Life after Velious... we can make it better!

[deadreaver777]

I was reading the popular thread the other night about introducing AA's, and in regards to that, I think it would be a god awful idea to put AA's into Velious content. Not only would it make the content immensely easier, it just doesn't fit with the server's vision. The subject did get me thinking though, it got me asking the question, can new expansions be introduced on this server after Velious?

There's no doubt that introducing Luclin, and Planes of Power in their pure form would be a horrible idea for this server, because without question, despite being enjoyable expansions, they were the downfall of EverQuest as most of us knew it. But what if we do those expansions right? What if the devs in P99 removed what made those expansions worse than the original 3 games. I know P99 doesn't have a huge team of developers that have an immense amount of time on their hands to do it, but I still think it's interesting to think of a way to fit them in.

So the question I pose is, what did Shadows of Luclin, and Planes of Power do right, where did they go wrong, and what could be added, removed, or refined in those expansions to make them as good as their predecessors? I'm stopping with Luclin and PoP, because let's be honest, any expansion after that was pure garbage, at least in my humble opinion.

Shadows of Luclin

the good
(1)AA's were a nice addition, and being that there was no level increase past level 60, it gave you ways of improving your characters
(2)Despite the silly idea of cats on the moon, the raiding content was still enjoyable, and right on par with Velious, regardless of the time sinks.
(3)Beastlord's were an enjoyable class, and a good addition to the class list.

the bad
(1) Starting with this expansion, it seems like older content, especially from classic EQ, was becoming completely irrelevant. Zones like Paludal caverns killed other lower level zones, and funneled most new players and alts into one zone. Also loot became significantly better than previous expansions, especially classic, and made a lot of classic loot worthless.
(2) The Bazaar. While convenient, it killed a huge social aspect of the game. I can understand some people preferring The Bazaar, but give me the old fashioned EC tunnel anyday.
(3)Mounts. Poorly designed, and made SoW, one of the signature buffs of EQ, a little less significant. And again... poorly designed. Why do I ride my horse with my arms at my side?!?!?!
(4) Luclin models. Again, a matter of opinion, but just like the mounts, they were poorly designed in my opinion. Despite having more animation, and pixelation, their charisma compared to classic models was daunting.

Improvement?
(1) Remove The Bazaar, keep EC alive.
(2) Make some adjustments to loot, both Luclin, and/or previous expansion loot to give people reasons to go back to zones like Guk, or Sol B.
(3)Remove mounts, and Luclin models

Planes of Power

the good
(1) Amazing zones, amazing music, and one of the best, if not the best raid content.
(2) An increased level cap, and the addition of newer, cooler AA's
(3) The fight against the gods! Kind of goes hand in hand with (1), but there was nothing more satisfying than downing the likes of Fennin Ro, Bertox, Rallos Zek and more.

the bad
(1) Plane of Knowledge. While the zone itself isn't necessarily bad, the books/stones in the zone ruined a key aspect of the game. PoK made travel irrelevant. This addition, and this addition alone is what made the expansion bad, in my opinion.
(2) I'm kind of on the edge about this one, but flagging for zones became daunting at times, especially if you didn't have time to raid. Then again, I did kind of enjoy the flagging aspect as well.
(3) even more irrelevancy of classic content. Item stats became even more increasingly abundant, and once again, older zones began to die off as a result.

Improvements?
(1) Removal of all books and stones throughout Norrath, plain and simple. The only book that should be left in, or left functional, is the Nexus < PoK stone
(2) even more item adjustment, to keep older content alive and well.

Last but not least Ill throw Legacy of Ykesha in the mix. Horrible expansion, with the exception of shared bank slots... Yes please? As a matter of fact, it would be nice to have this without the xpac. All content in the expansion I could do without though.

If this server did expand beyond Velious, I would much rather see these two expansions, with revisions/updates, than brand new content, which some other people are suggesting. Everyone has different opinions, and by no means am I speaking out on behalf of everyone in the community. Everyone has their idea of what made these expansions great, or horrible, and I respect everyone's opinion, and am not trying to start a debate, I'm just trying to throw some ideas out there.

