Claw of Lightning is disappointing (ranger)

[Solist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for going back and running an experiment! If you don't mind sharing the logs either here or in DM I'd like to generate hit distribution graphs like the ones I posted in the ranger AC thread. I'll bet that they all have <3% max hits and around 30% min hits.

I wish the "What is this bullshit we parsed this a decade ago" people would explain what they're talking about because if they're talking about xp mobs I'm pretty sure they're wrong. If they're talking about raid mobs I remain open to the possibility that something is broken, but I would love to see some data showing that.

If in fact the "ranger AC is broken" thing is pure folklore here's my speculation on how it came to be:

* Ranger is an inherently inferior tank due to lower skill caps on defensive skills
* Because rangers are usually pulling or adding DPS and since gear choices always have tradeoffs, most people gear their ranger for strength, dex, and resists. And since all the ranger races start out with fairly low str/sta/dex there's more ground to make up there too.
* Because of those first two points, when a ranger is forced to step in and tank, the healer's gonna notice the difference compared to other tanks
* Because there's mob-specific hardcaps on the impact of AC, it's easy to accidentally run an experiment and conclude AC has no impact
* Because most people look at DPS instead of a hit distribution histogram, it's harder to tell exactly what AC is doing

What are you talking about.

I have two rangers. One in vulak gear. Other in garbage SS etc.

With 300 ac difference they take identical damage in every parse. And a best in slot ranger (another 150ac) tanks identical too.

This is not the case for any other class. It’s been tested extensively.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s been tested extensively.

You need to post that data if you want people to listen. I don't think anybody in this thread has seen the data you are talking about.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What are you talking about.

I have two rangers. One in vulak gear. Other in garbage SS etc.

With 300 ac difference they take identical damage in every parse. And a best in slot ranger (another 150ac) tanks identical too.

This is not the case for any other class. It’s been tested extensively.

Look at what I posted in https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...438517&page=10 and the next four pages and tell me what I'm missing.

Or post some data.

[Snaggles]

I promised to do more testing and may revisit this in a new thread comparing the Meljeldin to the BoF+Claw. It ended up being a pain proccing Avatar before every parse but at least I feel the test was as accurate as could be with roughly 60,000 hps (10x shady kills) with each setup.

PS: sorry for the formatting. Also, I didn’t use the BoF since I would have to edit out the 100dd as it would skew the testing. This NPC has Dain-like mitigation.

Offhand Test: Swiftwind vs Claw
Shady Swashbuckler, level 45 npc, 6k hps, max hit 114
Snared to start fight, dark cloak of sky + Yeli gloves (91% self haste)
When fleeing would face npc so not to bypass npc's defensive skills

Silver Whip of Rage + Swiftwind + CoTP + SoN + Avatar. Max STR, 1489 attack

Fight Time DPS Hits Max Hit Average Hit
Shady 1 130 46 241 65 24
Shady 2 139 43 263 68 22
Shady 3 128 46 248 68 24
Shady 4 127 47 250 68 24
Shady 5 137 43 269 68 22
Shady 6 118 51 253 68 23
Shady 7 112 53 234 68 25
Shady 8 137 44 274 68 22
Shady 9 122 49 259 65 23
Shady 10 129 46 251 67 23
Shady Set 1279 47 2542 68 23

Silver Whip of Rage + Claw of Lightning + CoTP + SoN + Avatar. Max STR, 1448 attack

Fight Time DPS Hits Max Hit Average Hit
Shady 1 114 52 245 65 24
Shady 2 134 45 272 65 22
Shady 3 111 54 249 65 24
Shady 4 127 47 272 60 22
Shady 5 122 49 258 65 23
Shady 6 138 43 267 62 22
Shady 7 118 50 254 65 23
Shady 8 133 45 268 65 22
Shady 9 126 47 253 63 23
Shady 9 129 46 268 65 22
Shady Set 1252 48 2606 65 23


Summary: basically 47 dps vs 48 dps, win goes to the claw.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I promised to do more testing and may revisit this in a new thread comparing the Meljeldin to the BoF+Claw. It ended up being a pain proccing Avatar before every parse but at least I feel the test was as accurate as could be with roughly 60,000 hps (10x shady kills) with each setup.

PS: sorry for the formatting. Also, I didn’t use the BoF since I would have to edit out the 100dd as it would skew the testing. This NPC has Dain-like mitigation.

Offhand Test: Swiftwind vs Claw
Shady Swashbuckler, level 45 npc, 6k hps, max hit 114
Snared to start fight, dark cloak of sky + Yeli gloves (91% self haste)
When fleeing would face npc so not to bypass npc's defensive skills

Silver Whip of Rage + Swiftwind + CoTP + SoN + Avatar. Max STR, 1489 attack

Fight Time DPS Hits Max Hit Average Hit
Shady 1 130 46 241 65 24
Shady 2 139 43 263 68 22
Shady 3 128 46 248 68 24
Shady 4 127 47 250 68 24
Shady 5 137 43 269 68 22
Shady 6 118 51 253 68 23
Shady 7 112 53 234 68 25
Shady 8 137 44 274 68 22
Shady 9 122 49 259 65 23
Shady 10 129 46 251 67 23
Shady Set 1279 47 2542 68 23

Silver Whip of Rage + Claw of Lightning + CoTP + SoN + Avatar. Max STR, 1448 attack

Fight Time DPS Hits Max Hit Average Hit
Shady 1 114 52 245 65 24
Shady 2 134 45 272 65 22
Shady 3 111 54 249 65 24
Shady 4 127 47 272 60 22
Shady 5 122 49 258 65 23
Shady 6 138 43 267 62 22
Shady 7 118 50 254 65 23
Shady 8 133 45 268 65 22
Shady 9 126 47 253 63 23
Shady 9 129 46 268 65 22
Shady Set 1252 48 2606 65 23


Summary: basically 47 dps vs 48 dps, win goes to the claw.

Thank you very much for spending the time and posting the results! I appreciate the detail and buff list. It's really cool that Rangers can get +195 ATK with this setup, and can go over 200 with AoB.

This matches with my calculator as well. Claw of Lightning in offhand is ~1 DPS higher.

It seems like Shady has around 700 AC since he is getting you down to 48 DPS. This is assuming 200 Defense skill, as he is level 45.

[Snaggles]

Thanks DSM!

It’s a weird mob. Less glamorous than a real raid target but I can solo it and it’s easy to find up. I would encourage people to try it as well with their own setups to see if they can draw trends as well. Maybe while just sitting in the tunnel looking for their next impulse buy? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Crede]

I regret spending money/time on ranger 1h. Just go silver swiftblade, woodmans staff, then cek 2h. Pick up a swarmcaller as well. They can't tank for shit so less riposte is ideal.

[Snaggles]

Yea my obsessive curiosity wasted a lot of DKP. Swapping stuff around kills time during a ring war or HoT though.

The most efficient path for dps classes is just to get a really good 2h. It’s often cheaper as well unless that 2h is an Abashi but nobody cries over that spend.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yea my obsessive curiosity wasted a lot of DKP. Swapping stuff around kills time during a ring war or HoT though.

The most efficient path for dps classes is just to get a really good 2h. It’s often cheaper as well unless that 2h is an Abashi but nobody cries over that spend.

Lucky for monks bo staff is 2nd bis and way cheaper than 1h options

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lucky for monks bo staff is 2nd bis and way cheaper than 1h options

Totally, I guess the logic still holds up. Don’t get distracted by flashy things. 2h and send it.