Cheating everywhere, GMs???

[Profyx]

Stunningly, you’re obviously either playing dumb or really don’t understand. Even a GINA trigger to your ear, that’s tells your brain to go, that tells you to press your finger takes time. You pressing the mouse button when your eye sees the screen go red to green us similar stimulus and input that takes time. No one’s trying to read the 909+ roll, we all have Gina triggers.

Are you really this dense or are you playin g stupid?? E whiting minds want to know.

Maybe you should research Audio Reaction time vs Visual reaction time. You realize your sense take different pathways to the brain?

[Kaitainz]

No way I can do 100ms. I did get under 150 a couple times tho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E44mZUcTsxo

I dont know why visual reaction time is even being discussed. If you're looking at a text window when a roll is happening you're already going to lose.

By OP’s video, and your ping of 100-115 ms, and your average reaction time of 170-177, not including your outliers of trying to beat it, you just yourself proved that you reacting to Gina in 50 ms is absolutely impossible. Thank you.

Most videos I have seen show you moving at frame 12-15, every single time. That’s A HELK IF A LOT LOWER reaction time then you yourself just posted at an average of 170…

[Kaitainz]

You just outed yourself with video evidence bro. What’s 12-15 frames at 69 FoS my math wizards? 50 ms reaction time, yes?

[Delekhan]

The GMs aren't going to comment because they cannot prove cheating is taking place. If it's happening and the devs are aware of it, they may find a way to detect and only then would they break out a ban hammer. Until then if indeed there is a script being used then it's the new meta.

[Kaitainz]

Maybe you should research Audio Reaction time vs Visual reaction time. You realize your sense take different pathways to the brain?

You still have to push that button with your finger. And 12-15 frames at 60 fps = 50 ms. A hell of a lot less then then average 170 you’re getting.

[Profyx]

By OP’s video, and your ping of 100-115 ms, and your average reaction time of 170-177, not including your outliers of trying to beat it, you just yourself proved that you reacting to Gina in 50 ms is absolutely impossible. Thank you.

Most videos I have seen show you moving at frame 12-15, every single time. That’s A HELK IF A LOT LOWER reaction time then you yourself just posted at an average of 170…

lets say on average I move at frame 14. 14 frames at 60 fps is 186. Thanks for playing

[Kaitainz]

Of course, u less you’re not actually having to push that button…

[Profyx]

You still have to push that button with your finger. And 12-15 frames at 60 fps = 50 ms. A hell of a lot less then then average 170 you’re getting.

You are literally handicap. I cant even argue with someone who doesn't know how to do math.

[Kaitainz]

lets say on average I move at frame 14. 14 frames at 60 fps is 186. Thanks for playing

Now add your ping in, which is know, you’re suddenly too fast again…

[Profyx]

Correction 14 frames 233ms for 186. I failed math.

[Kaitainz]

I’ll give you that one. It was 0.2, I messed up the button pressing. See, I admit when wrong, lol.

[Caball]

bout to say that math is a little bit trash

[Profyx]

I’ll give you that one. It was 0.2, I messed up the button pressing. See, I admit when wrong, lol.

I can appreciate that

[Akg49]

Everyone uses audio for racing lol. You'd have to be stupid not to. Still inhuman reaction times, obvious cheating on Stunningly.

Change to a crawl! No cheating other than sweet classic, classic training.

[Tunabros]

p99 raiding was a mistake

[tacomagradd]

The GMs aren't going to comment because they cannot prove cheating is taking place. If it's happening and the devs are aware of it, they may find a way to detect and only then would they break out a ban hammer. Until then if indeed there is a script being used then it's the new meta.

To change things on p99 the burden of proof doesn't have to be 100%. CSR changed ring war and Galach told players top "stop cheating and it wouldn't be a roll." CSR didn't bring out the ban hammer for that, afaik. CSR didn't produce proof of cheating, and they didn't punish individuals (other than to change the rules of the turn in).

Honestly, real competitors wouldn't fear some change in the meta. All the defensiveness just stinks of guilt, especially when Vanq sends out its PR army to throw whatever they possibly can at the wall to discredit this guy's research. In a super old elf sim, the only way to mix up the competition and put a new spin on the game is to change the meta. So why not just embrace it? Could be fun.

That said, no one should be surprised that those benefiting from the cheating will do everything they can to defend, deflect, etc. Just remember these jokers trying to deny Klaz's obvious Vulak train, way back when.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his [pixels] depend upon his not understanding it." -Upton Sinclair



-Jute

[Tongpow]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/disgstd.gif

[Pint]

You spent months on this while your guild was dying when you couldve spent 5 minutes with auto hotkey and your guild would've started winning? You should rethink your priorities.

[Toxigen]

Those are solid times for a visual reaction test. Sound reaction would be faster by a decent amount too.

ding ding ding

[Samoht]

Everyone uses audio for racing lol. You'd have to be stupid not to. Still inhuman reaction times, obvious cheating on Stunningly.

The baseline of the video is a site testing visual cues. Since Stunningly has openly shared his method, we now know the video is now proven 100% debunked.

[fritzad1]

Lol the amount of experts in here on the defense. Samoht posts so much. Guilty conscience mayhaps.

[Samoht]

Lol the amount of experts in here on the defense. Samoht posts so much. Guilty conscience mayhaps.

Riot strategy lately: if you can't win with skill then throw around some baseless accusations and keep up the farce until GMs make make a change that benefits you just to stop your complaining.

We'll call it: The Arcler method.

[Ringi]

Riot strategy lately: if you can't win with skill then throw around some baseless accusations and keep up the farce until GMs make make a change that benefits you just to stop your complaining.

We'll call it: The Arcler method.

Yes, the data provided is totally baseless :D Maybe you should think before you speak.

[Ringi]

Crazy to think, if all it took was a GINA Trigger warning, why cant any other neckbeards do it as well and consistently.

Help us clear it up, why don't you just provide the evidence that no shenanigans are going on? You'll shoot holes in an argument all day long but wont put any effort into showing us why you're right. The burden of proof is now on you.

[Samoht]

The burden of proof is now on you.

That's not how this works. Riot has proposed that Stunningly is cheating. Their "proof" is a video that sets a baseline using a third party website that's testing something completely different and some terrible math that tries to measure the latency of two people racing in kael using the FPS from a third person. When tested against an admitted cheater (who is actually in Riot, mind you), the accused party loses ultimately debunking their own "proof" that he's cheating.

This is nothing more than a witch hunt so Riot can get more free pixels.

I'm sorry the GMs saw right through your scam this time.

Now if Riot is done crying wolf, maybe you can go practice on trak, gore, and trips some more to prepare for the next quake.

[Detoxx]

Were you not around months ago when they tried to post it as evidence of riot cheating and then tried to walk it back super hard once they realized that riot had forewarned the staff that they would script in order to prove vanquish had been scripting?

Literally most embarrassing thing I’ve seen happen to a guild in a long time, but happy it happened to vanquish because any guild that has Furoar or Detoxx in it is a joke lol

Lol you think Kickenit forewarned the staff that he was about to cheat to prove a point? No. He thinks we're cheating and pulled a Catherine. She did the same shit with autofire and was banned (another confirmed Riot cheater).

This statement right here sums up how wrong the OP is whether he did or did not tell the staff, though, so thanks.

If he did tell the staff they would have for sure seen this video and analyzed it and came to the conclusion Stunningly was scripting. They did not.

If he did not tell the staff then he and Riot are all liars and their credibility is zero. This is most likely the case and kickenit was just cheating to try to save his guild and then the discord messages were leaked and he had to save face.

This is no different than Riot crying and trying to spin a narrative that we cheated in Growth and were wrong. Thankfully the staff isn't falling for this bullshit again.

Sorry Kittens won't save you any more Riot. You are now the 5th? Best guild here and its right where you belong.

[Nibblewitz]

They don’t understand proof or evidence; just look at those PD train videos.

[Ringi]

That's not how this works. Riot has proposed that Stunningly is cheating. Their "proof" is a video that sets a baseline using a third party website that's testing something completely different and some terrible math that tries to measure the latency of two people racing in kael using the FPS from a third person. When tested against an admitted cheater (who is actually in Riot, mind you), the accused party loses ultimately debunking their own "proof" that he's cheating.

This is nothing more than a witch hunt so Riot can get more free pixels.

I'm sorry the GMs saw right through your scam this time.

Now if Riot is done crying wolf, maybe you can go practice on trak, gore, and trips some more to prepare for the next quake.

Yeah, this is how it should work. I'm not saying you need to prove it to me, or every single member of this community up front, but between the accused and the GMs of this server, there should be some transparency throughout the decision making. To date, all you do is deflect and say some dumb shit and beat your chest. It's cringey. I don't give a shit about pixels, I like to play and have a good time, and the way your guild conducts and interacts with others on the server is ruining the experience.

Have fun sitting at your login in screen waiting for your twitter announcements so you can warmbody some dumb dragon while the rest of the world goes on without you.

[Arvan]

“Oh shit we were caught cheating guys - quick send 15 people to spam the page with “but were innocent now here’s a deflection.”

[Nibblewitz]

Shows some smoke, then demand that others prove it’s actually fire.

lol

[Ringi]

“Oh shit we were caught cheating guys - quick send 15 people to spam the page with “but were innocent now here’s a deflection.”

:D

Do you think the russian trolls are behind this one too?

[Ringi]

Shows some smoke, then demand that others prove it’s actually fire.

lol

About the most smoke any one of us non-GMs/Stunningly can provide. What would you claim then as good enough evidence? Do you want us to hack into your computer to see whether or not our smoke is good enough?

[Nibblewitz]

The person that made the positive claim must provide evidence of their claim. If the evidence isn’t good enough, go back to the drawing board.

Riot cheated to try and prove that Vanquish cheated. They failed to convince anyone.

[Nibblewitz]

Sat on the GMs desk for three months. They likely dismantled the case in about as much time as we did.

[Ringi]

Please provide the community what acceptable evidence to Vanquish is so we can regroup and reassess.

[Ringi]

Sat on the GMs desk for three months. They likely dismantled the case in about as much time as we did.

Well, that's just like, your opinion man.

[Nibblewitz]

Prove that Stunningly is using a program to move his character in game.

[Ringi]

I believe OP already proved it's possible. Thanks for playing!

[Nibblewitz]

Proof is possibility now?

[Nibblewitz]

To date, we have actual evidence of Riot cheating but no evidence of Vanquish cheating.

[Ringi]

Ok, well if that isn't good enough for you then, maybe we should see if we can hire a hacker on Fiverr to do the job for us then. /s

What the fuck, in your opinion, is in the realm of possibilities that we Peons have access to without access to the server/his computer data?

[Nibblewitz]

This is the same logic with PD. It’s possible that Vanquish trained, so Vanquish must have trained.

[Ringi]

Yep, you got it dude.

You're really great at logic and also Everquest.

[Trexller]

this thread went 30 pages in 24 hrs

is that a record?

[Bardp1999]

Could you not test this theory with a /random 901 1000 and see if the roll triggers people into automatically running? Do /shout SCRIPTING TEST - NO SPAWN - DO NOT RUN and then pop the roll and watch the machines leap into action.

[Ringi]

Probably not. The GINA trigger probably goes off of the /ran 0 1000 spam message. It would say 901 to 1000 in your case and probably wouldn't meet the criteria of what GINA is looking for.

[Bardp1999]

you might be able to fool GINA with a /emote

[Ringi]

you might be able to fool GINA with a /emote

Possibly, but depends on how well designed the script is. It'd definitely be a different spam.

That said, now that this is out there, it's likely, if there WAS any scripting/autofiring (again, we cannot prove cheating without the GMs help, but it definitely appears fishy), unless the accused are the most cavalier, it probably won't be used until people forget about this thread.

[xdrcfrx]

there are two parallel issues here, which are being conflated.

1) Did/does Stunningly cheat by using some kind of script to begin the race when his log file registers a /random of 900+? This is, of course, not provable. The evidence for it presented by the OP in the video is, imo, persuasive because of the statistical analysis which calls into question how one person can so consistently perform at basically beyond-human reaction speed. Whether or not this is enough to punish Stunningly is ultimately a GM judgment call - presumably, since this very drama played out several months ago, it is not. This does not exonerate Stunningly - a finding of not guilty is not the same as actually being innocent.

2) Is it possible, generally, to cheat the start of races that have a /random roll off as the condition on which runners can go? This is shown unequivocally to be true. Kickenit demonstrated just how easy someone could cheat these races. All of the hand waiving and deflection doesn't change the fact that we know for certain that someone who wants to set up an automated start to get a good jump off the line can do so with very little difficulty. This is actually the more important of these two issues, as it calls into question the legitimacy not just of a single player, but of the method to competing for FTE itself.

Coth racing was removed because it *could* be cheated. The Badain turn in was changed because it *could* be cheated. Scout is a roll and not a clickfest because it *could* be cheated. Just because no one specific was ever penalized doesn't mean the cheating wasn't happening, and GM's aren't required to have 95%+ confidence variable statistical certainty to change how things operate.

This isn't necessarily justification for punishing Stunningly or Vanquish. It should be justification for getting rid of footraces in favor of almost anything else, though.

[cd288]

there are two parallel issues here, which are being conflated.

1) Did/does Stunningly cheat by using some kind of script to begin the race when his log file registers a /random of 900+? This is, of course, not provable. The evidence for it presented by the OP in the video is, imo, persuasive because of the statistical analysis which calls into question how one person can so consistently perform at basically beyond-human reaction speed. Whether or not this is enough to punish Stunningly is ultimately a GM judgment call - presumably, since this very drama played out several months ago, it is not. This does not exonerate Stunningly - a finding of not guilty is not the same as actually being innocent.

2) Is it possible, generally, to cheat the start of races that have a /random roll off as the condition on which runners can go? This is shown unequivocally to be true. Kickenit demonstrated just how easy someone could cheat these races. All of the hand waiving and deflection doesn't change the fact that we know for certain that someone who wants to set up an automated start to get a good jump off the line can do so with very little difficulty. This is actually the more important of these two issues, as it calls into question the legitimacy not just of a single player, but of the method to competing for FTE itself.

