Myconid Spore King - Monk Solo [Archive] - Page 4

Zuranthium

07-08-2025, 06:09 PM

DSM, I don't know what has made you decide to die on this hill more. Believing that you had the intellect to engage with the big boys in this thread, or maybe you just have a hard-on for Sscalez, but it's over, you've lost.

It's both of those things. DSM is the little dog that always needs to try and bite the big dog's leg, and he can't ever accept being put in his place when he does stupid things, so he barks and barks nonstop.

Because of the constant valid criticisms DSM has faced, which he is incapable of listening to, he feels the need to insert himself into threads where another person is facing valid criticism or where he thinks he can make himself look like an authority figure. He feels like he will be exonerated and somehow stop receiving criticism ever again, if he can try to "protect" someone else from valid criticism or "win" an argument. No matter how wrong and foolish his thoughts are, he will keep trying to argue them to the death, because otherwise he'll have to face the reality that he is indeed wrong and foolish.

buffs are NOT the same thing as having other players there DPSing and healing

Yes it is. An outside buff literally requires another player for it to happen and it literally uses their power to complete the encounter, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to do it, unless you cheat by using consumable items.

A 1,000 point HP buff is the exact same end result for a fight as someone casting that amount of heal on you during the fight. A haste spell that allows your character to generate an extra 1,000 damage in a fight is the exact same end result as a player doing a 1,000 point damage spell during the fight. And as already discussed, a buff can be even stronger than a heal for doing solo challenges, because it allows for better pulling.

The way you continue ignore basic math and game mechanics is very sad.

I've never once even mentioned the word chess in this forum

I'm not surprised you're also incapable of understanding simple analogies. You tried to argue that grinding for gear in EQ is a high level skill. It's not. It's busywork. Games like Chess are something that require a high level skill to be competitive. Games like Smash Melee require high level skill. Games like GW/LoL/Starcraft require high level skill.

EQ requires low amounts of skill and those skills have nothing to do with the gear a person has. Gear is simply an artificial roadblock. You have NO special skills as a result of playing EQ and getting that gear. A million other people could do anything you can if they were given the character to use.

I HAVE killed the King with Avatar and 2h toggling the entire fight, multiple times

Then where are the hard numbers of the DPS, to determine the extent to which your character can fight a particular MOB or not? You've posted absolutely nothing and you still continue to ignore the impact of other procs and armor that your character doesn't have, which is the actual ceiling for the class.

What's the biggest self buffed monk kill anyway?

It's hard to know since the best geared Monks, aka having Shroud of Longevity + Fungi Staff, never recorded themselves and are now banned. But we can already calculate it all out anyway if someone wants to. Monks who still have Shroud of Longevity will need to try and see if they can find a Fungi Staff for sale if they want to reach absolute BIS gear.

And then after achieving BIS gear, the ceiling for a self-buffed Monk involves proccing Steal Strength on the MOB and then FD + heal up and re-engage.

Yes, the whole goal was to complete the kill without consumables, but that doesn't mean that the wiki should be changed

It exactly means the wiki needed to be changed. There are factually many different ways that players attempt challenges and the page needs to reflect ALL of those.

monks need outside buffs to be able to keep up with casters, maybe not all casters, but the ones capable of soloing anything significant.

The point of solo challenges is not "Monks should be given assistance to try and do things that Enchanters and Shaman can do completely solo". Why should Monks be privileged over Wizards, Clerics, Mages, Druids when they ALREADY can solo more encounters than those classes??

The reality of the game is simply that Enchanters and Shaman are the overall best at these things. But there are still encounters a Monk can do without outside help that Shaman aren't able to, thanks to Monks being able to FD pull.

The challenge page is not trying to equalize each class and make it possible for every class to be able to complete every challenge at the same tier. That's not even possible to begin with. The point of the challenge page is trying to see the best each class can do at each different tier.

The wiki will be reverted back, don't worry about that. Literally no one here agrees with your asinine assertion that having buffs disqualifies it from being considered a solo kill.

The wiki will not be reverted back and your behavior will not be tolerated. Everyone with a brain recognizes there needed to be more reflective tiers. You and DSM are the only people saying otherwise, because you're selfish and upset about being called out and proven wrong.

And what you continue to fail to understand is that the wiki page does not "disqualify" outside buffs from being used. The wiki provides many different TIERS of "solo kills" and "duo kills". It's a challenge page meant to serve everyone and allow many different challenges. The page is not trying to give a single definition of the word solo. Your broken brain and broken ego is simply unable to rectify the fact that this isn't about you.

