all black kids. Instead, I think we need to change our educational and recruiting efforts to target poor people of any ethnicity and get them in to successful careers they wouldn't otherwise have. Since minorities tend to be poorer, such efforts by definition will help them more, and if you repeat this cycle (again, over a long time) you can eventually get to equality.
Other stuff which I'd defer to experts on; I'm certainly no expert on solving racial problems.

[maskedmelon]

Just wanna point out that the Jews were slaves too. They went straight from slavery to wandering a desert for 40 years before pulling up their bootstraps and reclaiming their homeland. 600 years later they slew god. They were second class citizens beneath a pagan empire, but outmaneuvered their oppressors to WIN. all it took was a little effort, a fair amount of cunning and a whole lotta DESIRE.

what's your excuse?

#hardworkpays
#nomoreexcuses
#i<3katyperry

[mickmoranis]

Generally immigrants immigrate because they want to work and improve their lives, and don't intend to end up in jail, whereas those bought up in a culture of ennui snapchat "LOL YOLO"?

that is a more socially acceptable way to say what I said tho :o

however it doesnt point out the real problem. Black culture is not condusive to growth :(

that is not racism, i am sad about it, and im not saying all blacks are X or Y but I am saying black culture today is bad.

is it cus we jailed all the dads 30 years ago? Maybe.

Is being self riotous cus you say that is the case going to help? no.

[Lhancelot]

#i<3katyperry

https://i.imgur.com/o6yZrxG.jpg

[mickmoranis]

:D

Short answer: racism an incredibly complex and multi-layered problem which will need to be attacked from multiple angles and for a very long time before we can ever possibly consider it to be "ended".

Longer answer; it's not "five points" but ...

You don't fix deep-rooted societal issues overnight. You have to change people's minds, and with stuff that's as deeply entrenched as institutional racism that can mean going through not just one but multiple generations of people, as each new generation is able to progress with less of the hang-ups from their parents.

But practically speaking I see a few clear ways to help end it, and to tell whether or not it has been ended.


The Justice System - will be fixed when all races are treated equally in the justice system (eg. when blacks get the same sentences for the equivalent crimes as whites). How do we get there? Partly it's a public perception problem, and partly it's the responsibility of municipalities and police departments to setup measures (eg. body cameras) which discourage racism, and of legal workers to study sentences given and try to correct for racial inequities.
Public Perception - will be fixed when society sees all races equally ... in other words when white's don't think black people experience less pain (https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=201128359), when peoples' (even black peoples') heart rate doesn't rise when a black man enters the room (https://news.uns.purdue.edu/html4ever/1998/9808.Vrana.race.html), etc. How do we get there? Artists have to make a change. The people behind TV, movies, etc. need to cast blacks (and other minorities) in to normal/generic/white roles, so that society doesn't always see them being portrayed as criminals and cops.
Economics - will be fixed when you can't predict a person's socio-economic status in any way from their race. This means both doing outreach to open up career paths that are not traditionally "black" (eg. programming) and ensuring that black workers make equal pay (for equal work) as their white co-workers. How do we get there? I think this problem is so massive and woven into society that the government has to play a part, but at the same time I don't think you can have the government (say) give free college to all black kids. Instead, I think we need to change our educational and recruiting efforts to target poor people of any ethnicity and get them in to successful careers they wouldn't otherwise have. Since minorities tend to be poorer, such efforts by definition will help them more, and if you repeat this cycle (again, over a long time) you can eventually get to equality.
Other stuff which I'd defer to experts on; I'm certainly no expert on solving racial problems.


I am an expert so here.

point 1 - Police are "racist" when theyre in ghettos that you would be to afraid to even drive through, so stop pretending that police are racist in the vast majority of places outside of them.

2 - society does see all race equally but when a black person dresses like a gangbanger you're supposed to also see them the same way as the black guy on the other side of the isle who is wearing cargo shorts and a super hero t shirt.

3 - if you are in contact with people who think black people feel less pain than white people, than I suggest you move cus you live in an unfixable part of missisippi and have no hope at a decent life there.

4 - you cannot predict a persons economic state unless you look at how they dress and by the numbers black people who are not poor dress poor and therefore people make assumptions about them. (so their heart rate rises)

[Jimjam]

Just wanna point out that the Jews were slaves too. They went straight from slavery to wandering a desert for 40 years before pulling up their bootstraps and reclaiming their homeland. 600 years later they slew god. They were second class citizens beneath a pagan empire, but outmaneuvered their oppressors to WIN. all it took was a little effort, a fair amount of cunning and a whole lotta DESIRE.

what's your excuse?

#hardworkpays
#nomoreexcuses
#i<3katyperry

Every people has been a slave at some point.

Some would argue that even in modern societies, the lower echelons of the work force still are. The genius thing is these 'slaves' have been made 'self owned', so now they are responsible for their own health, wellbeing and costs, which saves money for those that benefit from the 'slavelike' labour, and absolves the slaveusers from responsibility for the slaves, making the 'slaves' even more churn and burn / disposable.

Making debt non-inheritable is probably a good idea if you want generations of 'fake' slaves.

[loramin]

Just wanna point out that the Jews were slaves too. They went straight from slavery to wandering a desert for 40 years before pulling up their bootstraps and reclaiming their homeland. 600 years later they slew god. They were second class citizens beneath a pagan empire, but outmaneuvered their oppressors to WIN. all it took was a little effort, a fair amount of cunning and a whole lotta DESIRE.

what's your excuse?

#hardworkpays
#nomoreexcuses
#i<3katyperry

The Jews are a very interesting case, because they're different even from other "model minorities" (eg. Japanese and Korean immigrants). What makes the Jews special is, ironically, laws created by Christians. Christians weren't allowed to lend money, and Jews weren't allowed to own land, so these Christian laws all but forced Jews to go into banking, money-lending, and mercantilism. It turns out that being involved with money while everyone around you isn't is kind of good for accumulating money, and when you apply that over hundreds and hundreds of years you get their out-sized influence (which is not to say that a secret cabal of Jews runs the world, just that on average in many countries a Jew will have more money/influence than the average non-Jewish citizen).

Contrast that with people who literally owned nothing less than 200 years ago, had no such laws benefiting them (ironically, although those laws were meant to hurt the Jews, they wound up being helpful) and I think it becomes a lot clearer how one "former slave group" could be vastly more successful than another former slave group (and that's not even accounting for the wealth of other factors that separate Jews from blacks).