Coth racing was removed because it *could* be cheated. The Badain turn in was changed because it *could* be cheated. Scout is a roll and not a clickfest because it *could* be cheated. Just because no one specific was ever penalized doesn't mean the cheating wasn't happening, and GM's aren't required to have 95%+ confidence variable statistical certainty to change how things operate.

This isn't necessarily justification for punishing Stunningly or Vanquish. It should be justification for getting rid of footraces in favor of almost anything else, though.

It was literally already proven months ago. Riot said they were going to script for the race to prove that Vanquish had been scripting. They literally did it as a sting operation on vanquish and proved that the vanquish character was scripting

[Ringi]

there are two parallel issues here, which are being conflated.

1) Did/does Stunningly cheat by using some kind of script to begin the race when his log file registers a /random of 900+? This is, of course, not provable. The evidence for it presented by the OP in the video is, imo, persuasive because of the statistical analysis which calls into question how one person can so consistently perform at basically beyond-human reaction speed. Whether or not this is enough to punish Stunningly is ultimately a GM judgment call - presumably, since this very drama played out several months ago, it is not. This does not exonerate Stunningly - a finding of not guilty is not the same as actually being innocent.

2) Is it possible, generally, to cheat the start of races that have a /random roll off as the condition on which runners can go? This is shown unequivocally to be true. Kickenit demonstrated just how easy someone could cheat these races. All of the hand waiving and deflection doesn't change the fact that we know for certain that someone who wants to set up an automated start to get a good jump off the line can do so with very little difficulty. This is actually the more important of these two issues, as it calls into question the legitimacy not just of a single player, but of the method to competing for FTE itself.

Coth racing was removed because it *could* be cheated. The Badain turn in was changed because it *could* be cheated. Scout is a roll and not a clickfest because it *could* be cheated. Just because no one specific was ever penalized doesn't mean the cheating wasn't happening, and GM's aren't required to have 95%+ confidence variable statistical certainty to change how things operate.

This isn't necessarily justification for punishing Stunningly or Vanquish. It should be justification for getting rid of footraces in favor of almost anything else, though.

I think I agree with this. I also wonder if anything will ever become suitable of an arrangement, outside of permanent drafts between quake events, or drastically reduced repop windows, because now the new meta is to just do whatever the fuck you want when it comes to managing your FTEs or bringing 150 people to a Vindi raid for a 30 dkp chest.

[unsunghero]

Blizz used to (maybe still does) run a program called the warden that would look at active processes. People used to think it was a privacy violation but supposedly it was programmed to disregard anything but specific 3rd party cheat software

Addon programming in WoW got quite advanced too. Some addons such as the hardcore tracker (1 death = delete char) will detect if you ever log on even for a second without the addon running by checking your /played time and comparing with the played time with the addon, and automatically flag you in its system as cheating if you do. It can also detect if you do certain in-game actions that go against Ironman rules such as accepting trades from other players before max level, or going to the auction house even for a second

Probably can’t have either of these work with p99 but if you could that could be a way to prevent cheating

[Ennewi]

Any real life sports analogy is irrelevant. There is no internet between Armstrong and his Bike, Armstrong and his muscles, etc. That is why online gaming is different. There is an intermediary between the player who is at their computer, and the other observers on different computers. That is why gaming tournaments are always done as a LAN party, to remove those factors as much as humanly possible.

But the analogy was based on psychology, not technology or a lack thereof. Still, even between these two very different settings there is one glaring similarity—the unknown that exists between competitors and those officiating over the competition, to ensure that there is no unfair advantage; whether that advantage is gained through doping or coding is irrelevant. Accountability? Soon™

Human behavior on the internet affords each user more opportunities to do what they otherwise might not in person, because of the relative anonymity. Game and forum accounts not being connected on here allows for some of that anonymity, despite the fact that this is a relatively small community. Players recognize that most punishments can be circumvented and they absolve themselves of any guilt because, according to them, it's just a game, so it doesn't matter who does what here. That dismissive attitude towards the importance of a community leads me to believe they will do anything to win. The only concern for the community they might have would be to ensure that someone, anyone shows up to be outperformed and mocked. This might be due to the fact that they're bored with decades-old NPCs in a PVE setting.

Even this thread has been turned into a competition by those who would have gained more credibility and roused less suspicion if they had instead treated the OP's evidence as an opportunity to work with others, rather than against.

[Mickets]

Sooo many games out there designed for the hyper-competitive atmosphere you all so clearly desire and we're out in kael settin up tour de france finish line cameras on our elven druids lol absolutely fascinating.

[xdrcfrx]

It was literally already proven months ago. Riot said they were going to script for the race to prove that Vanquish had been scripting. They literally did it as a sting operation on vanquish and proved that the vanquish character was scripting

Evidence was provided which I think is persuasive and would allow for an individual to conclude that Stunningly is doing that, but I don't think it can be "proven" in the sense that we cannot know it to be an absolute certainty, short of Stunningly admitting it. In the same way, Stunningly and Vanquish essentially cannot prove that he isn't doing it, because as the often repeated phrase goes: you can't prove a negative. They can rebut the claims, and they can offer alternative explanations which may or may not be persuasive, but they cannot actually *prove* that Stunningly ISN'T scripting his race starts, logically.

In any event, the important part isn't if Stunningly the individual is doing it, or even if multiple people are. The meaningful aspect of this is that the legitimacy of the actual means of competing for FTE is called into question. Without some very compelling answers, it's not unreasonable to treat footraces with a /random 1000 start as fundamentally flawed to the point of being illegitimate and therefore unfair. If what we are seeking on p99 is a place for fair competition, then this model should no longer be considered viable. The task now is to find something to replace it.

[Viscere]

You spent months on this while your guild was dying when you couldve spent 5 minutes with auto hotkey and your guild would've started winning? You should rethink your priorities.

[Chortles Snortles]

we consistently lose so that means ur cheating
test server raiding in 2022
(lol)

[Samoht]

The evidence for it presented by the OP in the video is, imo, persuasive because of the statistical analysis which calls into question how one person can so consistently perform at basically beyond-human reaction speed.

Only because you don't understand what he's saying enough to realize that it's pure bullshit.

You believe it because you want to believe it.

Not because OP was able to prove anything.

Why is someone who is practiced enough to be better than everybody always better than everybody? Hmmm... Let's think about this for a second.

[Ringi]

Only because you don't understand what he's saying enough to realize that it's pure bullshit.

You believe it because you want to believe it.

Not because OP was able to prove anything.

Why is someone who is practiced enough to be better than everybody always better than everybody? Hmmm... Let's think about this for a second.

You keep speaking without actually saying anything useful.

[Samoht]

You keep speaking without actually saying anything useful.

Nah, you keep dismissing it without any sort of counter points because it doesn't follow your narrative.

[Penish]

try logging out you fuckin sicko's, lol

[Ringi]

Nah, you keep dismissing it without any sort of counter points because it doesn't follow your narrative.

What am I dismissing? You've provided zero data to support the claim that he's not cheating.

JuSt BeLiEvE Us!!!!!! YoU SuCk So YoU ReSoRt To PeTiTioNs!!!!!111 REEEEEEEEE

[Samoht]

Nobody has proven any validity to the calculations OP has used.

Nobody has proven any relationship between the third party testing website and Stunningly's start times using non-visual cues.

Only thing Riot has done here is prove that races can be cheated. How did they do that? By admitting to cheat themselves.

Where's the punishment?

[Samoht]

You've provided zero data to support the claim that he's not cheating.

I don't have to. That's not the way evidence works.

[Ringi]

I think I'd rather bash my head against a wall. Nothing will ever be enough.

I wish this server would die so we could all find something else to do.

[xdrcfrx]

Only because you don't understand what he's saying enough to realize that it's pure bullshit.

You believe it because you want to believe it.

Not because OP was able to prove anything.

Why is someone who is practiced enough to be better than everybody always better than everybody? Hmmm... Let's think about this for a second.

not just in this thread, but in general, the things you post read like the propaganda that comes out of authoritarian regimes that expect truth itself to bend to their whims. You are essentially the p99 forum's Baghdad Bob.

In this present instance, you have failed to address what I identified as the actually meaningful part of this discussion and the video which touched it off: that it calls into question the very legitimacy of FTE footracing. I can't be certain Stunningly cheats, although personally I find the evidence persuasive enough to conclude that. because I find it exceedingly unlikely that one person could perform so far beyond the bound of normal human reaction over and over.

I can be certain, however, that if he wanted to he (or anyone else, for that matter) could easily do so, apparently with the GM's being able to detect it. That makes footraces an invalid form of competition because they are no longer the level playing field which they should be (or, alternatively, it just makes them tool assisted speed runs, and we should call them that and let everyone who wants to also set up their scripted auto starts).

[Samoht]

I think I'd rather bash my head against a wall.

Please be careful. Based on your posts in this thread, it seems like your cognitive processes are already rather impaired. I'd hazard to guess that you cannot afford to lose many more brain cells without complete loss of motor skills.

[Ringi]

I don't have to. That's not the way evidence works.

The way evidence works? That makes no sense, but I think I follow what you're trying to say.

Yeah man, the defense never has to provide evidence you're right. I bet I could go out and rob a store, and as long as me and my friends all just keep repeating 'nO We DiDdnt!!!!' I'll never go to jail.

[Samoht]

Yeah man, the defense never has to provide evidence you're right.

In the United States, the burden of the defense only has to prove beyond reasonable doubt. In this case, bad science and unrelated tests do not prove the case against Stunningly beyond reasonable doubt.

In this present instance, you have failed to address what I identified as the actually meaningful part of this discussion and the video which touched it off: that it calls into question the very legitimacy of FTE footracing. I can't be certain Stunningly cheats, although personally I find the evidence persuasive enough to conclude that. because I find it exceedingly unlikely that one person could perform so far beyond the bound of normal human reaction over and over.

So you want Kael races changed because Riot is cheating and still losing?

Wow.

[Ringi]

In the United States, the burden of the defense only has to prove beyond reasonable doubt. In this case, bad science and unrelated tests do not prove the case against Stunningly beyond reasonable doubt.



So you want Kael races changed because Riot is cheating and still losing?

Wow.

Okay, show us your evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. To date, you've provided nothing other than hot air.

[Bardp1999]

Hey mom I'm an E-Athlete

Many in this thread should consider uninstalling

[Ringi]

Hey mom I'm an E-Athlete

Many in this thread should consider uninstalling

LMAO

[xdrcfrx]

So you want Kael races changed because Riot is cheating and still losing?

Wow.

I don't really care about Riot. I'd like Kael races changed because they don't serve their intended purpose of providing a fair means of competition. Should go back to CoTH racing. At least that had a much more normal distribution of winners than footraces, which are pretty uniformly won by the same small group of people.

[Ringi]

I don't really care about Riot. I'd like Kael races changed because they don't serve their intended purpose of providing a fair means of competition. Should go back to CoTH racing. At least that had a much more normal distribution of winners than footraces, which are pretty uniformly won by the same small group of people.

This guy thinks!

[Toxigen]

Show us on the doll where Stunningly touched you.

[Samoht]

Okay, show us your evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. To date, you've provided nothing other than hot air.

I've provided plenty of doubt. I'll include it again:

The video posted by OP includes some formulae that have no basis in known reality. Please prove the formulas are applicable to the case against Stunningly.

Hint: Just because you believe you can measure the ping of two different racers using FPS from a third racer doesn't make it true.

The video posted by OP includes a third party website that tests human reaction time to unrelated cues. Please prove the testing on this site is applicable to Stunningly's non-visual cues.

Hint: Just because you believe someone cannot have quick reaction time doesn't make it true.

To summarize, Riot wants Stunningly to be guilty of cheating, and they've provided fabricated evidence that frame him of guilt because it supports their belief that he's guilty.

The only reason I can think of that a person would accept such low standards of guilt is if they were involved with the production of the "evidence" which means your opinion is moot. You're biased because you want your story to be true, and here you are lashing out because someone smarter than you is here to tell you that it's not good enough.

That or there must be something in the Kool-Aid.

[Nibblewitz]

[url]all while my guild slowly dies and the offending guild continually brags about beating us week after week.

[ArbiterBlixen]

I don't really care about Riot. I'd like Kael races changed because they don't serve their intended purpose of providing a fair means of competition. Should go back to CoTH racing. At least that had a much more normal distribution of winners than footraces, which are pretty uniformly won by the same small group of people.

I don't think Arcler is even on board with changing the rule set.

[xdrcfrx]

I don't think Arcler is even on board with changing the rule set.

I'm sure that very old, out of context, snip of a discord message from two years ago is very relevant somehow. As stated, don't really care about Riot, or Arcler really (don't get me wrong, I've got friends in Riot and have had a generally positive experience interacting with Arcler, as opposed to some other guild leaders out there). The issue is, in the post-Kickenit-Script-Video world, we can no longer have any confidence in footraces as a fair means of competition, because they can be so easily cheated. The ease is undeniable at this point.

You are in favor of continuing to prop up a flawed system because it benefits you, I get it. It makes sense, in a utilitarian way.

[Nibblewitz]

The server staff and the player base have engaged in this conversation for over a decade. First to engage, while flawed, promotes the most open and competitive experience. The GMs even implemented FTE messages that we have been using for 7 years. Don’t see this changing much on this server.

Spent 2 month, waited 3 months for an answer, my guild is dead, etc.

[Ringi]

I've provided plenty of doubt. I'll include it again:

The video posted by OP includes some formulae that have no basis in known reality. Please prove the formulas are applicable to the case against Stunningly.

Hint: Just because you believe you can measure the ping of two different racers using FPS from a third racer doesn't make it true.

The video posted by OP includes a third party website that tests human reaction time to unrelated cues. Please prove the testing on this site is applicable to Stunningly's non-visual cues.