Those ranks exist whether you want it or not and whether those kills are possible or not. I see it just like powerlifting. It's cool to see what a natural dude can do but it is also cool to see a juiced guy hit a 1000lbs deadlift. It's just done under different variables and it has to be acknowledged.

A very sensible example. There's a good reason why steroids are not allowed for Olympic competition. The druggies have their own "Enhanced Games" tier they get to compete in.

Skarne

07-08-2025, 06:26 PM

EQ requires low amounts of skill and those skills have nothing to do with the gear a person has. Gear is simply an artificial roadblock. You have NO special skills as a result of playing EQ and getting that gear. A million other people could do anything you can if they were given the character to use.

It's hard to know since the best geared Monks, aka having Shroud of Longevity + Fungi Staff, never recorded themselves and are now banned. But we can already calculate it all out anyway if someone wants to. Monks who still have Shroud of Longevity will need to try and see if they can find a Fungi Staff for sale if they want to reach absolute BIS gear.

It’s wild you don’t think EQ requires skill and that anybody can play the character Sscalez and just do what he did.

Also, wouldn’t you reach worn regen cap with the shroud alone? Why would that monk need a fungi staff in addition?

-edit, disregard- was unaware the fungi staff is a spell regen. That is sick.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-08-2025, 06:36 PM

It’s wild you don’t think EQ requires skill and that anybody can play the character Sscalez and just do what he did.

Also, wouldn’t you reach worn regen cap with the shroud alone? Why would that monk need a fungi staff in addition?

If you had a pre-nerf fungus staff you would get +15 spell regen instead of +10 from Dain Ring. Pre-nerf fungus staff is clickable by all classes. Fungi/fungus staff is spell regen, which stacks with Shroud's worn regen. But there are only a few pre-nerf fungus staffs on the server. Realistically nobody is going to get one. I've held a pre-nerf fungis staff once while helping someone xfer it.

Zuranthium's long posts aren't worth responding to. He just repeats the same lies and nonsense ad nauseam at this point. People can read the thread and figure out who's trolling. The deck is heavily stacked against Zuranthium.

Zuranthium claims to be a pro gamer. A "retired athlete" among gamers. He thinks he is better than everyone else, and is assuming some sort of "coaching" or "analyst" role to help us poor gamers who are noobs. Thus far, his greatest solo artist achievement appears to be killing a Cliff Golem on a Druid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqNfDrTpG_Q

That idiotic line again. NOBODY IS JEALOUS OF YOU. NOBODY IS OUT TO GET YOU. NOBODY IS OBLIGATED TO TREAT YOU LIKE A PRINCESS.

I have more experience with this game than you do and far more skill as a gamer. Have you ever won tournaments and actual money? Ever ranked high globally at an actual competitive thing? No, you haven't. I don't need to log on and do anything. I've already played more than enough EQ since 1999. It's not the role of a retired athlete to spend their time on the field. They move onto coaching, officiating, or professional analysis to impart their expertise.

The wiki will be fixed from his trolling.

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

Duik

07-08-2025, 07:21 PM

When we have one poster, lets call them BCB saying...
The way to keep a thread on-topic is to not engage with anyone going off-topic. And now I'll take my advice and leave you all to it. If you want to keep this thread on-topic I encourage you not to replay to this post.

Then, another poster, lets call them DSM says this...

I disagree. The issue with this mentality is posters like Zuranthium and Samoht will just flood the thread with bad information, as they already have.

This is why it has taken upwards of 75 pages to get to the (correct) conclusion of there are many tiers and many mobs and again many classes, that are arguably imbalanced (only from a solo challenge perspective) that make it almost impossible to equally rate an achievement over another classes.

The answer is Stryker. Kudos. Shammy/chanter/nec can do it too, just differently.
Congratulations, we've discovered we are all different.

Zuranthium

07-08-2025, 07:33 PM

-edit, disregard- was unaware the fungi staff is a spell regen. That is sick.

Yep, a very powerful soloing piece of equip.

It’s wild you don’t think EQ requires skill and that anybody can play the character Sscalez and just do what he did.

I said EQ requires low skill. If you don't understand this then you're unaware of what it takes to be competitive at countless other games.