TL;DR
If the game expanded past Velious, into SoL, PoP, or even beyond, what would you like to see removed, revised, or added to these expansions to make them EverQuest worthy? I personally would only like to see the game go up to PoP, but if you feel other expansions could be added smoothly, and justly, by all means, let us know how, and why.

Thanks everyone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] hopefully this gets some good ideas flowing, regardless if they implement them or not. Regardless, we aren't even in Velious yet, and when it is, I'm sure it will be around for a long time, so until then, let's take advantage of one of the best eras in gaming history!

[Humerox]

There was a very good thread started a LONG time ago referencing some ideas about what to do after Velious.

HERE


This was the original post by guineapig:

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So this is all completely hypothetical of course.
I just wanted to see if I could place all the Planes of Power zones (besides Knowledge and Tranquility) in to the original trilogy in a way that would make sense.

This is what I came up with for zone connections:
(UPDATED 5/13/11)


Lavastorm/SolC
* Doomfire, the Burning Lands
- Solusek Ro's Tower


Ogguk (possibly a port from Arena?)
* Drunder, Fortress of Zek (Plane of Tactics)

Qeynos Catacombs, A'Kanon or (Innhotule)
* Plane of Disease
- Ruins of Lxanvom (Crypt of Decay)

Steamfont
* Plane of Innovation

Halas
* Plane of Justice

Plane of Fear
* Plane of Nightmare
- Lair of Terris Thule

Plane of Air
* Plane of Sky
- Eryslai, the Kingdom of Wind

North or South Karana
* Plane of Storms (possible druid port?)
- Torden, the Bastion of Thunder

Plane of Hate
Plane of Torment (reason being that Saryrn is most closely tied to Innoruuk)

Lower Guk (live side)
* Plane of Valor
- Halls of Honor
-*- Temple of Marr

Kedge Keep
* Reef of Coirnav (yes, I know Prexus is not directly related to the plane of water.)

Lake Rathetier
* Vegarlson, the Earthen Badlands
- Ragrax, Stronghold of the Twelve

The Hole
* Plane of Time A
- Plane of Time B


on the fence:
Plane of Knowledge: would not be in the game unless it was somewhere real f'ing hard to get to like through the Tower of Frozen Shadow Mirror.
I think if it just had a single zone in zone out like that and no portals/books to anywhere else then it would be okay.
(In my original draft PoK wasn't even listed... I just added the idea based on posts below)

For the zones that are located in cities: The location of the zone in would always be the corresponding race's Cleric or Shaman guild hall. (Possibly an alter of some sort or what have you.)

This adds a little bit of challenge because obviously you will have members of the raid party that would be KoS in these cities which would further add to the importance of factions in the game. (Alternately you could just invis through the zone every time.)
Also, this creates new life for old cities.

Note that while Kunark and velious zones will be all the rage for the next couple of years, thereby lowering the classic zone populations, the introduction of this version of PoP will reignite the need for travel in the old world zones. There will be multiple options open for low level players and no matter where they go there will be some high level players hanging around as well. This is something that we never see in EQ now, except in PoK on live (or EC tunnel in the case of this server.) Instead of creating one main hub , many cities will have people in them and therefor resons for low and high level players alike to revisit.

I would go as far as to say that most of the things that were added to PoK should be added to the old world cities (and Cabalis) instead.
(Druid and Wizard ports should never be useless in my vision! )

For the Planes that are located within the older planes (Fear, Hate, Sky, Growth) zoning in to the next zone would be a one way ticket. This makes it not possible to use this zone line as an easy way to clear agro and jump right back in. Also the zone line to the second Plane would be somewhat deep in the zone, requiring you to clear your way to torment from Hate (unless the zone was already cleared). Whether or not you need to have killed Inny to be flagged for Torment remains in question (I could care less either way).