Hint: Just because you believe someone cannot have quick reaction time doesn't make it true.

To summarize, Riot wants Stunningly to be guilty of cheating, and they've provided fabricated evidence that frame him of guilt because it supports their belief that he's guilty.

The only reason I can think of that a person would accept such low standards of guilt is if they were involved with the production of the "evidence" which means your opinion is moot. You're biased because you want your story to be true, and here you are lashing out because someone smarter than you is here to tell you that it's not good enough.

That or there must be something in the Kool-Aid.

You come across as the kind of individual that thinks defending themselves in court is a good idea. Wish you the best man. Enjoy your autistic pixels.

[Samoht]

The issue is, in the post-Kickenit-Script-Video world, we can no longer have any confidence in footraces as a fair means of competition, because they can be so easily cheated. The ease is undeniable at this point.

You are in favor of continuing to prop up a flawed system because it benefits you, I get it. It makes sense, in a utilitarian way.

So you're saying that Riot is losing and wants free pixels, so they made up a reason that they believe gives them leverage to demand more free pixels.

If it worked for Ring War, and it worked for lockouts in ToV, why wouldn't it work for Kael races?

In other words, just cry until daddy gives you want you want.

[Ringi]

The GMs even implemented FTE messages that we have been using for 7 years. Don’t see this changing much on this server.


They've changed for sure. Your guild calls accidentals, has multiple FTEs, ignores everything and does whatever you want. You bend a break the rules and wonder why everyone else gets frustrated.

[Nibblewitz]

The server does make changes. When Riot couldn’t engage Takish until Vanquish killed Vulak, they squawked and got FTE lockouts changed.

When Riot abused Vulak blocker concessions, we got a concession timer.

Metas change and their corresponding rules need to be reinterpreted.

[Ringi]

Thank you for agreeing to the intent of this thread.

[Croco]

Could you not test this theory with a /random 901 1000 and see if the roll triggers people into automatically running? Do /shout SCRIPTING TEST - NO SPAWN - DO NOT RUN and then pop the roll and watch the machines leap into action.

This has happened many times and I believe it's even on video somewhere. Racers enter from WL, run up to the line, start practice rolling until a 900+ is rolled then you see them immediately shoot off the line. They run almost to the wall straight in front of the race line then run back and reset.

[Smoofers]

This has happened many times and I believe it's even on video somewhere. Racers enter from WL, run up to the line, start practice rolling until a 900+ is rolled then you see them immediately shoot off the line. They run almost to the wall straight in front of the race line then run back and reset.

So... they're practicing

[Nibblewitz]

Thank you for agreeing to the intent of this thread.

No, OP tried to petition Stunningly for cheating. GMs didn’t find any evidence, but OP has nothing to show for 2 months of work lol so here we are.

[Ringi]

No, OP tried to petition Stunningly for cheating. GMs didn’t find any evidence, but OP has nothing to show for 2 months of work lol so here we are.

there are two parallel issues here, which are being conflated.

1) Did/does Stunningly cheat by using some kind of script to begin the race when his log file registers a /random of 900+? This is, of course, not provable. The evidence for it presented by the OP in the video is, imo, persuasive because of the statistical analysis which calls into question how one person can so consistently perform at basically beyond-human reaction speed. Whether or not this is enough to punish Stunningly is ultimately a GM judgment call - presumably, since this very drama played out several months ago, it is not. This does not exonerate Stunningly - a finding of not guilty is not the same as actually being innocent.

2) Is it possible, generally, to cheat the start of races that have a /random roll off as the condition on which runners can go? This is shown unequivocally to be true. Kickenit demonstrated just how easy someone could cheat these races. All of the hand waiving and deflection doesn't change the fact that we know for certain that someone who wants to set up an automated start to get a good jump off the line can do so with very little difficulty. This is actually the more important of these two issues, as it calls into question the legitimacy not just of a single player, but of the method to competing for FTE itself.

Coth racing was removed because it *could* be cheated. The Badain turn in was changed because it *could* be cheated. Scout is a roll and not a clickfest because it *could* be cheated. Just because no one specific was ever penalized doesn't mean the cheating wasn't happening, and GM's aren't required to have 95%+ confidence variable statistical certainty to change how things operate.

This isn't necessarily justification for punishing Stunningly or Vanquish. It should be justification for getting rid of footraces in favor of almost anything else, though.

[xdrcfrx]

So you're saying that Riot is losing and wants free pixels, so they made up a reason that they believe gives them leverage to demand more free pixels.

If it worked for Ring War, and it worked for lockouts in ToV, why wouldn't it work for Kael races?

In other words, just cry until daddy gives you want you want.

do you even actually read the words you write? your whole persona here is to mimic the worst sort of rhetorical strategies employed by the worst sorts of people. not exaggerating, the level of your discourse is more or less on the same plane as russian troll farms.

1 - that's not what I'm saying at all, and your refusal to actually engage with the critique on a substantive level speaks volumes about the weakness of your position. putting words in someone else's mouth so that you can strawman them is pretty rude, as well.

2 - lockouts in ToV were done away with years before Riot was a guild, what does that have to do with anything?

Kickent and Joria have demonstrated that anyone who wants to can easily cheat FTE footraces, and GM's are apparently unable to detect it enough to prevent it. That means at any given time, one or more racers could be cheating, since the bar to doing so is very low, as well as the risk of being caught. (query: why do you think the majority of racers are using bots these days, rather than personal toons? inb4 BuT StUNniNGLY iSnT a BOt). The fact that any number of people could be cheating the races means this is no longer a valid means of competition - it has no legitimacy if we can't have faith in its underlying fairness. To Nibble's point, this doesn't call into question the concept of FTE as the basis for determining who gets to kill a mob, but it does call into question footraces with a /random start as the means to compete for that FTE.

If you intend to defend this system, you have to come up with a compelling argument explaining why, in light of the fact that the races are so easily cheated, we should still have faith in a footrace as a fair contest to determine who wins FTE. Insulting other people and just saying "nuh uh" isn't going to cut it.

[Nibblewitz]

Need to see someone winning a scripted race before there’s a real concern here.

[Duckwalk]

I dont know why visual reaction time is even being discussed. If you're looking at a text window when a roll is happening you're already going to lose.

Cool, then post a video of 10 consecutive attempts?

https://playback.fm/audio-reaction-time

[xdrcfrx]

Need to see someone winning a scripted race before there’s a real concern here.

this is called moving the goalposts, and is another bad faith rhetorical tactic. all things being equal, the first off the line is going to win the race. the route is easily practiced, and it doesn't take that long to learn how to run it. the advantage gained by scripting the start (which is both undeniably possible, and very easy to do) is the difference. in this line of thinking, to the extent stunningly is doing that then every race he has won could be suspect. more generally, every race is suspect from the outset, because there's not way to verify that the person who won didn't cheat to get the best jump. since we can no longer have any faith in the fairness of the result, the method of the contest should be changed.

bring back coth racing 2022.

[Naethyn]

Disable logging. Remove bindsight from raid zones.

[Ringi]

this is called moving the goalposts, and is another bad faith rhetorical tactic. all things being equal, the first off the line is going to win the race. the route is easily practiced, and it doesn't take that long to learn how to run it. the advantage gained by scripting the start (which is both undeniably possible, and very easy to do) is the difference. in this line of thinking, to the extent stunningly is doing that then every race he has won could be suspect. more generally, every race is suspect from the outset, because there's not way to verify that the person who won didn't cheat to get the best jump. since we can no longer have any faith in the fairness of the result, the method of the contest should be changed.

bring back coth racing 2022.

He's trying to be a wordsmith and say that Stunningly isnt scripting, or at least thats what I'm taking away from it.

[Nibblewitz]

Jumps are meaningless in minute(s)-long races. Stunningly could give me 5 second head start, but if I don’t know the lines, I’m done.

[Nibblewitz]

Croco realized that racers practice their jumps and are not scripting. All we are talking about is scripting the initial step. Show me a script of the essential part of the race, or scripting races isn’t a legitimate concern.

[Ringi]

Jumps are meaningless in minute(s)-long races. Stunningly could give me 5 second head start, but if I don’t know the lines, I’m done.

So, what you're saying is that all of us are incapable of learning the race path (hence Stunninglys impressive win rate)?

If he knows the race path and always gets a significant jump, he's always going to win against someone who just knows the race path.

[Nibblewitz]

So, what you're saying is that all of us are incapable of learning the race path (hence Stunninglys impressive win rate)?

If he knows the race path and always gets a significant jump, he's always going to win against someone who just knows the race path.

Not at all. Everyone can learn the paths with practice, but the top racers are doing this dozens of not hundreds of times a week. For each foot race.

Step your game up!

[xdrcfrx]

Jumps are meaningless in minute(s)-long races. Stunningly could give me 5 second head start, but if I don’t know the lines, I’m done.

this is undeniably false. the jump is the race. KT race is well under 60 seconds, it's a sprint. Anyone who's practiced even a little bit can run from the race line to the throne room in under 55 seconds, and it's factioned the whole way so there's no variables to worry about. the idea that you could make up a 5 second deficit in such a short race is absurd, and anyone who has practiced or actually raced knows it. you're embarrassing yourself.

[Ringi]

Not at all. Everyone can learn the paths with practice, but the top racers are doing this dozens of not hundreds of times a week. For each foot race.

Step your game up!

Oh wow, duh! Never thought of that :D

[Nibblewitz]

That’s why we are looking at 2 months of someone’s work after GMs dismissed it 3 months ago.

[Samoht]

your refusal to actually engage with the critique on a substantive level speaks volumes about the weakness of your position. putting words in someone else's mouth so that you can strawman them is pretty rude, as well.

I haven't refused anything. My stance is clear and transparent. You keep ignoring it because you have no counter argument. Instead you're insulting me and pretending like I have nothing of value to add, which is actually quite hypocritical of you.

ockouts in ToV were done away with years before Riot was a guild, what does that have to do with anything?

I don't know, who brought up lockouts?

Kickent and Joria have demonstrated that anyone who wants to can easily cheat FTE footraces, and GM's are apparently unable to detect it enough to prevent it. That means at any given time, one or more racers could be cheating

So Riot cheats, admits to it, provides evidence of it, shares directions with the whole server on how to cheat, and what? No penalty? Man, yall are lucky I'm not a GM here or Riot would have a raid ban by now. I'd stop nothing short of a death sentence.

If you intend to defend this system, you have to come up with a compelling argument explaining why, in light of the fact that the races are so easily cheated, we should still have faith in a footrace as a fair contest to determine who wins FTE. Insulting other people and just saying "nuh uh" isn't going to cut it.

I'm not defending the system. Who is making up strawmen now? This post was libel against Vanquish racers. The accusations are baseless and proven so because not a single one of you has any answer for the holes that are poked in the theories present in the video. Yet you keep posting and moving goal posts.

There are better ways to get rules changed. But you've never had to deal with this:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16885&stc=1&d=1644341706

Riot is once again showing their true colors in this thread with their "rules for thee not for me" gotchas.

And just like the Tunare restrictions, Vanquish continues to persevere. Instead of crying about the Tunare rules change, they hunkered down and now do a full PoG clear in about 2 hours under optimal circumstances.

Quit playing the victim and start playing the game.

[Ringi]

... I have nothing of value to add ...

Correct

[-TK-]

Man, yall are lucky I'm not a GM here

From reading your posts this is probably the truest statement in the entire thread.

[Twochain]

this is called moving the goalposts, and is another bad faith rhetorical tactic. all things being equal, the first off the line is going to win the race. the route is easily practiced, and it doesn't take that long to learn how to run it. the advantage gained by scripting the start (which is both undeniably possible, and very easy to do) is the difference. in this line of thinking, to the extent stunningly is doing that then every race he has won could be suspect. more generally, every race is suspect from the outset, because there's not way to verify that the person who won didn't cheat to get the best jump. since we can no longer have any faith in the fairness of the result, the method of the contest should be changed.

bring back coth racing 2022.

Coth racing is removed, because it is WAY more gameable than foot racing.

Foot racing is not perfect, but it's better than NO CSR, (Although that would be fun for a bit). It's vastly better than rotations, and it's the most inclusive option available. And obviously it's possible to set up a script to run forward when a 900+ rolls. What the argument here is, the possibility of running forward via script isn't why your losing the races. I don't believe stunningly is scripting, however I concede to the point about how easy it is to do so.

HOWEVER, THE POINT IVE MADE A THOUSAND TIMES is that the REAL advantage a script has, is if it's a race on spawn. The programs ability to never be distracted is the real advantage.

SO:

ALL RACES NEED TO BE A ROLL OFF

EACH ROLL OFF IS DONE BY A TRUSTED MEMBER/GM. THIS PERSON SHOWS UP. DECIDES WHICH NUMBER SET WILL BE THE WINNER TONIGHT, TYPES IT IN /SAY, AND IMMEDIATELY STARTS TO ROLL.

For instance, person asks if all racers are ready. They say yes. He says "Okay, 5xx Starting rolls"

/random 1000

/random 1000

If the person immediately starts rolling, you are risking losing the race trying to modify your script to roll on X. I.E You skip it completely.

There, there's the solution. Please, implement this and go practice.

[Samoht]

Coth racing is removed, because it is WAY more gameable than foot racing.

Foot racing is not perfect, but it's better than NO CSR, (Although that would be fun for a bit). It's vastly better than rotations, and it's the most inclusive option available. And obviously it's possible to set up a script to run forward when a 900+ rolls. What the argument here is, the possibility of running forward via script isn't why your losing the races. I don't believe stunningly is scripting, however I concede to the point about how easy it is to do so.

HOWEVER, THE POINT IVE MADE A THOUSAND TIMES is that the REAL advantage a script has, is if it's a race on spawn. The programs ability to never be distracted is the real advantage.