Any semi-competitive gamer is capable of replicating these EQ solo challenges, given minimal time to acquaint themselves with the UI. There is no complex understanding of tactics/opponents required, no difficult decision making, and no difficult coordination or mechanical skill. You simply learn the pre-determined behaviors of a few NPC's and then do the 1 ideal thing during the fight, with relatively easy inputs.

Whereas in other games, it takes a ton of learning time and practice, and raw talent, in order to achieve the top levels. Few people can ever be a top chess player or a top fighting game player, no matter how hard they try. EQ has no such skill requirement.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-08-2025, 07:36 PM

Any semi-competitive gamer is capable of replicating these EQ solo challenges, given minimal time to acquaint themselves with the UI. There is no complex understanding of tactics/opponents required, no difficult decision making, and no difficult coordination or mechanical skill. You simply learn the pre-determined behaviors of a few NPC's and then do the 1 ideal thing during the fight, with relatively easy inputs.

Sounds like you should make a Fungi King video and show us how it's done. You still haven't.

This is why it has taken upwards of 75 pages

Indeed. This thread was flooded by Samoht and Zuranthium. Thank you for agreeing with my quote.

The answer is Stryker. Kudos.

Correct!

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

Duik

07-08-2025, 08:43 PM

Indeed. This thread was flooded by Samoht and Zuranthium. Thank you for agreeing with my quote.

Im not agreeing with you. We all have shit this thread up (im doing it right now!) bcbrown gave us all an exit strat.

Sadly we didnt all take it.
/tap out.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-08-2025, 08:55 PM

Im not agreeing with you. We all have shit this thread up (im doing it right now!) bcbrown gave us all an exit strat.

Sadly we didnt all take it.
/tap out.

An exit strategy wouldn't be needed if posters like Zuranthium and Samoht posted respectfully and on topic. Cause and effect. Do not troll/attack people, and the people being trolled/attacked will not post in defense. At least you are not trying to blame me for everything, and agree other posters including Zuranthium and Samoht have behaved poorly. Thank you!

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

Zuranthium

07-09-2025, 03:39 AM

You'll never guess who has over 250 posts in this thread and is trying to claim someone else flooded it.

Sounds like you should make a Fungi King video and show us how it's done.

It sounds like I shouldn't waste years of my life gearing another character on a dead end game, to do something that was solved long ago. It's not even possible to obtain BIS Monk equip right now, and the fight can already be calculated outside the game to determine if it's realistic or not.

Hopefully ripqueefko doesn't wander into the thread, it's the one time his "you don't got warder loot" trolling would be relevant. Someone should track down a BIS Monk on Green and see if they are interested in becoming the first recorded S+ Monk on spore king.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 09:39 AM

:cool:
You'll never guess who has over 250 posts in this thread and is trying to claim someone else flooded it.

Yourself and Samoht have 257 posts combined. Cause and effect. If you two didn't post those, there wouldn't be replies. If yourself and Samoht simply said "nice video!", instead of making posts trying to diminish OP, this thread would be like 5 pages right now.

It sounds like I shouldn't waste years of my life gearing another character on a dead end game, to do something that was solved long ago. It's not even possible to obtain BIS Monk equip right now, and the fight can already be calculated outside the game to determine if it's realistic or not.

Sounds like there is no point in you posting here then. You aren't going to play a game you think is easy and pointless, and OP clearly doesn't want your opinions. Go to another forum that appreciates your "retired (gaming) athlete" "coaching" and "analysis".

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

loramin

07-09-2025, 10:57 AM

You'll never guess who has over 250 posts in this thread and is trying to claim someone else flooded it.

Yourself and Samoht have 257 posts combined.

I left this dumpster fire awhile ago, but I just checked in an had to note this: when someone says you post a lot, saying "I post twice as much as you" (ie. as much as two other posters) is not an effective rebuttal.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 11:04 AM

I left this dumpster fire awhile ago, but I just checked in an had to note this: when someone says you post a lot, saying "I post twice as much as you" (ie. as much as two other posters) is not an effective rebuttal.

Loramin doesn't understand cause and effect or basic math apparently. Simply showing post count out of context is not an effective attack. If you look at the post history, I did not simply post 250 times in a row. I created 250 replies for 250 posts. One reply for one post.

The key word is "replies". A post from Samoht, Zuranthium, or yourself has to exist before a reply from myself comes. It is unfortunate that you believe you are entitled to attack other posters freely without rebuttal.