I’m on the fence about where to put Plane of Time so I just figured The Sleepers Tomb being the end game in Velious would be appropriate. ( EDIT: Someone suggested leaving out PoT all together... not a horrible idea. )

Level cap increased to 65 with PoP
AA's (if implemented) are capped per level and you can never get them all. You have to specialize.
Re-specialization is an option via a semi-complex quest.
Minimum level requirement (if the zone is even implemented) to enter PoK (somewhere between 46 and 60).

Feel free to add your own opinions and ideas.
(Can you tell I’m bored at work?)


EDIT: Thanks for all that added ideas. I still prefer the use of starting city shaman and cleric guilds for the portals that lead to major deities but there is definitely something to be said for keeping raids from having to zone through a town. So I added both. (Personally, I really like the idea of keeping factions an integral part of the game, something that PoP kind of ruined.)

[Autumnbow]

I would personally like to see gnome/halfling paladins, gnome shadowknights, halfling rangers, vah shir, beastlords, frogloks and berserkers added at some point. Obviously not with the entire expansions they were added during :P

[Ferok]

I don't necessarily agree with all the zone connections as described by guineapig, but that's basically what I've been imagining as well for PoP - no PoK, integrate the zones throughout Old World/Kunark/Velious/Luclin and through wizard portals. This ensures everything stays relevant, travel stays hard.

Also, while it means retuning alot of raids, I'd also no level cap lift to 65. Gear and AA's should be all progression requires - this ensures that Kunark and Velious encounters stay relevant to progression. AA's and some new world loot give late-comers a little bit of a step up to beating these encounters, without completely trivializing them.

[Ferok]

Originally Posted by Autumnbow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would personally like to see gnome/halfling paladins, gnome shadowknights, halfling rangers, vah shir, beastlords, frogloks and berserkers added at some point. Obviously not with the entire expansions they were added during :P

I'm fine adding none of those things. Vah shir, beastlords, frogloks, berserkers especially.

[Tecmos Deception]

Bazaar on p99 would just be a formalization of EC forums + wiki pricing + auction-tracking website that everyone already use. It was a big deal on live because these things didn't exist (or at least weren't used by many people). On here? It'd just let people twink their new alt more quickly, sell their bone chips more easily, and whatever.

[Rogean]

Bazaar will never exist.
PoKnowledge will never exist.

Nexus... maybe.
AA's.. unlikely but I wouldn't completely rule them out.. maybe a small amount of them.

But reusing plane of power zones and attaching them to existing zonelines spread out across the current norrath, definitely a possibility. Those zones look great, and lots of room for content. All the mobs and itemization would be custom to stay in line with velious level RvR.

[Ferok]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bazaar will never exist.
PoKnowledge will never exist.

Nexus... maybe.
AA's.. unlikely but I wouldn't completely rule them out.. maybe a small amount of them.

But reusing plane of power zones and attaching them to existing zonelines spread out across the current norrath, definitely a possibility. Those zones look great, and lots of room for content. All the mobs and itemization would be custom to stay in line with velious level RvR.

I disagree with your general disposition on AA's, but otherwise it's like you read my mind...

...I think nexus is a natural certainty, and I don't think it's at all game-breaking. It makes travel a little simpler, but it still takes a bit of time. And since Antonica's nexus hub is in North Karana, it means that part of the world gets a little more use, but also that porting stays relevant.

I don't like the idea of the bazaar, but I wonder that with Nexus being what it is, whether or not EC survives being so far away from a nexus port.

[Autumnbow]

I really dislike the Nexus, but that may be because I come from a Zek server, and it was the introduction of "safezones", the beginning of the end of PvP. Maybe /shout, /ooc and /auction could be disabled there to prevent it from becoming the new auction zone, and people would move the auction zone to GFay where it rightfully belongs :P

[Ferok]

More likely it would become shadowhaven.

Gfay is difficult because there's no evil vendors or bank.