SO:

ALL RACES NEED TO BE A ROLL OFF

EACH ROLL OFF IS DONE BY A TRUSTED MEMBER/GM. THIS PERSON SHOWS UP. DECIDES WHICH NUMBER SET WILL BE THE WINNER TONIGHT, TYPES IT IN /SAY, AND IMMEDIATELY STARTS TO ROLL.

For instance, person asks if all racers are ready. They say yes. He says "Okay, 5xx Starting rolls"

/random 1000

/random 1000

If the person immediately starts rolling, you are risking losing the race trying to modify your script to roll on X. I.E You skip it completely.

There, there's the solution. Please, implement this and go practice.

Nah, you have equitable solutions instead of free pixels. That's all they really want.

[xdrcfrx]

I haven't refused anything. My stance is clear and transparent. You keep ignoring it because you have no counter argument. Instead you're insulting me and pretending like I have nothing of value to add, which is actually quite hypocritical of you.

Yes, you have refused to engage with this critique on a substantive level, preferring rather to offer nothing but denial, and personal attack. It's not my fault you argue the way you do.

I don't know, who brought up lockouts?

Uh, you did?


So Riot cheats, admits to it, provides evidence of it, shares directions with the whole server on how to cheat, and what? No penalty? Man, yall are lucky I'm not a GM here or Riot would have a raid ban by now. I'd stop nothing short of a death sentence.

This is the sort of thing I've reference above - in any event, I think I speak for most people when I thank whatever powers that be that Samhot isn't a GM.


I'm not defending the system. Who is making up strawmen now? This post was libel against Vanquish racers. The accusations are baseless and proven so because not a single one of you has any answer for the holes that are poked in the theories present in the video. Yet you keep posting and moving goal posts.

You are very much defending the status quo, else why go to so much trouble to (try, fruitlessly) rebut the OP? Forget Vanquish, forget Stunningly, forget Riot. This isn't about an

There are better ways to get rules changed. But you've never had to deal with this:

Riot is once again showing their true colors in this thread with their "rules for thee not for me" gotchas.

And just like the Tunare restrictions, Vanquish continues to persevere. Instead of crying about the Tunare rules change, they hunkered down and now do a full PoG clear in about 2 hours under optimal circumstances.

Quit playing the victim and start playing the game.

Forget Vanquish, forget Stunningly, forget Riot and everyone else. You're still doing the thing I pointed out initially - conflating the question of "does Stunningly cheat?" with the other, more important question "is it possible to cheat?" Yes, it is possible and apparently very easy to do. That by itself is enough to call into question the legitimacy of footraces with a /random as the start condition.

If you want to have this conversation, you must be able to answer the following question: why should anyone have any faith in a system of competition which is, demonstrably, so easy to cheat? If all you're going to do is say "nuh uh" then we might as well call it a thread.

[xdrcfrx]

Coth racing is removed, because it is WAY more gameable than foot racing.

Foot racing is not perfect, but it's better than NO CSR, (Although that would be fun for a bit). It's vastly better than rotations, and it's the most inclusive option available. And obviously it's possible to set up a script to run forward when a 900+ rolls. What the argument here is, the possibility of running forward via script isn't why your losing the races. I don't believe stunningly is scripting, however I concede to the point about how easy it is to do so.

HOWEVER, THE POINT IVE MADE A THOUSAND TIMES is that the REAL advantage a script has, is if it's a race on spawn. The programs ability to never be distracted is the real advantage.

SO:

ALL RACES NEED TO BE A ROLL OFF

EACH ROLL OFF IS DONE BY A TRUSTED MEMBER/GM. THIS PERSON SHOWS UP. DECIDES WHICH NUMBER SET WILL BE THE WINNER TONIGHT, TYPES IT IN /SAY, AND IMMEDIATELY STARTS TO ROLL.

For instance, person asks if all racers are ready. They say yes. He says "Okay, 5xx Starting rolls"

/random 1000

/random 1000

If the person immediately starts rolling, you are risking losing the race trying to modify your script to roll on X. I.E You skip it completely.

There, there's the solution. Please, implement this and go practice.

coth racing has a few things in it's favor, imo:

1) to the extent that the coth can also be scripted, the cothee still has to not fumble it once they land and get FTE (granted, this is less relevant now that kael FTE's come with a 5 minute lockout).

2) to the extent coth racing is also suspect, the distribution of winners was spread out more evenly, which suggests a more fair system. If we can't have faith in either coth races or footraces, we might as well choose the one that had the largest variety in individuals who could win it.

3) the barrier to coth racing is much much lower than footracing (which probably goes a long way towards explaining why the distribution of winners is more spread out). to the extent what the devs (and Vanq., at least so they claim) want is a competitive environment, lower barriers of entry to the competition themselves will promote rather than hinder that goal.

[Viscere]

"It's only one warrior"

Man, what an ending

[Naethyn]

Saying a number before the roll doesn’t fix it. Variables exist in software programming for a reason.

[Nibblewitz]

coth races are harder to cheat on than races

heard it here first, from a dying guild

[Ringi]

Nah, you have equitable solutions instead of free pixels. That's all they really want.

So are you saying that if we were to remove the ability to cheat, everyone else would get all the pixels?

[Twochain]

coth racing has a few things in it's favor, imo:

1) to the extent that the coth can also be scripted, the cothee still has to not fumble it once they land and get FTE (granted, this is less relevant now that kael FTE's come with a 5 minute lockout).

2) to the extent coth racing is also suspect, the distribution of winners was spread out more evenly, which suggests a more fair system. If we can't have faith in either coth races or footraces, we might as well choose the one that had the largest variety in individuals who could win it.

3) the barrier to coth racing is much much lower than footracing (which probably goes a long way towards explaining why the distribution of winners is more spread out). to the extent what the devs (and Vanq., at least so they claim) want is a competitive environment, lower barriers of entry to the competition themselves will promote rather than hinder that goal.

Coth Racing would only be more inclusive if there were 24 hour lockouts or something.

But, if you think a .15ms advantage of pressing W before others is game breaking, think about the advantage of 24/7 ability to coth. Never has to pee, doesn't watch netflix, doesn't get bored, doesn't get tired. There is a reason they swiftly and abruptly removed it.

Trust me cothing isn't the way.

However, I think my solution really would cut out a lot of questions. If you do a roll off in an enviroment such as this, the possibility of cheating becomes very very low.

[Bardp1999]

Can't believe why no one wants to raid here and why the staff has given up answering petitions - its all quite perplexing

[Samoht]

Forget Vanquish, forget Stunningly, forget Riot and everyone else. You're still doing the thing I pointed out initially - conflating the question of "does Stunningly cheat?" with the other, more important question "is it possible to cheat?" Yes, it is possible and apparently very easy to do. That by itself is enough to call into question the legitimacy of footraces with a /random as the start condition.

This is the root of your whole problem. You're pretending like these are the same question and that the answer to one positively answers the other. Nobody is questioning whether or not it is possible to cheat, but that's not the question asked in the video, is it?

I have yet to see anybody from Riot proposing changes to foot races in the proper channels, and if they did so, they would promptly be shot down (and rightfully so) based on Riot's own former precedent.

My guess is that you see the cheating angle as a way to automatically get the changes you want. It's too bad the GMs saw right through your scam.

Btw, Nibblewitz brought up lockouts. Not me.

[Nibblewitz]

It’s a feature, not a bug.

[Twochain]

Saying a number before the roll doesn’t fix it. Variables exist in software programming for a reason.

it could, you can switch up the way you tell relay what winning number it will be this week, so that you couldn't program a if 5xx then etc etc.


"The number is 6 - 2zz"

The program would need to know what the winning number is.

[xdrcfrx]

This is the root of your whole problem. You're pretending like these are the same question and that the answer to one positively answers the other. Nobody is questioning whether or not it is possible to cheat, but that's not the question asked in the video, is it?

I'm explicitly stating that these are two different questions raised by the OP's video, and have repeatedly said that the questions about Stunningly the individual are not especially meaningful as compared to the questions about cheating in races, generally. I don't really care, ultimately, if Stunningly is scripting his race starts or not (although, as stated, i find the evidence in favor of him doing that to be persuasive). I'm more concerned about how we can have any faith in footraces as a fair metric for competing for FTE now. We can't, because as Kickenit and Joria have shown, it is very easy to cheat. Nobody is questioning that it's possible to cheat - in other words, you agree that cheating at footraces is both possible and very easy to do?

I have yet to see anybody from Riot proposing changes to foot races in the proper channels, and if they did so, they would promptly be shot down (and rightfully so) based on Riot's own former precedent.[/QUOTE=Samoht]

OP stated he sent this all to the GM's months ago. What other channels would be "proper" in your view, and had this been raised in those channels would your opinion change? This feels like a meaningless deflection. Why should "Riot's own former precedent" determine whether or not the GM's change the ruleset?

[QUOTE=Samoht;3421020]My guess is that you see the cheating angle as a way to automatically get the changes you want. It's too bad the GMs saw right through your scam.[QUOTE=Samoht]

More strawmanning and and personal attacks. You acknowledge above that cheating is possible, so what is the scam exactly? Why can't you just engage with this subject honestly? (that's a rhetorical question, I understand why you won't).

[QUOTE=Samoht;3421020] Btw, Nibblewitz brought up lockouts. Not me.

ok?

[Naethyn]

KT should reset if pulled past archway.
AoW should reset if pulled past see invis.

When people were using pixel detection software for coths we got races. Now that people are scripting races, it's time to start fighting the mobs upstairs first in force like we used to do at the start of velious.

[titanshub]

I'm explicitly stating that these are two different questions raised by the OP's video, and have repeatedly said that the questions about Stunningly the individual are not especially meaningful as compared to the questions about cheating in races, generally. I don't really care, ultimately, if Stunningly is scripting his race starts or not (although, as stated, i find the evidence in favor of him doing that to be persuasive). I'm more concerned about how we can have any faith in footraces as a fair metric for competing for FTE now. We can't, because as Kickenit and Joria have shown, it is very easy to cheat. Nobody is questioning that it's possible to cheat - in other words, you agree that cheating at footraces is both possible and very easy to do?

[QUOTE=Samoht;3421020]I have yet to see anybody from Riot proposing changes to foot races in the proper channels, and if they did so, they would promptly be shot down (and rightfully so) based on Riot's own former precedent.[/QUOTE=Samoht]

OP stated he sent this all to the GM's months ago. What other channels would be "proper" in your view, and had this been raised in those channels would your opinion change? This feels like a meaningless deflection. Why should "Riot's own former precedent" determine whether or not the GM's change the ruleset?

[QUOTE=Samoht;3421020]My guess is that you see the cheating angle as a way to automatically get the changes you want. It's too bad the GMs saw right through your scam.[QUOTE=Samoht]

More strawmanning and and personal attacks. You acknowledge above that cheating is possible, so what is the scam exactly? Why can't you just engage with this subject honestly? (that's a rhetorical question, I understand why you won't).



ok?

Lockouts and foot races make the cheating even more problematic. It would then effect every raid encounter instead of a few.

[Darmai]

Maybe you should research Audio Reaction time vs Visual reaction time. You realize your sense take different pathways to the brain?

https://new.cognitivefun.net/task/cogfun-16-auditory-reaction-time

Give this test a shot please =)

[Samoht]

OP stated he sent this all to the GM's months ago. What other channels would be "proper" in your view, and had this been raised in those channels would your opinion change? This feels like a meaningless deflection. Why should "Riot's own former precedent" determine whether or not the GM's change the ruleset?

You propose changes in the UN, not by begging GMs to validate your baseless claims that Stunningly is cheating. Arcler's former behavior will mean any changes proposed will be turned down. You reap what you sow, oh well.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16885&stc=1&d=1644341706

Precedent here.

More strawmanning and and personal attacks. You acknowledge above that cheating is possible, so what is the scam exactly? Why can't you just engage with this subject honestly? (that's a rhetorical question, I understand why you won't).

I have engaged in this honestly. You're lying yourself if you pretend that you haven't crossed any of the lines that you accuse me of crossing. The only difference is you don't see me crying about it. If it hurts your feelings to hear that somebody thinks you're crying, maybe you should consider not crying?

[xdrcfrx]

ugh, i'm not sure where I derped the formatting, but that last post is all over the place. /shrug lol.

[Ringi]

You propose changes in the UN, not by begging GMs to validate your baseless claims that Stunningly is cheating. Arcler's former behavior will mean any changes proposed will be turned down. You reap what you sow, oh well.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16885&stc=1&d=1644341706

Precedent here.



I have engaged in this honestly. You're lying yourself if you pretend that you haven't crossed any of the lines that you accuse me of crossing. The only difference is you don't see me crying about it. If it hurts your feelings to hear that somebody thinks you're crying, maybe you should consider not crying?

You must be insufferable to be around in real life.

[xdrcfrx]

You propose changes in the UN, not by begging GMs to validate your baseless claims that Stunningly is cheating. Arcler's former behavior will mean any changes proposed will be turned down. You reap what you sow, oh well.


Interesting to hear you tout the UN - i suppose if 6 out of 7 guilds in the UN were in favor of doing away with foot races, you'd find that proper and go right along with it? This is just more goalpost moving in any event, because you're trying to change the subject of the conversation from the substance of the critique (that cheating is possible, and very easy to do), to the place where the critique was raised.


I have engaged in this honestly. You're lying yourself if you pretend that you haven't crossed any of the lines that you accuse me of crossing. The only difference is you don't see me crying about it. If it hurts your feelings to hear that somebody thinks you're crying, maybe you should consider not crying?

You haven't, because you're still lobbing personal attacks ("you're crying! wahhhhh") instead of addressing the actual merits of the discussion. You haven't actually even bothered to try answering the question - why should we have any faith in footraces as a fair means of competition, in light of how easily they are cheated?

[Bardp1999]

All Raiders must have electrodes hooked up to their genitals and nipples while in a P99 raid zone - any losing raid force will be shocked as punishment for losing, any winning raid force will be shocked for being no life losers. All pixels will be classified as "NO LOOT" and will decay with the corpse they drop from.