A wiki admin should know not to break forum rules and abuse their admin powers. I am still shocked by your behavior in this thread and over the past few weeks. Fix yourself first please. With power comes responsibility. You need to hold yourself to a higher standard than regular posters.

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 11:29 AM

The wiki will be fixed from his trolling.

Just in case anybody missed this nugget from all the DSM spam, I feel the need to point out his verification here that he does plan to continue to deface the wiki.

It's so sad that the community can discuss this and arrive at the conclusion that the SAC should be updated, but one person is going to continue to try to derail the efforts.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 11:35 AM

Just in case anybody missed this nugget from all the DSM spam, I feel the need to point out his verification here that he does plan to continue to deface the wiki.

It's so sad that the community can discuss this and arrive at the conclusion that the SAC should be updated, but one person is going to continue to try to derail the efforts.

Your wiki edits designed to troll OP by lowering his rank have been fixed:

Wiki has been updated with new rating for melees using raid buffs (https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge)

OP now deserves a B

Yeah, it moved him from a B- on the new scale to a B.

Zuranthium's same troll attempt to lower OP's rank by creating a new one above [S] will be fixed too.

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

loramin

07-09-2025, 11:36 AM

Samoht

07-09-2025, 11:36 AM

Zuranthium's same troll attempt to lower OP's rank by creating a new one above [S] will be fixed too.

I highly recommend that you refrain from further defacement of articles or impersonation of other posters on the wiki.

Can you imagine how lost you'll be in life once you are permanently banned from the wiki?

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 11:38 AM

I've been talking to people in this thread (from both sides), and I won't repeat everything I wrote, but I want to emphasize one point to everyone I haven't PMed.

When the lock on the page ends, I expect everyone who edits the wiki, whatever side they are on, to make a good faith effort to improve the page for everyone.

That means anyone simply trying to force their viewpoint ... whatever that viewpoint is ... will risk being sanctioned, the same way I'd sanction anyone for abusing the wiki (ie. editing it for a purpose other than making it better for everyone).

Let's hope you act impartially this time. You didn't last time. Perhaps another wiki admin needs to get involved.

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

loramin

07-09-2025, 11:42 AM

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

Not picking on DSM, since plenty of others have expressed similar (converse) opinions, but ... the wiki is not for deciding anything about anyone's solo. It makes for a very bad judge or jury, because that's not what it was intended to be (as the edit fight mess demonstrated).

It'd be great if the wiki provided a customizable framework for solo artistry that let anyone participate at whatever "level" they want. Honestly I suspect that'd be what's best, but if no one is willing to try and make such a page, then having several independent "solo scoring rubrics" would work also.

But the point is, the wiki should help people do their thing, not tell them what or how to do it (especially not according to any one person's opinion).

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 11:45 AM

Not picking on DSM, since plenty of others have expressed similar (converse) opinions, but ... the wiki is not for deciding anything about anyone's solo. It makes for a very bad judge or jury, because that's not what it was intended to be (as the edit fight mess demonstrated).

It'd be great if the wiki provided a customizable framework for solo artistry that let anyone participate at whatever "level" they want. Honestly I suspect that'd be what's best, but if no one is willing to try and make such a page, then having several independent "solo scoring rubrics" would work also.

But the point is, the wiki should help people do their thing, not tell them what or how to do it.

Other posters are free to make their own solo challenge wiki pages. Clearly a number of posters, including myself, like the existing solo artist challenge page. Editing the existing wiki page due to this specific thread to lower OP's ranking is not productive. If that is set as the standard, the rankings become useless, as does the wiki page.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 11:49 AM

Other posters are free to make their own solo challenge wiki pages. Clearly a number of posters, including myself, like the existing solo artist challenge page. Editing the existing wiki page due to this specific thread to lower OP's ranking is not productive. If that is set as the standard, the rankings become useless, as does the wiki page.

There's no need to fork the existing page when improvements are possible. It's still unclear why you're so insistent on the bad version from a terrible contributor remain the official version.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 11:51 AM

There's no need to fork the existing page when improvements are possible. It's still unclear why you're so insistent on the bad version from a terrible contributor remain the official version.

It's unclear why you won't accept a fork. The wiki is big enough for both pages. Not everyone agrees with your opinions on the existing wiki page.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 11:56 AM

It's unclear why you won't accept a fork. The wiki is big enough for both pages. Not everyone agrees with your opinions on the existing wiki page.

No there's not. There's just you holding out for some reason. I know that it's not because you're Lorean on the next alt. Lorean was an an idiot savant. You're just an idiot.

