ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by holahouze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Who do you think his barber is in that cave? Bloodraven? Meera? Hodor?

I like terribad. I'm going to use it, if you don't mind.

not Jojen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not Jojen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jojen's not available right now..[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[holahouze]

@Sirken, @Spyder73, hang on, I'm going to make some popcorn.

Dany's obiviously important to the story. Jon's uber important. They're both dragons. But, Jon's ice + fire.

I think the biggest tactical mistake Dany has made to this point is ignoring her dragons. For that matter, same is true for Varys and Illyrio. I can not understand those guys. Somebody is going to ride Rhaegal and Viserion, and they better step on training/wrangling those things or someone else will.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by holahouze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jojen's not available right now..[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

fucking years ago when i finished book 5, i remember thinking, "will somebody PLEASE get Jojen a fucking blanket?"

and then after season 4 it was just like... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

fucking years ago when i finished book 5, i remember thinking, "will somebody PLEASE get Jojen a fucking blanket?"

and then after season 4 it was just like... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ha! Showrunners took a giant dump on Jojen. But, i blame Howland. What kind of parent sends their kids off on a 1000 mile walkabout? Bran was the only one of the bunch that didn't have sore feet.

[Spyder73]

I can see how the story for Jon is going to develop already.

Jon is resurrected - thus releasing him from his Night's Watch vow - he discovers he has King's blood from the Red Lady (because there is power in kings blood) and maybe she tells him he is the Chosen One and not Stanis, after further investigation he figures out he is part Stark part Targaryen and has a claim to the throne....But honestly it makes more sense for him to die defending the realm from the white walkers. Maybe one of Dannys Dragons seeks him out and they bond and reign terror North of the Wall, but if anyone is going to sacrifice themselves, its going to be Jon Snow, not Danny. It would be very Ned Stark of him to do the noble thing.

And there is pretty much nothing that could piss me off more than Jon taking up the Targaryen surname and pretending to be a king. He is the very embodiment of the Starks and he would become Jon Stark, not Jon Targaryen regardless of who his father really is.

Danny on the other hand, is going to be the ruler of the world, not just Westeros. The entire series has been building to her taking back over the Iron Throne, like literally the entire series. Her story is almost entirely independent of all other stories. I don't even know what the point of including her in the series would be if not for the culmination of her uniting ALL lands under her banner (Westeros and across the ocean)

I would agree that Jon and Dannys stories share A LOT of similarities, He is Ice and she is Fire. But in the nature of Ice and Fire, Danny will rule and Jon will suffer

[Spyder73]

All this anticipation for the new season has got me reading sh!t on the internet. What about this little nugget?

Tyrion is a Targaryen
According to this theory, Tyrion, the character played by Peter Dinklage, is not the son of Tywin Lannister. All this time, he was actually the child of the Mad King Aerys II Targaryen – who supposedly slept with Tywin's wife, Joanna Lannister. "In George RR Martin's books, the physical attributes of Tyrion (eye colour, hair, etc.) are described as being different than his relatives," explains Tim Falkenberg for New Media RockStars.

"Tyrion has a 'black' eye (the Mad King's are described as purple) and pale blonde hair similar to the Mad King." Fans of the television show have also trawled through previous episodes to find evidence to back up the claim.

They note that, after the Battle of the Blackwater, Tywin told Tyrion: "Mens' laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colours since I cannot prove that you are not mine." And of course, when Tyrion killed Tywin, the dying man's last words were: "You are no son of mine."

Jon, Danny, Tyrion as the 3 Dragon Riders?

[Sidelle]

I really think some people here are underestimating Dany. She'll never be "just some king's wife".

She hasn't done too badly for a young exiled child queen that has had almost no real guidance or experience. Granted, she's done some shit that frustrated me while reading the books, but all in all, I think she was just learning how to rule. She actually cares about the common people. That's a good place to start from.

Imagine how different things might be at this point in the books if she had Dragonbinder in her possession, along with a proper sorcerer to bind those unruly teenage dragons of hers. (I wonder if the new red priestess she will evidently meet on the show in season six can help her out or if a situation like that will come up in Winds of Winter).

Nope, I still say Dany is fierce. She could be a great queen, and even when she makes her mistakes she's a hell of a lot better at ruling than Robert, the mad king, Cercei, etc, combined. I guess I sorta of think of her like a female version of Rhaegar. He would have been a good king, by most accounts if I remember correctly.