[Samoht]

Interesting to hear you tout the UN - i suppose if 6 out of 7 guilds in the UN were in favor of doing away with foot races, you'd find that proper and go right along with it? This is just more goalpost moving in any event, because you're trying to change the subject of the conversation from the substance of the critique (that cheating is possible, and very easy to do), to the place where the critique was raised.

Yes, please post in UN admitting that Riot proved it was possible to cheat by cheating themselves and ask for suggestions on how to handle Riot's cheating.

You haven't, because you're still lobbing personal attacks ("you're crying! wahhhhh") instead of addressing the actual merits of the discussion. You haven't actually even bothered to try answering the question - why should we have any faith in footraces as a fair means of competition, in light of how easily they are cheated?

That's not what this thread is about. You're moving the goalposts, and I don't really care about your new topic.

[Samoht]

Yes, please post in UN admitting that Riot proved it was possible to cheat by cheating themselves and ask for suggestions on how to handle Riot's cheating.

To continue with this, I would recommend leaving OPs video where they try to defame Stunningly out of it as it adds nothing to THAT conversation specifically.

[Ringi]

Yes, please post in UN admitting that Riot proved it was possible to cheat by cheating themselves and ask for suggestions on how to handle Riot's cheating.



That's not what this thread is about. You're moving the goalposts, and I don't really care about your new topic.

Oh well then everyone, Samoht doesn't care, so we're all done here. Let's move on.

[xdrcfrx]

To continue with this, I would recommend leaving OPs video where they try to defame Stunningly out of it as it adds nothing to THAT conversation specifically.

double post because super mad and grasping at straws.

[Samoht]

double post because super mad and grasping at straws.

No response, resorts to ad hominem attacks because giant hypocrite and losing the argument.

[titanshub]

I have a theory that Samholt is just an AI made by Vanquishes bot developer to defend the people using hos 3rd party software.

It would explain why the things he says have no internal logic or consistency. If we keep interacting with it, maybe we can train it to do something useful.

[xdrcfrx]

No response, resorts to ad hominem attacks because giant hypocrite and losing the argument.

nah, the argument is that cheating is possible and very easy to do, as demonstrated by OP. Keep trying though.

[Ringi]

I have a theory that Samholt is just an AI made by Vanquishes bot developer to defend the people using hos 3rd party software.

It would explain why the things he says have no internal logic or consistency. If we keep interacting with it, maybe we can train it to do something useful.

But Space, he said he was smarter than me!!

[tacomagradd]

I have a theory that Samholt is just an AI made by Vanquishes bot developer to defend the people using hos 3rd party software.

It would explain why the things he says have no internal logic or consistency. If we keep interacting with it, maybe we can train it to do something useful.

LOL, omg, I'm dying here.

In all seriousness, though, I'd love to post this in the UN. I'd be happy to let all the member guilds know that Samoht <Vanquish>, a quite verbose RNF poster who clearly represents Vanquish and has over 2,000 forum posts(!) has encouraged us to change this rule through formal channels, collaboration, etc.

We can get to work on this immediately, and look forward to Vanquish's collaboration and support to promote truly fair competition and remove any question of the possibility for cheating or unfairness. Thanks Vanquish, I knew you guys would come around to the cause of justice.

Your friend,

Jute

[Samoht]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16885&stc=1&d=1644341706

[k9quaint]

I dunno why Vanquish is so desperate. It took P99 5 years to address the automated turn in scripts. Time is on their side.

[Aadill]

All Raiders must have electrodes hooked up to their genitals and nipples while in a P99 raid zone - any losing raid force will be shocked as punishment for losing, any winning raid force will be shocked for being no life losers. All pixels will be classified as "NO LOOT" and will decay with the corpse they drop from.

Stop threatening me with a good time.

[Hideousclaw]

Well this was a fun sample. My first audio reaction was 130ms but then i fumbled a bunch deciding to use space bar or mouse. Ended up sticking with mouse as thats more likely to apply to the racing meta, though neither really used for going forward (I guess space bar w/ Left hand would be better test?) So this is results of 2nd test set which all sat in like 150-170ms area. Visual one was far worse, which isn't a surprise. First set of first test. Still fun to see, never thought to google a sound reaction test, glad i read thru and tried it. Encouraging results.

16889

16888

[Twochain]

KT should reset if pulled past archway.
AoW should reset if pulled past see invis.

When people were using pixel detection software for coths we got races. Now that people are scripting races, it's time to start fighting the mobs upstairs first in force like we used to do at the start of velious.

That is automatically giving the mob to the guild with more players, which is what happened in ToV, which i'd like to see us move away from.

[Darmai]

Well this was a fun sample. My first audio reaction was 130ms but then i fumbled a bunch deciding to use space bar or mouse. Ended up sticking with mouse as thats more likely to apply to the racing meta, though neither really used for going forward (I guess space bar w/ Left hand would be better test?) So this is results of 2nd test set which all sat in like 150-170ms area. Visual one was far worse, which isn't a surprise. First set of first test. Still fun to see, never thought to google a sound reaction test, glad i read thru and tried it. Encouraging results.

16889

16888

I did better with visual than audio

[Duckwalk]

After all that posturing, "audio is faster than visual anyways", "only nubs use visual clues" we can't even get a little video proving their world class reaction time.

inB4 excuse about something affecting reaction time but taking bets on what it will be.

1. new hardware
2. medication
3. real life distractions

At least we can be reassured such an affliction wont stop Stunningly from autofiring mobs like he did Vindi the other night.

If you aint cheatin you aint trying right?

[Caball]

Fuck, this threat is great! Full of so many warmbody losers crying about someone better than them wrecking them on so many races that he MUST be cheating, their minds will accept no other explanation. Face it, no matter what Stunningly says, does, tries to explain to you all how he wins, the only thing Riot will think is he’s cheating because they can’t get over the fact that they fucking aren’t as good as him at racing. And nothing will ever change that. So keep bitching and wasting your time accusing a great racer of cheating while you have zero proof and GM’s laugh at how fucking caught up in this delusion you all truly are. LOLOLOLOLOL giT fUcKeD we Da BeSt!!!!!

[Ringi]

Fuck, this threat is great! Full of so many warmbody losers crying about someone better than them wrecking them on so many races that he MUST be cheating, their minds will accept no other explanation. Face it, no matter what Stunningly says, does, tries to explain to you all how he wins, the only thing Riot will think is he’s cheating because they can’t get over the fact that they fucking aren’t as good as him at racing. And nothing will ever change that. So keep bitching and wasting your time accusing a great racer of cheating while you have zero proof and GM’s laugh at how fucking caught up in this delusion you all truly are. LOLOLOLOLOL giT fUcKeD we Da BeSt!!!!!

Holy shit, all of you are the same. You're one giant facebook meme.

[Caball]

Just imagine, for half a second, that Stunningly actually doesn’t cheat and practiced for hundreds of hours to win these races. How do you think this looks when a bunch of sore losers are crying all over the forums/discord about how he’s a cheater, he couldn’t possibly win fairly, blah blah blah. How sad is it that a guy who put in the time and effort to get good gets shit on by an entire group of people all because they are too dumb to realize how he beats them fairly? Take a look in the mirror and realize what a piece of shit you are to accuse this honest player of cheating when the only thing he is guilty of is practicing and spending a ton of effort to cut a few frames off at different points in the race to come out on top the majority of the time

[adruidarkly]

EQ is a racing game = mario 64 is a skate game

[Ripqozko]

Not much warder loot in this thread, hope that helps.

[TheConsortium]

i thought the love of the race was involved.. sounds like the prize is driving someone insane, as usual with humans

[PlsNoBan]

FTE is not classic
Racing is not classic
Variance is not classic
Multiple years of Velious is not classic
Everquest as an e-sport is not classic
Practicing "race lines" is not classic

Has anyone here touched grass in the past year?

[starkind]

No.

I touched a cat tho.

[PlsNoBan]

For instance, person asks if all racers are ready. They say yes. He says "Okay, 5xx Starting rolls"

/random 1000

/random 1000

If the person immediately starts rolling, you are risking losing the race trying to modify your script to roll on X. I.E You skip it completely.

There, there's the solution. Please, implement this and go practice.

Extremely easy to get around this. Have script wait for input to tell it which starting number to look for. Wait for announcer to say 5xx or 5__ or whatever it is they say. Literally takes like 1/2 a second to type the number in a CLI and set a variable for the script to watch for. If announcer says the number and rolls in under .5 seconds it's going to screw with people playing manual and legit.

Bravo for the attempt at coming up with a solution but I promise you this won't work. There are people MUCH more skilled than me at programming playing this game and I came up with a workaround in like 5 seconds.

[Chortles Snortles]

this blubie racer guy is my new hero for causing so many pages of buttblast

[doormat00]

You guys are gonna make the GMs root the giants next.

[azxten]

this blubie racer guy is my new hero for causing so many pages of buttblast

Easily the most entertaining RnF thread in the last 5 years. Four out of five young doctors agree.

[Powahfull]

GMs here are scammers I just tried to come back after many years off this is what I saw when I tried to log in.

You have been banned for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

Date the ban will be lifted: Never

They stole my character and won't even let me make a post about it no wonder why I went to live TLP and left Scam99

[azxten]

GMs here are scammers I just tried to come back after many years off this is what I saw when I tried to log in.

You have been banned for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

Date the ban will be lifted: Never

They stole my character and won't even let me make a post about it no wonder why I went to live TLP and left Scam99

This guy used MQ2 without proper memory protection.

[Twochain]

Extremely easy to get around this. Have script wait for input to tell it which starting number to look for. Wait for announcer to say 5xx or 5__ or whatever it is they say. Literally takes like 1/2 a second to type the number in a CLI and set a variable for the script to watch for. If announcer says the number and rolls in under .5 seconds it's going to screw with people playing manual and legit.

Bravo for the attempt at coming up with a solution but I promise you this won't work. There are people MUCH more skilled than me at programming playing this game and I came up with a workaround in like 5 seconds.

Then just do a countdown. 5 4 3 2 1 GOGOGO

I think that makes it as fair as possible. If you aren't ready to fucking press W in .3 after you know it's coming, then don't line up.

perhaps we can think of ways to prove legit pressing W vs script, however my biggest point here is that autofiring the GOGO isn't going to win you a race.

Laughingor has won a lot of races, and his ping is probably 200 minimum. Aikons, fastest man alive, played primarily with 140 ping, won a shit load of FTE. Kelz same shit..

Detoxx has won so many fucking statue and aow and i swear to god he is grampa off the line. The guy has won double digit amount of slow and steady wins the race mobs in kael. Swear to god.

Just do a fast start no rolling. For the whole window.I think ping is a bigger difference then script at that point. And being first off the line probably increases your chance to win the race by like 5%.

[Praxcthius]

I think this is a case of steroids and Tour de France. Obviously stunningly is Lance Armstrong

[Toxigen]

https://i.imgur.com/x0vEOCq.png

https://i.imgur.com/PELR4LP.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mFXRAoQ.jpg

[Lewkeng]

You guys are gonna make the GMs root the giants next.

I would love to see this happen, killing aow in the arena would be insane

[OuterChimp]

Some of you guys should stop playing p99 and go work at some computer coding company.

[unsunghero]

Some of you guys should stop playing p99 and go work at some computer coding company.

Or code an anti-cheat 3rd party application and require all racers have it

[dk0]

Races should be comprised of 10 level 5 characters for each team, all who are bound at the starting line, no sow at all.

Racers can use anything available to them at level 5, and basically just yolo towards statue/kt/whatever over and over until the target slowly gets pulled to zl. Still must have FTE and clean pull to win. Register all racers ahead of time for easy log review (Vanqone, Vanqtwo, Riotone, Riottwo, etc.). Nobody else on engage logs during pull.

Hard to really cheat that, and getting off the line early does nothing. Plus it would be wildly entertaining to watch.

[Twochain]

Races should be comprised of 10 level 5 characters for each team, all who are bound at the starting line, no sow at all.

Racers can use anything available to them at level 5, and basically just yolo towards statue/kt/whatever over and over until the target slowly gets pulled to zl. Still must have FTE and clean pull to win. Register all racers ahead of time for easy log review (Vanqone, Vanqtwo, Riotone, Riottwo, etc.). Nobody else on engage logs during pull.

Hard to really cheat that, and getting off the line early does nothing. Plus it would be wildly entertaining to watch.

lmao at that point just require all racers to be KoS

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Again, the problem is most people who are agreeing with OP's evidence do not have a firm grasp of how data transfer over the internet works. Not trying to insult anybody here, but it is evident from previous posts.

Lets say the Rolling Player has a 20ms ping, Racer A has a 30ms ping, and Racer B has a 100ms ping.

Racer A is going to receive the Rolling Player's message 25ms after the Rolling Player typed /random (10ms for it to get to the server, and 15ms for it to get to Racer A).

Racer B is going to receive the Rolling Player's message 60ms after the Rolling Player typed /random (10ms for it to get to the server, and 50ms for it to get to Racer B).

This means Racer A will always have at least a 35ms advantage over Racer B, as long as their internet situations do not change. There is NO WAY around the data transfer problem, until there is a leap in technology.

And this isn't even taking into account the other factors, such as screen refresh rate, the player's actual reaction time, etc.

If we DID have all of that data, we could figure out if a racer had faster than average reaction time, because we would know exactly when each player saw the message, and account for that.

This isn't to say I am for cheating. I simply understand that there is no reasonable way in which a GM can make a decision, which is probably why they haven't acted. I feel sorry for OP, because he would have saved a lot of time in his research if he had understood this first.

[Bardp1999]

I simply understand that there is no reasonable way in which a GM can make a decision, which is probably why they haven't acted. I feel sorry for OP, because he would have saved a lot of time in his research if he had understood this first.

This isn't a court of law, Stunningly is obviously cheating, ban him

[DeathsSilkyMist]

This isn't a court of law, Stunningly is obviously cheating, ban him

Except it isn't obvious, due to the obvious holes in OP's technical knowledge. How isn't it obvious? Read my previous post.