Why can't you let it go? You have no apparent connection to the page.

It's due for an update.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 12:00 PM

Samoht

07-09-2025, 12:11 PM

Why can't you just let it go an accept a fork? I can keep turning this back around on you. The wiki can support both pages. You can promote your page, and we'll see who wins.

Unnecessary forking will unnecessarily divide the subject into multiple unnecessary groups.

This is an example of something where one page is sufficient. That's the best part about having a wiki is that pages can be changed with community contribution. You don't just copy/paste a forum post that's more than 10 years old and lock it in. Especially long after the original creator has exited the project.

The page will be updated. You don't get to be the one who decides it won't. You just don't hold that kind of pull here.

But you know what? I hope you do continue to deface the improvements. I hope you do continue to impersonate other posters by making new pages in their name and then continue to rage edit any improvement they make to those pages.

Maybe your next punishment will make it stick. Maybe getting banned from the wiki will finally be enough to make you take a step back. Best case scenario is that you do and then you stop shitting up every thread in the forums, too.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 12:16 PM

Unnecessary forking will unnecessarily divide the subject into multiple unnecessary groups.

This is an example of something where one page is sufficient. That's the best part about having a wiki is that pages can be changed with community contribution. You don't just copy/paste a forum post that's more than 10 years old and lock it in. Especially long after the original creator has exited the project.

The page will be updated. You don't get to be the one who decides it won't. You just don't hold that kind of pull here.

But you know what? I hope you do continue to deface the improvements. I hope you do continue to impersonate other posters by making new pages in their name and then continue to rage edit any improvement they make to those pages.

Maybe your next punishment will make it stick. Maybe getting banned from the wiki will finally be enough to make you take a step back. Best case scenario is that you do and then you stop shitting up every thread in the forums, too.

Making a new wiki page is the obvious solution. You clearly are unable to edit that wiki page objectively, as this thread shows. You edited the ranks to troll OP, and you think the author is an idiot.

That page has been around for years, and it's authors aren't here to defend themselves. Leave it as is and make your own. You are not the one who gets to unilaterally decide the wiki page is bad due to your biased opinions.

Crede

07-09-2025, 12:16 PM

No there's not. There's just you holding out for some reason. I know that it's not because you're Lorean on the next alt. Lorean was an an idiot savant. You're just an idiot.

Why can't you let it go? You have no apparent connection to the page.

It's due for an update.

It's the same reason DSM brought in a 5th pocket cleric alt to the 4 man caster thread to support his shaman bias. As we can see on these forums people constantly move the goalposts and stretch the definition of any word to support their claims because they can't stand to be proved incorrect on an argument they are already all in on.

Now somehow in this thread we consider outside buffs the highest tier simply because someone in Kunark in 2012 decided melee needed to compete with enchanters/shamans to win which is absolutely assnonine.

This shouldn't even be called Solo Artist Challenge specifically as we have a chance for Duo's to shine and it shouldn't just be limited to solo/duo. But as others have mentioned most people doing stuff like this don't actually post videos most likely because they don't want to give away their game mechanic knowledge(which is the only edge you really need in this game, not "skill" like people keep saying lol try getting GM in SC2 if you want to talk about real e sport skill).

Either way can't wait for the new wiki updates to support the community!

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 12:19 PM

It's the same reason DSM brought in a 5th pocket cleric alt to the 4 man caster thread to support his shaman bias. As we can see on these forums people constantly move the goalposts and stretch the definition of any word to support their claims because they can't stand to be proved incorrect on an argument they are already all in on.

Now somehow in this thread we consider outside buffs the highest tier simply because someone in Kunark in 2012 decided melee needed to compete with enchanters/shamans to win which is absolutely assnonine.

This shouldn't even be called Solo Artist Challenge specifically as we have a chance for Duo's to shine and it shouldn't just be limited to solo/duo. But as others have mentioned most people doing stuff like this don't actually post videos most likely because they don't want to give away their game mechanic knowledge(which is the only edge you really need in this game, not "skill" like people keep saying lol try getting GM in SC2 if you want to talk about real e sport skill).

Either way can't wait for the new wiki updates to support the community!

Making silly comments because you are unhappy about losing a debate years ago is silly. You still can't let it go.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3610378&postcount=6

Level a cleric and have people log it in as needed. I have an epic cleric that’s been 54 since 2014 and he has done countless rezzes. Just a phenomenal class that everyone should have at least one of.

