Class C loses mobs on every repop?

[Daldaen]

So fear of month long bang in VP due to your strategy of ignoring trash spawn and training shit around. That makes sense.

What about the outdoor dragons. How much competition was there? Not much trash to worry about for the open world stuff, Trak/VS only have a handful of see invis on the way down and a handful in their respective rooms as well. Not too much to make an epic trainmonster and worry about eating a ban.

[Fysts]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. VP... It's depressing that the strategy on this server 99% of the time is train shit and Zerg down the dragon. Most of the challenge of EQ is meant to come from the environment, in that regard it means the add/trash clears. But alas, 14 years later ain't nobody got time for that.

2. Yea I understand it is "smarter" or rather, you are more likely to get a single kill by going to where your competition isn't. But... Those who were championing the importance of competition went on and on about how fun it is and how without it they wouldn't even want to raid. In the end however they went for the path of least resistance and didn't compete on the open world dragons, disproving their previous arguments.

I will give you a slight lesson in VP since you seem to have no experience there. Trash mobs are a 2min respawn, if that. Meaning you cannot clear them, they have to be trained.

On your second note I see it as a lack of performance from Class-R. Maybe Class-C was expecting competition on FFA mobs, but no class-r stepped up to the plate. I saw your raid discussions, you complained that it wasn't that you would not race for mobs, but the tactics Class-c guilds used for raiding you would not do, now that the tactics were removed for the respawns, Class-R still did not challenge them on even footing, thus making your statements just as false. Sorry both sides tried to play trump cards and wound up just throwing off suit. Why not challenge class-c on FFA mobs on respawns, then you have a healthy raid environment with class-c vs class-c on class-c mobs, class-c vs class-r vs anyone else on ffa, and class-r rotation on class r mobs, which i think is what the intended plan was trying to do. I think Rogean really wants Class-r to challenge Class-c on ffa, now that all Class-c advantages and dirty tactics as you call them are removed, and like i said if any guild in class-r needs a hand AoD is always willing to try to help.

[Fysts]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So fear of month long bang in VP due to your strategy of ignoring trash spawn and training shit around. That makes sense.

What about the outdoor dragons. How much competition was there? Not much trash to worry about for the open world stuff, Trak/VS only have a handful of see invis on the way down and a handful in their respective rooms as well. Not too much to make an epic trainmonster and worry about eating a ban.

VS I will address. Every guild on this server by now should know VS is always TMO priority on raid repops, it always has been. You had 3 guilds sitting in kc waiting on VS, now if you were a guildleader of say FE, wouldn't you go, "Hey guys TMO, and 2 other guilds are racing on VS, Lets go nail Trak. We will have to race bda" Now you take IB and they go hey lets nail sev while tmo and FE are busy with vs and trak. The failure IMHO was no Class-R guild said Hey TMO is at vs, FE is going for trak vs bda, Ib is forming in sev, lets go kill inny or fay while we got a window. This to me was just poor execution of strategy, you must be able to agree with this logic.

[Pheer]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So fear of month long bang in VP due to your strategy of ignoring trash spawn and training shit around. That makes sense.

What about the outdoor dragons. How much competition was there? Not much trash to worry about for the open world stuff, Trak/VS only have a handful of see invis on the way down and a handful in their respective rooms as well. Not too much to make an epic trainmonster and worry about eating a ban.

Lol.

You guys complain about how unreasonable it is to expect the other guilds to conform to the playstyle of the class c guilds, how no person should be expected to have to compete in this fashion with eachother. Then when the class c guilds go one repop doing it the way you guys advocated for you get mad and think its bullshit that we didn't train eachother into the ground.

I think I'm done with this thread, if you don't understand it by now then nothing I say is going to change your mind. /popcorn mode engaged since I'm sure this will be moved to RnF soon enough.

[lazcar]

Why don't you guys... idk... kill the trash? That's classic isn't it?? Killing trash before bosses..

[Daldaen]

Never spent any time in pre-vamp VP so I was unaware of the spawn time. But from my experience raiding other content there have been certain areas of zones similar to that respawn time and we would end up balancing down 4-5 mobs at a time, kill them all in a 20s window and then run quickly to another point past the static and ideally roaming mobs we just killed and repeat that process until near our target. But I am doubting that is applicable here since it would bleed your mana quickly and you can't recover it all that fast.

I agree with that logic if your goal is to attain pixels. Which it would be for most all guilds I'd imagine. But many people tried to argue competition was all that really mattered without it "free pixels" weren't worth their time. I guess respawns themselves don't allow for much competition since everything is up and so many would prefer to take that path of least resistance.

It is likely too early to throw around assumptions of how this whole thing will pan out. Perhaps in a few weeks there will be more competition within the class C and more between the classes for FFA mobs. We shall see.


Lol no. I'm not mad you didn't train each other to the ground Feign. But without competition it invalidates the earlier arguments made about why rotations and repops are bad. As I stated above it is too soon for me to continue judging this based on a single repop. I will simply have to choose other threads to read during work until then.

[Fysts]

I would agree with your last statement, and honestly I think Class-C was expecting alot more competition on the FFA mobs, as that to me was the FFA purpsose to allow Class-R to compete with Class-C without the penalty of moving to Class-C. Atleast as I have stated thats is my view. I guess my only argument would be Class-C mobs should ALWAYS be open to any guild/raidforce on the server at any time. If you wanted to make it truely interesting I would suggest this.

Respawn. All guilds are limited to 1 FFA kill, regardless of class. After 1 hour all Class-C mobs will become FFA. (Including VP) There is no limit/lockout on class-c mobs.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Fysts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would agree with your last statement, and honestly I think Class-C was expecting alot more competition on the FFA mobs, as that to me was the FFA purpsose to allow Class-R to compete with Class-C without the penalty of moving to Class-C. Atleast as I have stated thats is my view. I guess my only argument would be Class-C mobs should ALWAYS be open to any guild/raidforce on the server at any time. If you wanted to make it truely interesting I would suggest this.

Respawn. All guilds are limited to 1 FFA kill, regardless of class. After 1 hour all Class-C mobs will become FFA. (Including VP) There is no limit/lockout on class-c mobs.

I like this suggestion. It would keep Class C on its toes. But I'm not sure how many in class c would agree. Since that is sort of like giving yourself a handicap. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[Fysts]

Well Sometimes the best competition is racing the clock, yes? I think it would make the true nature of class-c on repops. They want competition, this would give them 2 forms, other guilds, and time.

Would also amend that any class-c mob that went FFA after 1 hour would not be held against bag limit, this way all Guilds could compete regardless of prior kills. This to me would make raiding fun again, even for the class-c.

[Brut]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Never spent any time in pre-vamp VP so I was unaware of the spawn time. But from my experience raiding other content there have been certain areas of zones similar to that respawn time and we would end up balancing down 4-5 mobs at a time, kill them all in a 20s window and then run quickly to another point past the static and ideally roaming mobs we just killed and repeat that process until near our target. But I am doubting that is applicable here since it would bleed your mana quickly and you can't recover it all that fast.

And because the wurms work like black reavers, respawning on their kill point repeatedly for random amount of times. Usually while you're working on the repops the pather is already back. This isn't Vex Thal, clearing the same trash for countless hours until raid reaches a boss isn't the way the zone is meant to be handled.