Again, the problem is most people who are agreeing with OP's evidence do not have a firm grasp of how data transfer over the internet works. Not trying to insult anybody here, but it is evident from previous posts.

Lets say the Rolling Player has a 20ms ping, Racer A has a 30ms ping, and Racer B has a 100ms ping.

Racer A is going to receive the Rolling Player's message 25ms after the Rolling Player typed /random (10ms for it to get to the server, and 15ms for it to get to Racer A).

Racer B is going to receive the Rolling Player's message 60ms after the Rolling Player typed /random (10ms for it to get to the server, and 50ms for it to get to Racer B).

This means Racer A will always have at least a 35ms advantage over Racer B, as long as their internet situations do not change. There is NO WAY around the data transfer problem, until there is a leap in technology.

And this isn't even taking into account the other factors, such as screen refresh rate, the player's actual reaction time, etc.

If we DID have all of that data, we could figure out if a racer had faster than average reaction time, because we would know exactly when each player saw the message, and account for that.

This isn't to say I am for cheating. I simply understand that there is no reasonable way in which a GM can make a decision, which is probably why they haven't acted. I feel sorry for OP, because he would have saved a lot of time in his research if he had understood this first.

[Ennewi]

Jesus this is already falling apart.

I've wrote in length how the only way two ways you can game a roll on spawn via scripts is 1. To start running on pop (Aka, ALL races need to be roll offs) and my second point, in which I stressed in great length, that on a race on spawn via roll off, the difference between a script and say ME running off the line is going to be almost no advantage. And that a low ping+High reaction time would matter more than a script + high ping. It already looks like you are proving my point.

You have the scripter in the front. RIGHT behind him is stunningly, but with an obvious gap. Yup, Stunningly almost had the same reaction time as a script. I would too. Stunningly uses a Gina trigger to play a loud ass sound when there's a roll over 900. Meaning as soon as that loud ass beep goes out your running. WE actually did a human benchmark test 2 weeks ago, stunningly was in the same realm as I was, consistently able to get into the 150 ms range.

And then, to further prove my point, the THIRD person to move off the line? Laughingor, a player with high reaction time, but plays from china. So huge ping. And then the rest. How could you all be so slow?

I'm 5 minutes into the video, and it seems you are proving my previous hypothesis more so than showing me obvious cheating.... but i'll keep watching i'm interested.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342413&page=4

Old 11-26-2019, 02:33 PM
Llandris Llandris is offline
Server GM

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Join Date: Oct 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazek View Post
And since there's only 6 action slots (cancer) you're forced to either use that for stopsong macros or double tap and use those slots for instruments (you'll need all 6). I understand and agree with keeping things classic but having only 6 slots (especially since action binds don't work) and having to double tap is beyond stupid so I made a script that allows you to single tap so you can use those slots for instruments. You can get it here with a readme on how to use: Its not technically "allowed" but its not a hack either. And all it does is make a bards life viable.

This is 100% against the rules and you will be banned for it if we catch you. Thanks for admitting it though, makes my job easier.

Old 11-26-2019, 03:49 PM
Haynar Haynar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazek [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
They won't know you're using it. Even though you could get banned. And that's only one part of what I said. The rest is good advice. And everything you said is stupid and wrong as already proven.

You are giving bad advice. Please stop.
__________________
Haynar <Millennial Snowflake Utopia>

11-26-2019, 04:34 PM
Haynar Haynar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazek [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
And the fact is that there is nothing wrong with using a script to single tap songs, besides according to the irrational iron fist. Because its not the same as using AHK to afk farm for example. So good luck with your servers but I hope you'll reflect and be more reasonable in the future for your own sake.

Peace

It does not matter how much you think it impacts or compares to running macros. You don’t get to decide which macro use is acceptable or not. Using macro type scripts to automate functions, gives an unfair advantage. It is also against the rules.
__________________
Haynar <Millennial Snowflake Utopia>

[Twochain]

Except it isn't obvious, due to the obvious holes in OP's technical knowledge. How isn't it obvious? Read my previous post.

Rooting the Giants will very much guarantee that any guild outside of Vanquish/Seal Team will never have a shot. The more people you can afk at zoneline = your guild winning the mob. Same thing with Vulak/Vyemm/Eashen etc etc.

Doze is a different story of course... you probably need only a minimum of 40 to kill doze, but at least 15 people of those 40 need to know EXACTLY what they are doing in terms of training out the trash and keeping it trained.

And Shamwowi is explaining a point i've been trying to make for years here, and it's that PING is more of an advantage as most people would guess. If Kickenit (The only person who seems to ME to be scripting in these videos) had 100 ping, he'd roughly get off the line at the same time if not slower than somebody with 20 ping. Which is why I think we might as well switch to full window rolls and just a brisk start time, instead of randoms.

[Twochain]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342413&page=4

Lmao imagine not just binding G to stop song and crying for 5 years that you can't use a macro to do it.

1g2g3g4 and you have more control of song orders/tics

fucking noobs

[Ennewi]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=378314

The leadership continues to cause issues among players in game, on the forums & within the Green UN channel. They have a long history of trolling, inciting arguments and racism.

[Ratchet51]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=378314

I'm still disgusted by this decision...

[Ennewi]

Should be noted, Hazek was in DMO. Yes, we're back to drawing more parallels since analogies are too ambiguous.

[Ennewi]

Beefbroccoli has entered the chat.

[DeliciousHalflings]

I'm still disgusted by this decision...

Why? Why would anyone be upset that racists were punished for their ignorant views?

[xdrcfrx]

go back to racing instantly on spawn for the whole duration of the window. /random as the start condition is too easily cheated, and tbh if the "muh competition" crowd wants to insist on the lowest possible quality of life for everyone, let them reap what they sow and stand on those race lines for every single minute of that 16 hour window.

[Ennewi]

Samoht:


That's not how this works.

That's not the way evidence works.

Nah, that's not how science works.

THAT is how science works.


Also Samoht:


So you're saying that Riot is losing and wants free pixels, so they made up a reason that they believe gives them leverage to demand more free pixels.

In other words, just cry until daddy gives you want you want.

Quit playing the victim and start playing the game.

Based on your posts in this thread, it seems like your cognitive processes are already rather impaired. I'd hazard to guess that you cannot afford to lose many more brain cells without complete loss of motor skills.

This is nothing more than a witch hunt so Riot can get more free pixels.

I'm sorry the GMs saw right through your scam this time.

Now if Riot is done crying wolf, maybe you can go practice on trak, gore, and trips some more to prepare for the next quake.

It just makes you desperate.

Pull your head out of your ass.

Who's the real fucking cheaters here.

It's funny how you have so much to say but so little to add.

You're looking more and more like a cigarette salesman with every post.

His argument is fucking bullshit, and the fact that GMs haven't made any changes based on the video indicates to me that they agree.

Fucking losing all the time and trying to prove your opponents are cheating by using metrics set up entirely to frame them is pathetic.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES MS HAVE TO DO WITH FPS?

OP. MADE. THIS. SHIT. UP.

Paybacks a bitch.


This is not how a discussion between mature adults works.

Funny how that worked out, isn't it?

That it is.

[Naethyn]

When the cheaters left Riot and took over AG I left AG.

[sydbarrett25]

Lmao enewwi

[Croco]

go back to racing instantly on spawn for the whole duration of the window. /random as the start condition is too easily cheated, and tbh if the "muh competition" crowd wants to insist on the lowest possible quality of life for everyone, let them reap what they sow and stand on those race lines for every single minute of that 16 hour window.

Except it's just as easy to set up pixel detection to run on spawn as it is to script a race start on a 900+ roll. That was all included in the information kickenit sent to gm's. Both types of cheating are comically easy to set up.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Except it's just as easy to set up pixel detection to run on spawn as it is to script a race start on a 900+ roll. That was all included in the information kickenit sent to gm's. Both types of cheating are comically easy to set up.

Easy to set up. Very hard to prove. What is your solution, aside from just banning the winners if they happen to do too good? If you can't prove a cheat was used, you will end up banning innocent players too.

[Jimjam]

Couldn't you just use a sequence of warp commands to do a whole bunch of small jumps in sequence to perform a route and other clients will perceive that movement as running.

[Croco]

Easy to set up. Very hard to prove. What is your solution, aside from just banning the winners if they happen to do too good? If you can't prove a cheat was used, you will end up banning innocent players too.

There are no easy solutions. If we're bound by the project owners desire to have "competition" then the only way to prevent this type of cheating is have mobs rooted or leashed to an area. Then it becomes a first in force situation where you have a whole guild that would need to run to an area/spawn point to kill a mob instead of having an fte race.

If it were up to me and we weren't bound by some un-classic idea of "competition" I would keep blue/green separate and have one be the competitive server with all the raid rules you like to foster whatever kind of competition the masses desire and I'd have the other one be the rotation server where there is very little if any competition and raids are rotated between qualified guilds. Allow xfers between each server for a set amount of time and call it good.

The hardcore neckbeards get their competition server and the people who enjoy playing games on easy difficulty to experience the story get the rotation server.

/resolved

[OuterChimp]

Why don't the guilds going after the same mob just come to an agreement like, hey man, you get this one, we'll get teh next one and that other guild will get the third one.....then we just keep that going.

am I missing something?

[Croco]

Why don't the guilds going after the same mob just come to an agreement like, hey man, you get this one, we'll get teh next one and that other guild will get the third one.....then we just keep that going.

am I missing something?

Project owners have strictly forbid rotations and they reprimanded and removed gm's in the past who tried to set them up.

[unsunghero]

Project owners have strictly forbid rotations and they reprimanded and removed gm's in the past who tried to set them up.

How dare people try to cooperate

What assholes

[Allishia]

How dare people try to cooperate

What assholes

One issue with rotation is people make alt guilds for another spot in the rotation...this happened before when it use to be class r/c/ffa rotation /nod

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Couldn't you just use a sequence of warp commands to do a whole bunch of small jumps in sequence to perform a route and other clients will perceive that movement as running.

You could, but if it is the same pre-defined routes each time, the devs could see that pattern. That is easy enough to spot because your location data would be EXACTLY the same on multiple runs. That is basically impossible with floating point data for a normal person to accidentally do. You would have variation on each run for a legit player, even a well practiced one.

The issue here is if someone is using a script to get off the line quickly, the rest of the input is human driven, and thus will not have such an obvious pattern. Someone consistently getting off the line quickly is not proof in itself, because we all know some people on this server play very seriously all the time.

[PlsNoBan]

Easy to set up. Very hard to prove. What is your solution, aside from just banning the winners if they happen to do too good? If you can't prove a cheat was used, you will end up banning innocent players too.

Easy to do. Next to impossible to prove or detect anyone is using it. No easy solution exists other than getting rid of racing cause its bad. Whether its rolls or on spawn it's trivially easy to cheat undetected. Knowing this fact how can anyone justify keeping with this system?

Maybe the solution is just distribute a script that everyone can use to even the score :P

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Easy to do. Next to impossible to prove or detect anyone is using it. No easy solution exists other than getting rid of racing cause its bad. Whether its rolls or on spawn it's trivially easy to cheat undetected. Knowing this fact how can anyone justify keeping with this system?

Maybe the solution is just distribute a script that everyone can use to even the score :P

The problem is there aren't a lot of solutions. The devs and a large portion of the community do not want rotations, so that is out. Doing a /random for a mob is a pseudo rotation, and can be even less fair than a pre-defined rotation.

Rooting mobs is fair, but causes many mobs to require a zerg force. This means small guilds get the shaft.

Honestly the best solutions are racing or no rules at all if you want competition, especially if you want smaller guilds to participate. Before rooted dragons you would see four guilds in ToV (Kittens, Aftermath, AG, and Riot). That was healthier IMO.

[zati]

Easy to do. Next to impossible to prove or detect anyone is using it. No easy solution exists other than getting rid of racing cause its bad. Whether its rolls or on spawn it's trivially easy to cheat undetected. Knowing this fact how can anyone justify keeping with this system?

Maybe the solution is just distribute a script that everyone can use to even the score :P

The guy with lowest ping using the script among other scripters will win then back to square 1. EQ was never meant to be competitive e-sport.. period. You could argue it anyway you want, but in the end the original creators intended it to be a "dungeon crawler".

Another solution would be utilizing other games that are intentionally made for competition with built in cheat prevention, less variables, accessible for all. You can just nominate 1 person from each guild and make them play a game of Chess(doesn't have to be chess) and stream it on UN or P99 discord so people can watch it and maybe make Plat bets /shrug. Best out of 3 wins, advances to next round etc. It'd take less than 2hrs to figure out who gets the next soandso target and can be scheduled before mobs even spawn. Can even go further to say if X guild wins you have to CRAWL to the mob within a certain time-frame before conceding to next runner-up.

[Allishia]

Bring back 1 hour fte lockouts and small guilds can compete again /nod

[Praxcthius]

Naethyn, you left AG when you couldn’t buy a slot on the SOD giveaway raffle. And you offered a paltry 100k to anyone getting you a spot. Memories they fade with time and BS

[apathe]

Wtf 45 pages

[Duckwalk]

If I say it the loudest and longest, it makes it true. - Vanq

[Confit]

If I say it the loudest and longest, it makes it true. - Vanq

I'm gonna post this video of my scripted guild beating Vanq off the line to prove that Vanq is cheating -Riot

[Strifer]

Damn yall writing a book in 2 days here, lemme know when it becomes required reading for school if they don't torch it first.

Also imagine cheating for pixels. 23 year old elf sim. Hahah

[Convict]

Bring back 1 hour fte lockouts and small guilds can compete again /nod

Yeah I have been wondering what the justification was for removing lockouts because all it does it enable the top guild to monopolize content even easier with less risk.

I thought this was exactly what wasn't wanted by the gms. Wasn't one of the main ideas that guilds had to prioritize their targets? Now they can just go for anything all the time because if something better spawns, instant drop and go for it. Not that I am complaining but to me it feels like that decision seems to contradict what they said they wanted the raid scene to behave like.