You are 100% on board with pocket clerics. You just didn't want to lose the debate, so you keep doubling down against your own stated views.

Forking the wiki page is the answer. I look forward to your way better wiki page!

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 12:29 PM

Making silly comments because you are unhappy about losing a debate years ago is silly. You still can't let it go.

You are 100% on board with pocket clerics. You just didn't want to lose the debate.
Forking the wiki page is the answer. I look forward to your way better wiki page!

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

Did you just endorse openly boxing and then ninja edit the post before it could be quoted?

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 12:32 PM

Did you just endorse openly boxing and then ninja edit the post before it could be quoted?

I won't even pretend to understand what you are referring to. You can check my edits via the link at the bottom of the post and quote whatever you think I said. I just edited the post to show Crede's hypocrisy. He has been whining about me suggesting the use of pocket clerics for years, but he fully supports pocket clerics, and has had one since 2014.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3610378&postcount=6

But this is off topic.

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 12:34 PM

I won't even pretend to understand what you are referring to. You can check my edits via the link at the bottom of the post and quote whatever you think I said. I just edited the post to show Crede's hypocrisy. He has been whining about me suggesting the use of pocket clerics for years, but he fully supports pockwt clerics, and has had one since 2014.

The first time I read it, it said something about everybody using a pocket cleric, so you were justifying doing it yourself.

Oh, my.

That's a new level of obsession, even for you.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 12:36 PM

The first time I read it, it said something about everybody using a pocket cleric, so you were justifying doing it yourself.

Oh, my.

That's a new level of obsession, even for you.

You do know what a pocket cleric is, right? It's the same thing as a guild bot, which every guild has. You don't box pocket clerics or guild bots. I never said you should box pocket clerics or guild bots, and I've never endorsed boxing.

I don't have a pocket cleric by the way. Crede does though:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3610378&postcount=6

Level a cleric and have people log it in as needed. I have an epic cleric that’s been 54 since 2014 and he has done countless rezzes. Just a phenomenal class that everyone should have at least one of.

Crede is a hypocrite who has had a pocket cleric since 2014, but he keeps arguing a static group of four players cannot use one. It is silly.

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

Ripqozko

07-09-2025, 12:45 PM

another dsm thread, no surprise to anyone.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 12:47 PM

another dsm thread, no surprise to anyone.

Another thread trolled by posters like Zuranthium and Samoht is what you mean. "DSM thread" is just your way of saying you support threads being trolled, so you blame the other posters like myself who are trying to stop the trolling.

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 12:48 PM

You do know what a pocket cleric is, right? It's the same thing as a guild bot, which every guild has. You don't box pocket clerics. I never said that.

So just FYI, the universal meaning of "pocket healer" does not match the twisted definition you just provided. You've basically described a community bot. Those are not the same thing. A pocket healer would imply that they are following you around, healing only you. It's the type of thing you'll commonly see on red or during PLs. It is inherently a duo but is often suspiciously close to multiboxing. GMs will make people prove that the characters are driven by separate entities.

I don't have a pocket cleric by the way. Crede does though.

Using your definition of pocket healer, you seem to be implying that having a cleric alt is some kind of crime now? If I saw a player with a cleric only healing them, it would be kind of funny to me, both in the humorous and suspicious manner. I doubt this person is actually guilty of using a pocket healer, though.

AI Overview
TF2 Dictionary — TF2 Lingo: “pocketing / pocket medics”
In video games, a "pocket healer" refers to a support character who primarily focuses their healing and support abilities on a single, specific teammate, often a high-damage dealer, rather than distributing their healing more broadly across the team. This strategy aims to make that single teammate exceptionally powerful and difficult to eliminate, creating a strong offensive or defensive duo.

Ripqozko

07-09-2025, 12:49 PM

i wish dsm put this much effort into raiding he might be alright then.

