Class C loses mobs on every repop?

[Sarkhan]

So C-guilds shared VP due to problems with trains and such but what I do not understand is why they felt the need to go after FFA mobs in the first place instead of heading straight for VP.

If one of those guilds decided to go for VP they could have cleaned some of those dragons without splitting loot while the other two C-guilds were busy killing lesser FFA mobs.

[Sarkhan]

A 2 mob bag limit seems reasonable as it isn't only about "the now" situation but about implementing a raid scene that will hopefully hold up for the future. As it is the bag limit only applies to respawns which, at most, happen 4 times a month.

Maybe I'm just too passive but it doesn't seem like such a huge problem to be upset over respawns that were not even in the game before the new raid rules. Being extra mobs it makes sense to me that guilds are limited to two of them.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Fysts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

VS I will address. Every guild on this server by now should know VS is always TMO priority on raid repops, it always has been. You had 3 guilds sitting in kc waiting on VS, now if you were a guildleader of say FE, wouldn't you go, "Hey guys TMO, and 2 other guilds are racing on VS, Lets go nail Trak. We will have to race bda" Now you take IB and they go hey lets nail sev while tmo and FE are busy with vs and trak. The failure IMHO was no Class-R guild said Hey TMO is at vs, FE is going for trak vs bda, Ib is forming in sev, lets go kill inny or fay while we got a window. This to me was just poor execution of strategy, you must be able to agree with this logic.

this is one of the dumbest things I have read. Both those mobs were classified as Tier C and thus any R guild ( or aspiring R guild) that killed them would be rewarded with only competing versus TMO/IB/FE til the staff had mercy on them and dropped them out of the tier

please think your thoughts all the way through before you spit out brainless sentences onto the forums

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Brut [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And because the wurms work like black reavers, respawning on their kill point repeatedly for random amount of times. Usually while you're working on the repops the pather is already back. This isn't Vex Thal, clearing the same trash for countless hours until raid reaches a boss isn't the way the zone is meant to be handled.

Don't think the zone is meant to be a train away tons of mob fest either though. Very few EQ mechanics encouraged training or kiting stuff. But I guess it's the path of least resistance.

[chu]

Originally Posted by chu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

im sorry to interupt i just want to know what all ur definition of "uncontested" is in this context

still waiting for an answer
til i know, im gonna have a lot of trouble understanding this thread

[Fysts]

Originally Posted by Sarkhan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A 2 mob bag limit seems reasonable as it isn't only about "the now" situation but about implementing a raid scene that will hopefully hold up for the future. As it is the bag limit only applies to respawns which, at most, happen 4 times a month.

Maybe I'm just too passive but it doesn't seem like such a huge problem to be upset over respawns that were not even in the game before the new raid rules. Being extra mobs it makes sense to me that guilds are limited to two of them.

I do not see how it ever makes sense for any Class-C mob to bot be able to be engage by any and all guilds. That is the point of a class-c mob, that anyone can kill it. If there is any situation in which a class-c spawn will be awarded to class-r guilds without competition from class-c then the system is flawed. Class-R should be class-R engageable, FFA mobs should be engagable by any class without penalty, and class-C mobs should be open for all to engage, with the rule it moves a guild into class-c. It is that simple.

[Hitpoint]

Seems to be lots of irrelevant discussion here. Lets try to get back on track.

Originally Posted by Troubled [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't have to take every single target that is available, every single time. You are getting the lion's share. 12 of 17. 70?ish%. Is my logic flawed or is this right?

That's correct, we don't have to get every single target. But we're probably going to try to, and it would be an option if this loophole didn't exist. People quoting numbers and saying how we don't deserve so many mobs, or that the deal already favors us (yes, it OBVIOUSLY favors Class C, just like every plan has, just like they should) are all making strawman arguments. This isn't about what you think we're entitled to, the rotation is already set, and the numbers have already been agreed to. This is about a very specific loophole in a set of rules that were implemented and agreed upon by Class R , and class R only.

Originally Posted by lazcar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No your logic is perfect, tmo/fe/ib that are complaining are just greedy.

We're all greedy. But I don't think that trying to make sure you get what you're entitled to in writing, counts as greedy.

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. VP... It's depressing that the strategy on this server 99% of the time is train shit and Zerg down the dragon. Most of the challenge of EQ is meant to come from the environment, in that regard it means the add/trash clears. But alas, 14 years later ain't nobody got time for that.

2. Yea I understand it is "smarter" or rather, you are more likely to get a single kill by going to where your competition isn't. But... Those who were championing the importance of competition went on and on about how fun it is and how without it they wouldn't even want to raid. In the end however they went for the path of least resistance and didn't compete on the open world dragons, disproving their previous arguments.

Clearing trash in VP is time consuming and complicated, as you are probably aware by now. It makes zero sense to kill them when you can simply move them and walk past. Class C guilds try to be efficient about most things, and that includes time. But this thread isn't about VP.

We would prefer not to waste the first mob on a repop by going where another top guild is going to be. Watch how competitive the regular spawns will be. But again, this is completely off topic.

Originally Posted by lazcar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why don't you guys... idk... kill the trash? That's classic isn't it?? Killing trash before bosses..

See above. Endless spawning wurms, zero reason to, etc. Not to mention there are people who spent countless hours building their dragon faction. I for one would not want to kill a single trash mob in VP.

Originally Posted by Sarkhan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So C-guilds shared VP due to problems with trains and such but what I do not understand is why they felt the need to go after FFA mobs in the first place instead of heading straight for VP.

If one of those guilds decided to go for VP they could have cleaned some of those dragons without splitting loot while the other two C-guilds were busy killing lesser FFA mobs.

Just because there's a new server agreement about sharing mobs doesn't mean the class C guilds aren't going to try to get as many as they can. We leave Class R spawns alone, and the 2 FFA mobs that we were not allowed to attack due to the bag limit. That's how R benefits from this agreement. Class C guilds going to VP first is just terrible for everyone involved. They do not want to go to VP first, as it makes no sense to do so. Is there reason to? Sure, I bet any one of us would have wanted a solo PD kill. But it would mean giving up something else. If one guild went to VP first, probably the others would notice and also be forced to give up world spawn mobs. Luckily for us, that didn't happen.

I wish in general, people would stop discussing what Class C chooses to do with their time on a repop. If you think they collaborate, and for that you think they are hypocrites whatever, it doesn't matter because it's within the rules and that's not what this thread is about. There has been a few intelligent suggestions so far, thank you for those.

[Crosswind]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wish in general, people would stop discussing what Class C chooses to do with their time on a repop. If you think they collaborate, and for that you think they are hypocrites whatever, it doesn't matter because it's within the rules and that's not what this thread is about. .

Hey, we've been telling you throughout the process that working together is better than competing for mobs. I, for one, appreciate that TMO/FE/IB decided to work together as a team to take down some FFA mobs instead of competing over VP. I think it's a step towards a more civilized raid scene.

Being competitive about raiding is dumb. I'm glad you chose to make deals instead of competing, and I think it'll lead to a more positive raid environment. Maybe you guys can even settle on a rotation to maximize your mobs per unit effort!