[Duckwalk]

I'm gonna post this video of my scripted guild beating Vanq off the line to prove that Vanq is cheating -Riot

Im going to keep mischaracterizing the evidence to argue we arent cheating - Vanq

[pogs4ever]

Rotation 2022

[PlsNoBan]

Saying you want to recreate 1999 EQ then saying you want fiercely competitive endgame consisting of FTE and racing is hilarious to me. If you want esport EQ then just say that. Don't pretend you want to create 1999 EQ then make something different.

You have quite literally lost your mind if you honestly believe EQ PvE was meant to be competitive. Get some air or something. You need it.

[Rager and Quitter]

Holy shit. As a new Green server player I thought I wanted to raid on P99. This place is fucked beyond all recognition. Is this really how the end-game players are? Damn. What a disappointment.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Holy shit. As a new Green server player I thought I wanted to raid on P99. This place is fucked beyond all recognition. Is this really how the end-game players are? Damn. What a disappointment.

Honestly raiding isn't that bad, and is generally quite fun. Don't use these forums as a basis for trying to understand P99 raiding, especially on a Rants and Flames thread lol.

[MarauderOHHYEAH]

Holy shit. As a new Green server player I thought I wanted to raid on P99. This place is fucked beyond all recognition. Is this really how the end-game players are? Damn. What a disappointment.

The raiding is fun... but yes this is what you will deal with on a week to week basis

[Croco]

Holy shit. As a new Green server player I thought I wanted to raid on P99. This place is fucked beyond all recognition. Is this really how the end-game players are? Damn. What a disappointment.

Don't mind DSM and his rose colored glasses. This thread is exactly what you can expect from p99 raiding. It's nothing like what raiding was like on live servers in era. Honestly very little about this server is like how it was on live.

[Samoht]

Im going to keep mischaracterizing the evidence to argue we arent cheating - zeroz

Fixed that for you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Don't mind DSM and his rose colored glasses. This thread is exactly what you can expect from p99 raiding. It's nothing like what raiding was like on live servers in era. Honestly very little about this server is like how it was on live.

I have raided quite a lot on P99, and it is nothing like the forums. Most of the time you are having fun and killing mobs, even in a top guild. If you are an officer it is probably more stressful, but that is a volunteer position, and most people are not officers.

I am not sure how I am the one with rose colored glasses, when you are the one pining over how raiding was on live. I am not sure if any veteran player here actually believes P99 could be what you remember from live.

Realistically P99 will never match live, due to all of the game knowledge we have now, even if we magically found the code and the servers from the Classic-Velious era.

[Croco]

I have raided quite a lot on P99, and it is nothing like the forums. Most of the time you are having fun and killing mobs, even in a top guild. If you are an officer it is probably more stressful, but that is a volunteer position, and most people are not officers.

I am not sure how I am the one with rose colored glasses, when you are the one pining over how raiding was on live. I am not sure if any veteran player here actually believes P99 could be what you remember from live.

Realistically P99 will never match live, due to all of the game knowledge we have now, even if we magically found the code and the servers from the Classic-Velious era.

The project owners are the ones that are trying to replicate how everquest was in 1999, one would assume that includes raiding. Obviously you can't do that because of 20+ years of knowledge but they are desperately trying to anyways. Instead of giving us a pure 1999 sandbox and letting us innovate game play with the knowledge gained in the intervening years they've decided to make hundreds of changes to the server that deviate from classic EQ.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The project owners are the ones that are trying to replicate how everquest was in 1999, one would assume that includes raiding. Obviously you can't do that because of 20+ years of knowledge but they are desperately trying to anyways. Instead of giving us a pure 1999 sandbox and letting us innovate game play with the knowledge gained in the intervening years they've decided to make hundreds of changes to the server that deviate from classic EQ.

Oh I agree with you there. I don't really like many of the non-classic changes they have made, like rooted dragons, clickie nerfs, custom raiding rules, etc. Their lives would be much easier if they stepped back and let people play, but for whatever reason that isn't what has ended up happening, for better or worse.

[Chortles Snortles]

God forbid the server admins DM their own box as they see fit
(lol)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

God forbid the server admins DM their own box as they see fit
(lol)

Of course, and overall they have done an amazing job! You don't have to agree with all of their decisions to appreciate what they have done. P99 has great user retention rate precisely because of this.

[Allishia]

Holy shit. As a new Green server player I thought I wanted to raid on P99. This place is fucked beyond all recognition. Is this really how the end-game players are? Damn. What a disappointment.

Raiding is very fun you just have to avoid the drama /nod

[Flyrr]

i challenge you to a reaction contest!

[Chortles Snortles]

i win again (lol)

[Vasarious]

i challenge you to a reaction contest!

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! CHEATER!

[Bardp1999]

i win again (lol)

*cringes* *sips juice* *taps submitt*

https://i.imgur.com/8qO2YfO.jpg

[Detoxx]

this is called moving the goalposts, and is another bad faith rhetorical tactic. all things being equal, the first off the line is going to win the race. the route is easily practiced, and it doesn't take that long to learn how to run it. the advantage gained by scripting the start (which is both undeniably possible, and very easy to do) is the difference. in this line of thinking, to the extent stunningly is doing that then every race he has won could be suspect. more generally, every race is suspect from the outset, because there's not way to verify that the person who won didn't cheat to get the best jump. since we can no longer have any faith in the fairness of the result, the method of the contest should be changed.

bring back coth racing 2022.

This guy clearly doesnt race.

[PlsNoBan]

Holy shit. As a new Green server player I thought I wanted to raid on P99. This place is fucked beyond all recognition. Is this really how the end-game players are? Damn. What a disappointment.

This thread is a very good example of what you can expect from P99 endgame raiding unfortunately. It has been approximately this stupid and toxic for over a decade. Anyone telling you otherwise is lying / trolling / stupid or some combination thereof. I take no joy in delivering this fact but don't be misled. This kind of shit is exactly what you're up against on a regular basis if you ever want to raid here.

[Tunabros]

Holy shit. As a new Green server player I thought I wanted to raid on P99. This place is fucked beyond all recognition. Is this really how the end-game players are? Damn. What a disappointment.

nah it's just the blue server

on the green server, it's super friendly and there are almost no arguments

[SantagarBrax]

For the few people saying "Classic Everquest wasn't competitive", you're just not accepting the reality.

The entire game, in the "Classic" era and all the way through PoP, was designed to be competitive.

Every single aspect of this game is competitive, by its very nature, then you add a time locked server and that design will naturally magnify. This is the natural evolution of what "Classic" would have been had Smedley and company decided to take their time and not kill the game with half-assed and quick release expansion drops with little to no meaningful content. That was the number one factor and final nail in the coffin which every player on live could see, clear as day.

I can't believe there are people that have played here for years and don't recognize that this game, in era, has always been and will always be competitive. If you don't like competition, then you're playing the wrong game and/or server.

Stop your bitching and moaning at the owners of this server and those that work to facilitate and enjoy this goal immensely in an attempt to go against the very essence of what a successful Everquest was, and what Project 1999 is.

Sorry to detour your cheating dialogue, please continue.

[Jibartik]

bro i cried when someone took my glowing torch on rallos zek shit was highly competitive.

[Delekhan]

For the few people saying "Classic Everquest wasn't competitive", you're just not accepting the reality.

The entire game, in the "Classic" era and all the way through PoP, was designed to be competitive.

Every single aspect of this game is competitive, by its very nature, then you add a time locked server and that design will naturally magnify. This is the natural evolution of what "Classic" would have been had Smedley and company decided to take their time and not kill the game with half-assed and quick release expansion drops with little to no meaningful content. That was the number one factor and final nail in the coffin which every player on live could see, clear as day.

I can't believe there are people that have played here for years and don't recognize that this game, in era, has always been and will always be competitive. If you don't like competition, then you're playing the wrong game and/or server.

Stop your bitching and moaning at the owners of this server and those that work to facilitate and enjoy this goal immensely in an attempt to go against the very essence of what a successful Everquest was, and what Project 1999 is.

Sorry to detour your cheating dialogue, please continue.

I don't think they had any idea how the game would turn out when they designed it. Everquest became competitive, and the people developing it themselves were divided on how to approach it. The technology didn't exist at the time to do instancing, which is eventually the direction MMOs moved toward. It appears though that the community is and always has been split on instancing/competition in EQ and P99 is a reflection of that split.

[Twochain]

For the people talking about how EQ isn't treated as an E-sport, let me point out two huge flaws in that line of thinking.

1. People no lifed EverQuest on live worse than people do on p99. They didn't call it evercrack for nothing.

2. People have been playing p99 as if it is an e-sport.... for over a fucking decade on this server now. They raid scene has been pretty fiercely competitive, long enough to almost been in JR High School.

[zati]

For the few people saying "Classic Everquest wasn't competitive", you're just not accepting the reality.

The entire game, in the "Classic" era and all the way through PoP, was designed to be competitive.

Every single aspect of this game is competitive, by its very nature, then you add a time locked server and that design will naturally magnify. This is the natural evolution of what "Classic" would have been had Smedley and company decided to take their time and not kill the game with half-assed and quick release expansion drops with little to no meaningful content. That was the number one factor and final nail in the coffin which every player on live could see, clear as day.

I can't believe there are people that have played here for years and don't recognize that this game, in era, has always been and will always be competitive. If you don't like competition, then you're playing the wrong game and/or server.

Stop your bitching and moaning at the owners of this server and those that work to facilitate and enjoy this goal immensely in an attempt to go against the very essence of what a successful Everquest was, and what Project 1999 is.

Sorry to detour your cheating dialogue, please continue.

Nope. Original EQ was about grouping and making friends . Venturing out and discovering unknown areas as an unbalanced class with heavy penalties along the way.. which forced you to socialize and partner up to tackle on mobs(PvE). If you like competition maybe you are playing the wrong game and/or server.

[Twochain]

Nope. Original EQ was about grouping and making friends . Venturing out and discovering unknown areas as an unbalanced class with heavy penalties along the way.. which forced you to socialize and partner up to tackle on mobs(PvE). If you like competition maybe you are playing the wrong game and/or server.


lmao, that may have been YOUR experience with classic EQ... however that wasn't everybodies. There were top guilds on live that would award DKP to anyone who could make a recruit guild quit via drill sergeant esque tactics. A quick google search will show you a hundred of old forum posts non-p99 related, mostly being nostalgic about guild drama/raid drama back in the day.

My guild on Live, a family guild who couldn't kill Vindi in Luclin, even had a Ally/Hated guild list on their 90s era guild board.

And to your point, a LARGE majority played the game you are describing... but that's mainly because we were all huge noobs. People barely got 20 fps back in the day, let alone knew where the fuck to go to hunt, min/max strategies. But, raiding was really for only the servers elite/highest playtime people. Sure, you may remember doing plane of hate raids in Velious, but how many of you had a piece of TOV gear in a casual guild in Velious? (I'd love to hear your story - but I doubt any of ya'll do unless something crazy happened and you won a /random) Fuck, I never even heard of Vulak until I started playing on p99.

Which brings the point back to what i've said a billion times on these forums. Raiding Tov in Velious was for hardcore players. Raiding VP in kunark was for the absolute hardest of harcore players, there were servers who didn't even have VP dragons dead until well into Velious. Just look at the wiki for veeshan's peak. It's a zone dedicated to the hardest of hardcore raiders. Which pretty much how top end raiding on this server has been represented since p99's inception, as it was back in live.


54321 gogogo

[Jimjam]

Personally, I like to pretend eq isn’t competitive.

Truth is it starts as a survival horror, morphs into coop pve then is ultimately a competitive pve.

It’s a good job I ain’t gm - i’d make all raids open with loot being raffled off to attendees. If guilds want to tell their members they have to hand over their winnings to be auctioned off for dkp that would be up to them.

[Jimjam]

^ this would be a nightmare for all involved.

[Twochain]

Personally, I like to pretend eq isn’t competitive.

Truth is it starts as a survival horror, morphs into coop pve then is ultimately a competitive pve.

It’s a good job I ain’t gm - i’d make all raids open with loot being raffled off to attendees. If guilds want to tell their members they have to hand over their winnings to be auctioned off for dkp that would be up to them.

coop competitive pve.

It literally doesn't exist anywhere else outside of p99.

[zati]

lmao, that may have been YOUR experience with classic EQ... however that wasn't everybodies. There were top guilds on live that would award DKP to anyone who could make a recruit guild quit via drill sergeant esque tactics. A quick google search will show you a hundred of old forum posts non-p99 related, mostly being nostalgic about guild drama/raid drama back in the day.

My guild on Live, a family guild who couldn't kill Vindi in Luclin, even had a Ally/Hated guild list on their 90s era guild board.

And to your point, a LARGE majority played the game you are describing... but that's mainly because we were all huge noobs. People barely got 20 fps back in the day, let alone knew where the fuck to go to hunt, min/max strategies. But, raiding was really for only the servers elite/highest playtime people. Sure, you may remember doing plane of hate raids in Velious, but how many of you had a piece of TOV gear in a casual guild in Velious? (I'd love to hear your story - but I doubt any of ya'll do unless something crazy happened and you won a /random) Fuck, I never even heard of Vulak until I started playing on p99.

Which brings the point back to what i've said a billion times on these forums. Raiding Tov in Velious was for hardcore players. Raiding VP in kunark was for the absolute hardest of harcore players, there were servers who didn't even have VP dragons dead until well into Velious. Just look at the wiki for veeshan's peak. It's a zone dedicated to the hardest of hardcore raiders. Which pretty much how top end raiding on this server has been represented since p99's inception, as it was back in live.


54321 gogogo

Again the game isn't and wasn't about who hit the mob first or Coth first. That's the competition you are defending. Sitting on a computer for 16hrs tracking and or being quickest to react somehow translate into "EQ was competitive back in my day" When clearly guilds struggled to defeat a raid boss(or even find them), gear up, set up proper groups, communicate properly in chat... while on dial-up. <-- That was the "competition" it cannot be recreated because of Wiki access, game knowledge, 3rd party software(gina,discord) etc.