**RAID ATTENDANCE Deathssilkymist#0**```md
+ Last Week: 0/0 (0%)
+ Last Month: 0/318 (0%)
+ Last 3 Months: 0/1153 (0%)
+ Life: 7/1597 (0%)
```

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 12:53 PM

So just FYI, the universal meaning of "pocket healer" does not match the twisted definition you just provided. You've basically described a community bot. Those are not the same thing. A pocket healer would imply that they are following you around, healing only you. It's the type of thing you'll commonly see on red or during PLs. It is inherently a duo but is often suspiciously close to multiboxing. GMs will make people prove that the characters are driven by separate entities.

Using your definition of pocket healer, you seem to be implying that having a cleric alt is some kind of crime now? If I saw a player with a cleric only healing them, it would be kind of funny to me, both in the humorous and suspicious manner. I doubt this person is actually guilty of using a pocket healer, though.

AI Overview
TF2 Dictionary — TF2 Lingo: “pocketing / pocket medics”
In video games, a "pocket healer" refers to a support character who primarily focuses their healing and support abilities on a single, specific teammate, often a high-damage dealer, rather than distributing their healing more broadly across the team. This strategy aims to make that single teammate exceptionally powerful and difficult to eliminate, creating a strong offensive or defensive duo.

You have no evidence that my definition of pocket cleric matches yours. You are just lying again. My definition of pocket cleric is the same as a guild bot. Another player logs into that account and uses the Cleric.

No, I do not box. I have never boxed. I have never endorsed boxing. You can check the post history. I do not even have a pocket cleric. My highest level cleric is 24, and it doesn't have it's own unique account.

This is such a bad troll.

i wish dsm put this much effort into raiding he might be alright then.

**RAID ATTENDANCE Deathssilkymist#0**```md
+ Last Week: 0/0 (0%)
+ Last Month: 0/318 (0%)
+ Last 3 Months: 0/1153 (0%)
+ Life: 7/1597 (0%)
```

At least you are not attacking your own guild this time lol.

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 12:57 PM

iJTAbYGrYDc

Samoht

07-09-2025, 12:57 PM

My definition of pocket cleric is the same as a guild bot.

Yeah, but they're not, tho. You are mistaken.

And I've cited the google definition with my original post, which you've quoted.

You're using this term incorrectly. I doubt you're going to do anything to fix your vocabulary. This will be my last post on the subject as you make it perfectly clear that you would rather be wrong about anything than accept outside help.

That's probably why you're not seeing a psychiatrist even though you clearly need one.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 12:59 PM

Yeah, but they're not, tho. You are mistaken.

And I've cited the google definition with my original post, which you've quoted.

You're using this term incorrectly. I doubt you're going to do anything to fix your vocabulary. This will be my last post on the subject as you make it perfectly clear that you would rather be wrong about anything than accept outside help.

That's probably why you're not seeing a psychiatrist even though you clearly need one.

As you can see, Samoht was incorrect about his accusations about me. At least he has agreed to stop this off-topic nonsense.

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

bcbrown

07-09-2025, 01:00 PM

So just FYI, the universal meaning of "pocket healer" does not match the twisted definition you just provided.

You might find the thread Crede and DSM are talking about interesting, or at least "interesting". It's like this one but 5 times longer: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=406923

I don't think the pocket cleric stuff started until two or three hundred pages in.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 01:02 PM

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 01:05 PM

You might find the thread Crede and DSM are talking about interesting, or at least "interesting". It's like this one but 5 times longer: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=406923

I don't think the pocket cleric stuff started until two or three hundred pages in.

It's a good thread to show who the trolls are. There are hundreds if not 1000+ posts that are just trolls, insults, and attacks on me because some posters hate being disagreed with. Crede would rather deny pocket clerics (guild bots) are used (even though he's had one since 2014) than admit he was wrong. But that is off topic.

He derailed that one starting on page 1. My goodness.

You mean you derailed this thread on page 1:

Hmm. Doesn't appear to be a solo kill. Player had a shaman, cleric, and enchanter out of group buffing them.

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

Crede

07-09-2025, 01:09 PM

Crede would rather deny pocket clerics (guild bots) are used (even though he's had one since 2014) than admit he was wrong.

What evidence you do you have where I denied pocket clerics are used or their relevance? You were the one that decided to bring in a 5th cleric in a 4 man thread. You aren't fooling anybody, lol.

It's sad you have to pull in another thread to try to somehow prove I am wrong. It's a good thing the community as a whole doesn't really listen to you. Perhaps if you spent more time actually playing the game(which you claim you don't have time for) instead of of spending countless hours on the forums you might actually become somewhat credible.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 01:11 PM

You might find the thread Crede and DSM are talking about interesting, or at least "interesting". It's like this one but 5 times longer: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=406923

I don't think the pocket cleric stuff started until two or three hundred pages in.

