Progression? lol

[Happyfeet]

Originally Posted by Ring [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remember that time Kinsawt talked Zeelot out of a Donald's BP and gave him a Tolan's BP instead? TMO won that Trak fair and square too. That should have been the first hint that your leadership is lacking.

[Tue Aug 02 20:51:01 2011] You say, 'what items go from who to where?'
[Tue Aug 02 20:51:24 2011] Kinsawt says, 'If all you want is for us to not sit on the spawn, that's fine. Get rid of the First 15 rule'
[Tue Aug 02 20:51:29 2011] Zeelot says, 'we get RBB, 2 teeth, Tolans BP. Kinsawt wants: Dragon hero bracer, 1 tooth, Donals bp'

At the time we needed keys more than loot and you can't divide 3 teeth down the middle last time I tried, hence we took 2 teeth and worse loot. Chiro's Donald's BP was replaced within a week or so.

[LevinJ]

Originally Posted by Noser [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's a lot of arbitrary punishment coming from the administration and it seems that its creating backlash and suspicion. Everyone is wondering why in some cases an entire guild is suspended and in other cases it's just one individual or some such.

The problem with any disciplinary action is that it has to be consistent, otherwise people begin to question the motive. The GMs/Devs should either a) work on setting some standards to insure consistency b) make raiding free-for-all if they want to be let off the hook. or c) keep being inconsistent and getting flamed for it.

Noser, read the chat logs. The punishments with very few exceptions are consistent. The most glaring inconsistency is probably Uthgaard's excessive punishments against choice TR members. Why was TMO raid suspended? Because one of their officers intentionally approached another guild fighting a raid encounter and used an AE spell to break the mezz of every add they had in the entire fight. He then, additionally, used SK aggro spells to taunt the mob off the guild tank and reposition the mob, causing the guild to whipe. As I heard it, his guild then moved in and killed said raid mob while it was at 30% before it had been allowed to reset. I might be mistaken on that last part though (it might have been a different guild). TR collected evidence including fraps, logs, and the TMO officer did not deny it. Another TMO officer's response (see the chat logs) was to openly admit to all of this but claim it is permissible because TMO wasn't satisfied with GM enforcement on other occasions.

This is the same as if someone robbed a bank, shot the teller in the process, then when being arrested said "well you didn't arrest the guy who cut me off the other day on the road even though I called 911 and complained, so I figured it was ok to do this today."

As Rogean said, the vast majority of incidents are simply "too close to call" and GM intervention is impossible for either side. If TR ends up with an edge at all it isn't because of GM favoritism - it is because TR knows how to handle things maturely.

Look at how many threads here are trolling and shouting like a 12 year old on a playground. How many of them are started by TR compared to TMO in the past six months? The leadership of TR is simply more mature and more articulate than TMO. From early on, TR leadership acted like professionals. They collected evidence, made thorough petitions, then waited for results. Sometimes they won, more often than not they lost on the petition front. Most petitions were never responded to. TR for a long time had a strict rule against posting in RnF by any member.

TMO, on the other hand, allowed their members to post here without limitation and to speak as members of the guild. Look at their chat logs - even the officers spoke to Rogean like self-entitled teenagers. TMO QQ'ed their way into infamy. If it seems now that they are the poor mistreated Cinderella of the server, it is because the squeeky wheel gets the grease. They simply cry more and louder.

[quido]

Selective enforcement.

All the data is there - it can be harvested. The "too close too call" scenario should have been a relic of the past a year ago for all but the very occasional set of circumstances. For whatever reason we haven't seen an implementation that can help shed light on these situations. Would it really be that damn hard to have the server keep track of some intermittent locations (during pulls) of certain outdoor dragons? No. Would it really be that difficult to allow guides to see aggro lists and such for certain raid mobs when the encounter doesn't result in a kill? No.

A couple weeks ago I watched as a pair of TR monk alts repeatedly aggroed Vox, ran through a door into our camp, waited a moment, and FDed in an attempt to have her glitch aggro us through the wall. Deny it or whatever, I don't care; it definitely happened, and it definitely happened out of malice. I don't give a fuck about a single encounter. What I care about is that we have absolutely zero recourse against shady behavior given the state of things, usually. If you want to try to enforce a set of ridiculous rules, how about you actually give yourselves and your staff the means by which you and they can effectively and fairly mediate these disputes, because right now it just looks like you're leaving things purposely unclear, purposely vague, to give yourselves wiggle room to do whatever the fuck it is you please for whatever reason.

I know I'm going to get trashed for posting this and I really don't care what you think. If you'd seen the events of recent history unfold as I had, given that you're a reasonable person with a three-digit IQ, you couldn't not agree.

For one reason or another, this is a bunch of fucking bullshit.

[mostbitter]

gms should just disband these guilds and put a 30 member limit on guilds across the server then everyone can watch dbz and be happy

[Pheer]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A couple weeks ago I watched as a pair of TR monk alts repeatedly aggroed Vox, ran through a door into our camp, waited a moment, and FDed in an attempt to have her glitch aggro us through the wall. Deny it or whatever, I don't care; it definitely happened, and it definitely happened out of malice. I don't give a fuck about a single encounter. What I care about is that we have absolutely zero recourse against shady behavior given the state of things, usually. If you want to try to enforce a set of ridiculous rules, how about you actually give yourselves and your staff the means by which you and they can effectively and fairly mediate these disputes, because right now it just looks like you're leaving things purposely unclear, purposely vague, to give yourselves wiggle room to do whatever the fuck it is you please for whatever reason.