Sorry if you think EQ was created solely to be a competitive game, but there was other games in 99'-00' available that were actually built with anti cheating in mind Counterstrike is a good example of that. I Regularly switched from EQ, D2, and CS and never ever thought EQ in the same genre. FWIW I didn't know about Vulak either until P99 and searching thru wiki.

Here's a simple example most players are stuck in a loop with on this server. Super Mario RPG and Zelda Ocarina of time have speed runners that glitch thru the entire game and try to get the fastest record possible... But were those game created for speedrunners ? The whole intent by the makers is for SPEEDrunners or by accident? No, the genre of those games was to be played through once... That's what P99 has become.

[ClephNote]

So, zati, have you ever been in a raid guild? Ever? Were there raid guilds on your live server? Just because you didn’t partake in the singular experience of competitive PVE, doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

Training and kill stealing and unlocked corpses getting jacked and dps races, that was live. Sorry you didn’t see it. P99 has built a unique rule set, for sure, but that’s just different. No server was holding hands and accidentally running into Naggy in wonder. You’re ignert or just being disingenuous.

[zati]

So, zati, have you ever been in a raid guild? Ever? Were there raid guilds on your live server? Just because you didn’t partake in the singular experience of competitive PVE, doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

Training and kill stealing and unlocked corpses getting jacked and dps races, that was live. Sorry you didn’t see it. P99 has built a unique rule set, for sure, but that’s just different. No server was holding hands and accidentally running into Naggy in wonder. You’re ignert or just being disingenuous.

Nope. No man, I don't even have a FD class and I've never raced or fte'd or had a yellow text in my life and I like posting useless information and gaslighting to achieve my own agendas. I think we might be related.

[Bardp1999]

People no life Minecraft, doesnt make them e-athletes

[HanzzYolo]

Just want to say nice work - it's amazing to see peoples reactions in this thread. High end raiders stirred into a frenzy, 30+ year old trolls freaking out. I'd say that means you are onto something, and people are threatened by it.

[Capi]

Just had 2 sigma event on your moms tits.

[Insomnia]

coop competitive pve.

It literally doesn't exist anywhere else outside of p99.

Im not trying to defend it, but its alive and well in WoW still regardless of the state of the game atm. Having played regularly since vanilla up until mid shadowlands the race to being the best is still there with the elitists. But WoW needs a Furor to give them their 14 day ultimatum rant (though it feels weird to say this because the fucker actually worked on the game.)

[Croco]

Im not trying to defend it, but its alive and well in WoW still regardless of the state of the game atm. Having played regularly since vanilla up until mid shadowlands the race to being the best is still there with the elitists. But WoW needs a Furor to give them their 14 day ultimatum rant (though it feels weird to say this because the fucker actually worked on the game.)

The furoar on p99 is not the same one that worked for blizzard. He's a wannabe copycat.

[Toxigen]

The furoar on p99 is not the same one that worked for blizzard. He's a wannabe copycat.

You are one of the saltiest bitches to ever grace P99.

Hope this helps.

[Ripqozko]

You are one of the saltiest bitches to ever grace P99.

Hope this helps.

Yes he is

[ArbiterBlixen]

You are one of the saltiest bitches to ever grace P99.

Hope this helps.

Yup, he is

[Confit]

Im going to keep mischaracterizing the evidence to argue we arent cheating - Vanq

Mischaracterizing the evidence... lol. Sorry but that's already being achieved by people like you and this video. I see Stunningly on our test server practicing races for hours multiple days a week. And not just practicing races but teaching others how to race. He's one of the nicest guys I've ever met on P99. Sorry y'all spent 2 months putting together a video instead of practicing, hope this helps.

[Nibblewitz]

all while my guild slowly dies and the offending guild continually brags about beating us week after week.

[Twochain]

Again the game isn't and wasn't about who hit the mob first or Coth first. That's the competition you are defending. Sitting on a computer for 16hrs tracking and or being quickest to react somehow translate into "EQ was competitive back in my day" When clearly guilds struggled to defeat a raid boss(or even find them), gear up, set up proper groups, communicate properly in chat... while on dial-up. <-- That was the "competition" it cannot be recreated because of Wiki access, game knowledge, 3rd party software(gina,discord) etc.

Sorry if you think EQ was created solely to be a competitive game, but there was other games in 99'-00' available that were actually built with anti cheating in mind Counterstrike is a good example of that. I Regularly switched from EQ, D2, and CS and never ever thought EQ in the same genre. FWIW I didn't know about Vulak either until P99 and searching thru wiki.

Here's a simple example most players are stuck in a loop with on this server. Super Mario RPG and Zelda Ocarina of time have speed runners that glitch thru the entire game and try to get the fastest record possible... But were those game created for speedrunners ? The whole intent by the makers is for SPEEDrunners or by accident? No, the genre of those games was to be played through once... That's what P99 has become.

p99 wasn't created for raiders, it was created because there was obviously a large community of players who were direly in search of a classic EverQuest server. Foaming at the mouth with nostalgia.

But the point you're trying to make about speedrunners... is proving my point not yours. You're right, OOT was created to be played through once. So, what, we should punish speedrunners for loving the game so much that they decided that they wanted the ultimate bragging rights of being the fastest person to beat the game? And then having that bar constantly moved by thousands of people all over the world who all wanted to have those bragging rights? Every skip, glitch, every second shaved off the world record is a testament to every single person who once were trying to break that record. Every time that record was broken, it was off the back of someone who poured hours into something they were passionate about. Just like on p99. Every raid encounter strategy, every theory craft comes from the passion of all the raiders on this server, and this game over the last 20 years.

If you created a game, and 20 years later, 15 years after it lost it's spot as the genre defining game, there were still thousands of people trying to strategize and navigate your content, would you feel proud of what you created? Or would you turn your nose up in disgust, because HEY THATS NOT HOW I ENVISIONED THAT ENCOUNTER WOULD GO. Of course you would be proud. Do you think the makers of Ocarina of Time are somehow disturbed that their game, which is regarded as one of the best of all time, STILL TO THIS DAY has new glitches and skips found to shave time off of what is needed to roll the credits?

I think Brad would be happy to know that people still care about what he made. We're 6 years into velious and there are people who have played here for over a decade without ever stepping foot into north ToV. I know I would. If people are trying to be competitive about the game you created 2 decades ago, it's a game worth playing.

[Twochain]

Im not trying to defend it, but its alive and well in WoW still regardless of the state of the game atm. Having played regularly since vanilla up until mid shadowlands the race to being the best is still there with the elitists. But WoW needs a Furor to give them their 14 day ultimatum rant (though it feels weird to say this because the fucker actually worked on the game.)

It doesn't scratch the same itch because your racing a clock in an instanced enviroment, not racing for the same mob against another large group of 50+ people. P99 is like.. a PvEvP instead of a timed pve encounter. The PVE part of raiding is mostly trivial at this point, the other large group of raiders actively rushing you to the mob is the crucial part that is missing in a game like WoW

[Twochain]

So, zati, have you ever been in a raid guild? Ever? Were there raid guilds on your live server? Just because you didn’t partake in the singular experience of competitive PVE, doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.

Training and kill stealing and unlocked corpses getting jacked and dps races, that was live. Sorry you didn’t see it. P99 has built a unique rule set, for sure, but that’s just different. No server was holding hands and accidentally running into Naggy in wonder. You’re ignert or just being disingenuous.

Yeah, I feel like so many people have rose tinted glasses when it comes to online gaming in the early 2000s. It was grimy as fucking hell back then. Literally the wild wild west compared to now. I'd say p99's community is A LOT more trustworthy, helpful, and less wicked as Classic EQ.

And don't even get me started with diablo. I witnessed IRL friends pop bodies on purpose to loot their gear, hacking attempts, literally one in every 2 people you came across was trying to steal your gear from you, or would if they got the chance. Drop transfers were a thing because you could barely trust a single soul with xferring your gear on live. Nowadays? i've had random dial a port and kittens members transfer 100k worth of shit for me without even knowing them. Never had A S I N G L E issue with xferring shit on this server. Live? FORGET ABOUT IT LMAO.

[enjchanter]

The bad gameplay of everquest is masked by the scarcity of loot.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Just want to say nice work - it's amazing to see peoples reactions in this thread. High end raiders stirred into a frenzy, 30+ year old trolls freaking out. I'd say that means you are onto something, and people are threatened by it.

Not really. OP has poor evidence, masked by a well presented video. But since OP for some reason decided to post this in Rants and Flames, you are going to get more... ranting and flaming than a normal thread. It isn't due to OP having a good argument or good evidence.

Yeah, I feel like so many people have rose tinted glasses when it comes to online gaming in the early 2000s. It was grimy as fucking hell back then. Literally the wild wild west compared to now. I'd say p99's community is A LOT more trustworthy, helpful, and less wicked as Classic EQ.

And don't even get me started with diablo. I witnessed IRL friends pop bodies on purpose to loot their gear, hacking attempts, literally one in every 2 people you came across was trying to steal your gear from you, or would if they got the chance. Drop transfers were a thing because you could barely trust a single soul with xferring your gear on live. Nowadays? i've had random dial a port and kittens members transfer 100k worth of shit for me without even knowing them. Never had A S I N G L E issue with xferring shit on this server. Live? FORGET ABOUT IT LMAO.

This is very true. Online gaming in the early 2000s was a wild west. Every game had hacking, people said whatever they wanted (racial slurs, cursing, death threats, etc.), most sprays in Counter Strike were porn, racism, etc. People just got on and let loose.

The most mild example I could think of was everybody kept telling people Alt + F4 increased your download speeds in Starcraft. You would usually get one person who left the game immediately afterwards lol.

I was scammed a few times on Everquest in the Classic-Velious era as well. The P99 community is leaps and bounds ahead of the average online player back then in terms of trustworthiness and general non-douche-baggery. I would have never done an xfer with a random person on live lol.

[Tunabros]

yall hear the new beat that dropped in blue un?

shit is so fire

[zati]

p99 wasn't created for raiders, it was created because there was obviously a large community of players who were direly in search of a classic EverQuest server. Foaming at the mouth with nostalgia.

But the point you're trying to make about speedrunners... is proving my point not yours. You're right, OOT was created to be played through once. So, what, we should punish speedrunners for loving the game so much that they decided that they wanted the ultimate bragging rights of being the fastest person to beat the game? And then having that bar constantly moved by thousands of people all over the world who all wanted to have those bragging rights? Every skip, glitch, every second shaved off the world record is a testament to every single person who once were trying to break that record. Every time that record was broken, it was off the back of someone who poured hours into something they were passionate about. Just like on p99. Every raid encounter strategy, every theory craft comes from the passion of all the raiders on this server, and this game over the last 20 years.

If you created a game, and 20 years later, 15 years after it lost it's spot as the genre defining game, there were still thousands of people trying to strategize and navigate your content, would you feel proud of what you created? Or would you turn your nose up in disgust, because HEY THATS NOT HOW I ENVISIONED THAT ENCOUNTER WOULD GO. Of course you would be proud. Do you think the makers of Ocarina of Time are somehow disturbed that their game, which is regarded as one of the best of all time, STILL TO THIS DAY has new glitches and skips found to shave time off of what is needed to roll the credits?

I think Brad would be happy to know that people still care about what he made. We're 6 years into velious and there are people who have played here for over a decade without ever stepping foot into north ToV. I know I would. If people are trying to be competitive about the game you created 2 decades ago, it's a game worth playing.

It doesn't scratch the same itch because your racing a clock in an instanced enviroment, not racing for the same mob against another large group of 50+ people. P99 is like.. a PvEvP instead of a timed pve encounter. The PVE part of raiding is mostly trivial at this point, the other large group of raiders actively rushing you to the mob is the crucial part that is missing in a game like WoW

Yeah, I feel like so many people have rose tinted glasses when it comes to online gaming in the early 2000s. It was grimy as fucking hell back then. Literally the wild wild west compared to now. I'd say p99's community is A LOT more trustworthy, helpful, and less wicked as Classic EQ.

And don't even get me started with diablo. I witnessed IRL friends pop bodies on purpose to loot their gear, hacking attempts, literally one in every 2 people you came across was trying to steal your gear from you, or would if they got the chance. Drop transfers were a thing because you could barely trust a single soul with xferring your gear on live. Nowadays? i've had random dial a port and kittens members transfer 100k worth of shit for me without even knowing them. Never had A S I N G L E issue with xferring shit on this server. Live? FORGET ABOUT IT LMAO.

You seem very emotionally about it,but EQ staring at a screen for 16hrs straight waiting for a mob knowing when it spawns, knowing its exact location, using third party programs to assist(gina,discord) isn't competition. It's just pixel illness at that point to justify said behaviors. You act as if you "require another entity" in EQ to feel some sort of advancement and took my OoT out of context. You know those racers are playing versus "time" right? Ofc they post their timed runs and compare it to others online to see who is the fastest; but again they are playing in an "instanced environment". Raid end game scene is mostly like that now but the competition is still TIME (hitting the mob first in the most ridiculously way possible).

Take trakanon for example. You guys got a mage sitting on the hill for hours looking thru a wall listening to music and chatting on discord waiting for the mob to spawn so he can send off a batphone. Other 30-50 individuals are sitting at their desks staring at their character screens to hit "enter world" half aren't even gonna get summoned and they know it just to collect DKP. Your "Competition" is also doing the same thing yet the sole deciding factor of who wins is whoever can hit CoTH the quickest and most rogues available made it in the lair(Cause it might be 3 am!). God that's really competitive, required lots of skill, glitching, accumulation of years of expansive knowledge.........Yeah bud, Like I said EQ isn't not an E-sport, Hope this helps.

[xdrcfrx]

This guy clearly doesnt race.

wow what a compelling point! you really got me there.