Which class when played with skill affects your group the most?

[aMindAmok]

Originally Posted by Kotopes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I almost never seen well-played necros, and was surprised this is just as rare on P99 compared with Live. Granted I didn't group with many here yet so bear with me.

I want to be a well played necro in groups. First challenge is getting a group though. I know being a necro means I can solo stuff if I want to. Doesn't mean I don't like to group too. People just don't give necros as much opportunity to practice those skills. After an hour of lfg we just go off on our own because we can and that is what people expect us to do anyway.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Brut [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Monk isn't relevant at all unless it's a tough camp that actually needs to be single pulls, or a named camp where you don't care to kill trash and just wan't that king solo.

On an exp grp any class can really pull. Just bring mobs in, cc the adds, kill em, keep pulling more. Long as the puller is decent at keeping pace and pulling without leaving stupid amounts of downtime, FD isn't even required.

I know a lot of monks are proud to bring single pulls, but it really frustrates me when we have a decent CC team, heals and crazy dps in groups and the 'skillful' monk insists on spending ages bring in single pulls. This means the monk's dps has a down time every pull, or even worse the camp runs out of mobs and the entire group's dps is having down time.

I think the real skill in pulling is not taking the time to get single pulls, but quickly getting a manageable number of mobs in to camp to ensure dps is constantly/efficiently applied.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Secondly, the bard epic is 55% haste, 30 str, and 30 ATK.

I wasn't including epics since this thread seemed more geared towards the kind of groups that would be formed where people probably don't have epics, but yes the Bard gains ground with the epic since it gives the class a lot more extra ability in comparison to Enchanter epic.

Still, even with that included, their slow debuff is inferior and Enchanter has the much higher DPS capability. Under ideal conditions an Enchanter pet can be 70% hasted (or at least 66% hasted assuming Epic, if there isn't free mana to spend on the 70% haste), which is phenomenal DPS.

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, if we're talking about high dps estimates, 120 dps from a charm pet is definitely on the high side.

Dual-wielding, hasted pet can definitely do more than 120 DPS.

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But the big thing is that the question was "which class when played with skill affects your group the most?"... I don't think casting haste every 42 mins (VoG) or c2 every 35 minutes really takes skill.

Controlling a max-DPS charm pet, on top of doing the group buffs, AND debuffing targets, AND also Crowd Control, is where the skill ceiling for Enchanter should be discussed. You need to constantly position yourself very well, constantly tell the pet to /sit far enough away, and constantly be attentive of exactly when charm breaks, so that you can mez the pet before it gets to you. Then juggle everything else with that.

[lonmoer]

People need to re-read the original question: "Which class when played with skill affects your group the most?"

Not which class has more powerful versions of spells. Not which class has more DPS. Not which class can be the best duo partner or can pull the best.

[Nixtar]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know a lot of monks are proud to bring single pulls, but it really frustrates me when we have a decent CC team, heals and crazy dps in groups and the 'skillful' monk insists on spending ages bring in single pulls. This means the monk's dps has a down time every pull, or even worse the camp runs out of mobs and the entire group's dps is having down time.

I think the real skill in pulling is not taking the time to get single pulls, but quickly getting a manageable number of mobs in to camp to ensure dps is constantly/efficiently applied.

A good monk won't just single pull, but keep tabs on every single solitary spawn in order to ensure you have a constant chain of pulls.

Sure, the monk won't press as many keys as a bard or cast fancy spells but a GOOD monk will be 10 steps ahead of the group. Meanwhile, the group is will sit there, apparently, oblivious to the fact why it was a such a good exp night and why they didn't wipe a single time. But a bard/chanter sure looks more active, I'll give you that.

[Brut]

Originally Posted by Nixtar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A good monk won't just single pull, but keep tabs on every single solitary spawn in order to ensure you have a constant chain of pulls.

Any class can do this. You don't need to be a monk to bring mobs into a camp, just to split mobs. Actually if it's an outdoors zone, a bard completely outperforms monk in this, due to selos.

[Nixtar]

Originally Posted by Brut [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any class can do this. You don't need to be a monk to bring mobs into a camp, just to split mobs. Actually if it's an outdoors zone, a bard completely outperforms monk in this, due to selos.

Any class can do it poorly, yes. A wizard can also do damage so therefor on par with rogues in groups?

Also, a bard in a group outdoors have never happened. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Brut [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any class can do this. You don't need to be a monk to bring mobs into a camp, just to split mobs. Actually if it's an outdoors zone, a bard completely outperforms monk in this, due to selos.

Agreed. Remembering what order you pulled mobs isn't a monk exclusive skill. And in xp groups I'd rather the puller ran off once every 5 minutes instead of every 60 seconds in order to apply more of his awesome dps.

Obviously, some times it is better to forgo a chunk of dps and have the mobs come in 1x1, but in most grind situations this is not necessary.

[Lojik]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agreed. Remembering what order you pulled mobs isn't a monk exclusive skill. And in xp groups I'd rather the puller ran off once every 5 minutes instead of every 60 seconds in order to apply more of his awesome dps.

Obviously, some times it is better to forgo a chunk of dps and have the mobs come in 1x1, but in most grind situations this is not necessary.

If it's just chain pulling and you have good CC, sure any class can do it. If you don't have an enc/bard, and if you don't have a cleric for rezzes, not fucking up the pull is pretty important. I feel like rez availability spoils p99 players compared to live, since so many people have a rez bot parked close by, and dying doesn't really matter as much. If you need to limit the numbers on pulls, monk is the best when you do a sort of average between indoor, outdoor, and resistant/non CCable mobs, but obviously some classes are slightly better for pulling in some specific situations.

If you're talking about a run of the mill xp group (4-6 players,) I don't really think player skill is going to be involved very much after a certain point, since these types of groups set up in places that are ideal anyway on p99. If you start pushing the limits of what your group can do and try more challenging places to level (these are usually dungeons,) I think player skill factors into the situation more. I think the 3 classes most relevant to this discussion for this kind of situation are Monk, Bard, Enchanter.

[Halfelfbard]

A bard that barely ever talks in group is what you want. Thats how you know you got urself a good one.