Damn I think this is only like the 8372nd time I've seen someone bitch about their interpretation of a situation without any real hard facts to back it up. "He fd'ed somewhere in my vicinity so he was trying to train me."

I remember a time in fear where I was kiting a solid 1/3 of the zone in circles around the zone in portal as people in both TR and TMO zoned in. Then when I ran out near the firewall picking up any strays on the way to north wall to keep the path clear as BOTH guilds ran there, ooc immediately was spammed with TMO people bitching that I was "trying to train them" and other such nonsense, followed immediately by a tell from a gm asking me why they were getting a tidal wave of crying from TMO members claiming I tried to train them.

[LevinJ]

Originally Posted by Pheer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

they were getting a tidal wave of crying from TMO members claiming I tried to train them.

This. Read my last post and then read this. GMs are human, too. Anyone on this board who would be judgmental, think how you would feel as a GM if this is what you get all the time from one guild.

In TR, when we felt something wrong was happening, our bitching was in guildchat - not directed at GMs. (Until we learned that a certain GM had silently added himself to our guild and was monitoring our guildchat and feeding info to another guild... but that's another story.) Then a guild officer would tell us to stfu and let them handle it and ask for all fraps/logs/etc to be sent to them so they could collect it and send one coherent message to the GMs.

[relapsee69]

Originally Posted by Pheer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Damn I think this is only like the 8372nd time I've seen someone bitch about their interpretation of a situation without any real hard facts to back it up.

[Zereh]

Rogean acknowledged that he has indeed ruled against TR in -a- dispute. That's right folks. One time. Just how many petitions have involved IB/TR. And one time they were found to be in the wrong.

If anyone had been paying attention to what has been going on around here for the past eight weeks or so they would have known that a shitstorm was brewing. How many of TMO's raid-related petitions have been responded to in the past two months? That would be a big fat fucking ZERO. Yet all it takes is one personal phone call from TR before he comes charging onto the scene to fix their widdle problem.

How about a quick recap of the lastest two incidents involving TR and TMO:

Sev pops. TMO had first aggro, mobilized first and was pulling him to our camp when TR decided they had the right to gank Sev because they didn't agree with the route the Sev was on while being pulled. No rule was being broken by TMO ~ TR just didn't like how it was being done. TMO was not stalling for time and hoping for more to log in (though that is a fine trick that TR uses frequently and successfully) they had a raid force there and ready. But TR grabs Sev and takes the kill. TMO petitions. Again. That’s one more in the queue gathering dust. But not one peep was said about this incident by the staff. Not addressing an issue like that is tantamount to giving TR permission to do as they please. Yes, TR’s rule lawyers were out in force over this one but it all boils down to the fact that they are very confident that they have the right to do as they wish.

But wait, here's the good part! TMO touches a couple of the 87 adds that are at the entrance of KC while TR is losing their asses to VS and guess what happens? TMO is banned from raiding for a week. We didn't cause them to wipe. We didn't try to gank VS out from under them. We touched their adds. Adds which they did not have under control.

So the lesson learned from this round is: TR ganking a dragon is perfectly acceptable; TMO touching trash mobs means a raid suspension. If you can’t see the huge disparity of how things are enforced around here it is because you don't want to – it’s not because it doesn't exist.

You do realize that by bring up Uthgaard you just drive home the fact that the "even playing field" that is supposed to exist on P99 is an utter myth. =P Uthgaard was the only one who didn't kowtow to TR. He was expected to cater to TR but refused to do so. So the only person who had the balls to call TR out on their shit ... is gone. And now that he isn’t around, you're back to business as usual. With approval from the top no less.

So does that mean you finally win EQ, Bro 99 style?

[Rogean]

Lol, I have never seen so many baseless unproven claims in a rage thread before in my life. Yea, we have an upstanding policy on the staff to do nothing but favor TR in disputes. I tell all my GM's and Guide's to make sure they cater to TR.

Get a fucking life Zereh.

[Kinsawt]

A 'couple' according to Zereh.

[Fri Oct 21 03:45:26 2011] Zeelot begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] A drolvarg sentry writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] A drolvarg sentry writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Spectral caller writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Skeletal lookout writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Spectral caller writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Skeletal watcher writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Spectral curate writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Spectral curate writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Spectral caller writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Spectral curate writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Spectral curate writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Spectral caller writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Skeletal protector writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Spectral curate writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Spectral caller writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:29 2011] Spectral caller writhes in pain.

[Fri Oct 21 03:45:43 2011] Zeelot begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Zeelot regains concentration and continues casting.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] A drolvarg sentry writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] A drolvarg sentry writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Spectral caller writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Skeletal lookout writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Spectral caller writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Skeletal guardian writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Skeletal watcher writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Spectral curate writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Spectral curate writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Spectral caller writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Spectral curate writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Spectral curate writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Spectral caller writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Spectral protector writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Skeletal protector writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Spectral knight writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Spectral curate writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Spectral caller writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Spectral caller writhes in pain.
[Fri Oct 21 03:45:47 2011] Kaluien has been slain by spectral curate!