Game Mechanics: Charmed npcs do too much damage

[koros]

NPC and PC hits should probably be more normally distributed, with npc's having local maxima at min hit and max hit.

PCs should be similar, with the mean being weapon damage x 2 + damage bonus and slight peaks at min and max hit.

NPCs here hit max or near max all the damn time on other npcs, it doesn't look very normally distributed.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

NPCs here hit max or near max all the damn time on other npcs, it doesn't look very normally distributed.

Koros def one of my fave posters and totally agree here

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sorry if you don't like it Nirgon, but when you have a game where the mobs are stronger than the PCs, a skill like charm is going to be OP as fuck. If it were up to me a spell like Allure would cost 800 mana. But it doesn't. Based on what Xornn wrote if anything I think charm is too weak here.

Charm was certainly a powerful spell and it should be here. But the risk/reward isn't quite in line. I'll read through this Xorn posting but I did group with enchanters who had all their sky/hate gear, buffed their CHA and had their epic. The advice of them that I succinctly recall during the time was "find a good green and charm it".

Having a dar knight charmed, even at 255 CHA for more than 4 minutes is crazy. I think its more to do with the resists than with the CHA duration.

IE: Huggie I think it was came by the necro guardian house and saw me with said charmed dar knight and was like seriously how the hell do you have that thing charmed that long. To which I responded, yes this is not classic.

However! I think with high CHA the values are rather close but again, full duration charms for druids in plane of fear are just crazy. Highly resistant mobs should be just that and break charm very easily.

In seb on a 60 wizard I can spam root without resist really ever on a krup or illis knight here. On live, bok and above would definitely get fairly regular resists on root. At 57 I solo'd seb entrance with my wizard epic on live and based on my experience here on a 60 wizard, I noticed 2 things:

1. I didn't regularly resist force shock type spells NEARLY enough (140+ magic from a blue con source, it should literally not land once) and cold nukes from shamans and fire nukes from wizards even at 180ish range were hitting for quite a bit (even back to back to back full damage hits) whereas at that resist range from a blue con caster on me should rarely if actually ever land one of those spells on me.
2. Root landed every single time I casted it on blue cons.

I stand by this as something I do exactly remember as I did it for many hours, across many weeks in my playing and have in fact tested it here.

I further stand by my assertions on Sirran being dictated here and that mage sword procs need to go away in this time line based on the facts that we should be at END (last day) of Kunark on our time line and SK bash for epic and mage sword proc on unsummoned from pets fix was in in the same patch.

That's all for today~

PS: Shit is getting classic from the recent wave of fixes I saw which does indeed include Sirran. Let's tie up mage sword procs + necro heal retro being dispellable.

[Splorf22]

Nirgon you rely too much on your memory. Just because you talked to an enchanter who liked to charm green/lb cons is not proof that charm sucked. In fact if you talk to most enchanters here they will only charm lb pets. It's mostly those of us that learned with the (insanely OP) Pre-Kunark charm and then couldn't quite give it up that charm higher-level stuff and figure out ways to make it work. Like when The A-Team charms those splits in Sky, recharming by yourself is basically impossible. You get to run around screaming for help while someone else mezzes them.

http://web.archive.org/web/200101231...ML/000930.html

Heh tell that to a enchanter friend of mine who soloed the king room in guk. It's not easy but they have the power of a necromancer. Err oh yah this was pre expansion at 49 too.

enchanters are nearly useless too (except for the occasional charm against something like Venril Sathir's guards which RARELY works).

Well I've played both, my enchanter I only took to 40, but my necro went to 50th pre-kunark. From what I saw in my many trips to POF/POH is that the enchanters did a very good job, of charming things (as long as they weren't scarelings ) and I did alright on my necro up there. There were times when I didn't feel I was that useful, but we all contributed to the end result.

So as always some people can do it and some people can't, but the mechanics make it possible.

[TarukShmaruk]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Koros def one of my fave posters and totally agree here



Charm was certainly a powerful spell and it should be here. But the risk/reward isn't quite in line. I'll read through this Xorn posting but I did group with enchanters who had all their sky/hate gear, buffed their CHA and had their epic. The advice of them that I succinctly recall during the time was "find a good green and charm it".

Having a dar knight charmed, even at 255 CHA for more than 4 minutes is crazy. I think its more to do with the resists than with the CHA duration.

IE: Huggie I think it was came by the necro guardian house and saw me with said charmed dar knight and was like seriously how the hell do you have that thing charmed that long. To which I responded, yes this is not classic.

However! I think with high CHA the values are rather close but again, full duration charms for druids in plane of fear are just crazy. Highly resistant mobs should be just that and break charm very easily.

In seb on a 60 wizard I can spam root without resist really ever on a krup or illis knight here. On live, bok and above would definitely get fairly regular resists on root. At 57 I solo'd seb entrance with my wizard epic on live and based on my experience here on a 60 wizard, I noticed 2 things:

1. I didn't regularly resist force shock type spells NEARLY enough (140+ magic from a blue con source, it should literally not land once) and cold nukes from shamans and fire nukes from wizards even at 180ish range were hitting for quite a bit (even back to back to back full damage hits) whereas at that resist range from a blue con caster on me should rarely if actually ever land one of those spells on me.
2. Root landed every single time I casted it on blue cons.

I stand by this as something I do exactly remember as I did it for many hours, across many weeks in my playing and have in fact tested it here.

I further stand by my assertions on Sirran being dictated here and that mage sword procs need to go away in this time line based on the facts that we should be at END (last day) of Kunark on our time line and SK bash for epic and mage sword proc on unsummoned from pets fix was in in the same patch.

That's all for today~

PS: Shit is getting classic from the recent wave of fixes I saw which does indeed include Sirran. Let's tie up mage sword procs + necro heal retro being dispellable.

The only spells that would reliably resist against lower con mobs were those with secondary effects attached to them - Force Shock against 150 MR would basically never ever ever ever land because of the stun, but a regular nuke would land all the time for full damage or at least partial damage.