Now to address the issue of Westeros never having a sole female ruling in her own right. Putting aside any issues about future Dornish involvement and possible alliances, etc, let me just put this out there:

There is a first time for everything. That's why it's called "setting a precedent". Providing she can get those dragons in line (with Dragonbinder, sorcery, whatever) she has a real chance of taking Westeros in her own name. Why the fuck would she have to marry her nephew (fAegon) or anyone else, for that matter? That idea is for Strong Belwas to poop on.

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by Sidelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I really think some people here are underestimating Dany. She'll never be "just some king's wife".

She hasn't done too badly for a young exiled child queen that has had almost no real guidance or experience. Granted, she's done some shit that frustrated me while reading the books, but all in all, I think she was just learning how to rule. She actually cares about the common people. That's a good place to start from.

Imagine how different things might be at this point in the books if she had Dragonbinder in her possession, along with a proper sorcerer to bind those unruly teenage dragons of hers. (I wonder if the new red priestess she will evidently meet on the show in season six can help her out or if a situation like that will come up in Winds of Winter).

Nope, I still say Dany is fierce. She could be a great queen, and even when she makes her mistakes she's a hell of a lot better at ruling than Robert, the mad king, Cercei, etc, combined. I guess I sorta of think of her like a female version of Rhaegar. He would have been a good king, by most accounts if I remember correctly.

Now to address the issue of Westeros never having a sole female ruling in her own right. Putting aside any issues about future Dornish involvement and possible alliances, etc, let me just put this out there:

There is a first time for everything. That's why it's called "setting a precedent". Providing she can get those dragons in line (with Dragonbinder, sorcery, whatever) she has a real chance of taking Westeros in her own name. Why the fuck would she have to marry her nephew (fAegon) or anyone else, for that matter? That idea is for Strong Belwas to poop on.

Sidelle, this is for you and Spyder. The thing about where Martin has left us with 5th book is, its plausible every major character can go multiple and nearly opposite directions. We don't know who'll make it to the finish line, but some won't.

Here is an example. I think Jon is most special. Ice+Fire (especially Ice because I don't think we've seen what the Old Gods can do yet). I think he is positioned to save the world (or lead that effort), unlike others angling for a throne. I much dislike the idea of Melisandre resurrecting Jon. Absolutely hated her conditions for Jon taking Winterfell - renounce Old Gods and burn the Weirwoods. That was one of the biggest "Fuck that" moments for me as reader. But, maybe she does resurrect Jon via red/fire magic, and maybe Jon wakes up thinking "that" is what his life as been missing. Then, we got a whole other ballgame.

I totally agree Dany is major character. I'm not overly fond of her because of some of her decisions. Some of those are borderline poor storytelling to me. But, she could make it to the finish line - if we define the finish line as ruling. There are several things in the background that I think will slow or stop her. Of the top of my head -- she's not handled her towering strength, her dragons, properly. I think she will lose at least one. It could be Victorian, for e.g., and its hard to see being her "Prince Phillip". Euron, less so. fAegon has a better claim, is on the right side of water, and i reckon he'll align with Dorne. Then what? Hard to see Dany accept being his Queen. And, I think we might see Dany's crazy gene fully activate. Maybe Tyrion will get through to her and keep her on track. Then again, maybe Dany will ask for the heads all other Lannisters once she has power, and Tyrion will end up pulling a Jamie.

All of this isn't meant to settle differences of opinion obviously. We need Martin to get on the stick and sell us what we desire so badly. He could break records with the price of the next book.

[Patriam1066]

Jon is the hero. Dany is the martyr who will remember the things she lacked in life (love, family, and a place to call home) and as a result, will nobly sacrifice herself to save the people of Westeros. Sansa will be queen, and fAegon, the blackfyre descended son of a rich, ambitious merchant, will die the death of a pawn, because ultimately, GRRM is a postmodern liberal with that type of sensibility. Regardless, I love the books and even some of the social commentary made within them.

I wish Aegon could marry Sansa and that they could take the Kingdom with the backing of Jon (ruling as a stark in winterfell after defeating the Others with Dany's help). In this alternative future, Rickon would be given the Dreadfort, henceforth known as Shaggyfort. Alas, Aegon is fucked because the only reason GRRM would introduce such an ambiguous character at this point is to demonstrate how life turns out for those who legitimately deserve better when they are manipulated by those who suck. I'm probably wrong about this, but I just can't see a reason to add Aegon other than to make a commentary about people like Illyrio, Varys, Aegon himself.