I reviewed some of this. It's a lot worse than I could have ever imagined. Someone objectively disagreed with DSM and it just went... no where... fast. DSM has some strange requirement to reply to every single post and to get the last word. He's not an intelligent poster and does not propose any sort of new or innovative ideas; he just does. not. stop.

I knew it was bad, but he dragged that out for 3 years. THREE. YEARS. YALL.

This is embarrassing. I know it's autism, but that's hardly an excuse for this level of lack of self-awareness. This is bad. I feel like the only way we could help him is to ignore him.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 01:13 PM

What evidence you do you have where I denied pocket clerics are used or their relevance? You were the one that decided to bring in a 5th cleric in a 4 man thread. You aren't fooling anybody, lol.

It's sad you have to pull in another thread to try to somehow prove I am wrong. It's a good thing the community as a whole doesn't really listen to you. Perhaps if you spent more time actually playing the game(which you claim you don't have time for) instead of of spending countless hours on the forums you might actually become somewhat credible.

You are the one that brought up the other thread first. What a silly person you are.

Your argument is that a static group of four players is incapable of having one of those four players log off of their current character and log into a cleric alt. It is the silliest argument even, as guilds do this all the time. Can the static group of four players use a guild bot if they make a new guild where they are the only four members?

Crede

07-09-2025, 01:13 PM

He derailed that one starting on page 1. My goodness.

I'll sum it up for you if you don't want to read hundreds of pages..

DSM claims shamans can keep up with mage dps by root rotting adds off to the side, and also brought in a 5th cleric in a 4 man optimal group thread. Yet he posted a video of his shaman doing about 5 dps in a group.

Literally moved every goalpost possible to get his shaman bias belonging in a 4 man caster group, it was typical nonsense.

loramin

07-09-2025, 01:14 PM

Other posters are free to make their own solo challenge wiki pages. Clearly a number of posters, including myself, like the existing solo artist challenge page.

Right, but that sounds like what's best for a bunch of whiny forum posters that each feel the need to force their opinion on everyone else. Some want the existing page to stay the same, some want something different (but want their version on the same place as everyone else's).

What page(s) would be best for the community?

Samoht

07-09-2025, 01:17 PM

I'll sum it up for you if you don't want to read hundreds of pages..

DSM claims shamans can keep up with mage dps by root rotting adds off to the side, and also brought in a 5th cleric in a 4 man optimal group thread. Yet he posted a video of his shaman doing about 5 dps in a group.

Literally moved every goalpost possible to get his shaman bias belonging in a 4 man caster group, it was typical nonsense.

Yeah, continuing to push shaman after everybody - literally EVERYBODY - disagreed with him was just bias. Shaman are terrible in groups unless there are warriors, monks, and/or rogues included. Enchanter is going to be vastly superior in a caster only group.

It's so odd that he decided to add a fifth member and make it a cleric as opposed to a second shaman. That's so offbrand, even for DSM.

Crede

07-09-2025, 01:23 PM

Yeah, continuing to push shaman after everybody - literally EVERYBODY - disagreed with him was just bias. Shaman are terrible in groups unless there are warriors, monks, and/or rogues included. Enchanter is going to be vastly superior in a caster only group.

It's so odd that he decided to add a fifth member and make it a cleric as opposed to a second shaman. That's so offbrand, even for DSM.

Yea I think at one point he also argued shamans are better for enchanters than clerics but resorted to the pocket cleric when he realized he didn't have an argument for rez.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 01:27 PM

Yea I think at one point he also argued shamans are better for enchanters than clerics but resorted to the pocket cleric when he realized he didn't have an argument for rez.

Yeah, in shaman/enc duo, shaman brings redundancy, bad pets, and heals worse than a cleric.

I'd rather have a druid TBH. At least the druid can port, give POTG, charm, and DS the pet.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 01:28 PM

Crede can keep incorrectly summarizing a three year old thread if he wishes. People can read it if they want the truth.

He has to go off topic as he can't even win an argument in this thread.

It is just sad that after multiple years he still claims a static group of four players cannot log into a pocket cleric account. He has had a pocket cleric since 2014. If the static group of four players was a guild with just those four players, the pocket cleric would be a guid bot. All guilds use guild bots.

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 01:33 PM

Right, but that sounds like what's best for a bunch of whiny forum posters that each feel the need to force their opinion on everyone else.

What page(s) would be best for the community?

For the two posters (Zuranthium and Samoht) who have a different idea of what a solo challenge is to make their own solo challenge. It's really that simple.

I am literally just advocating for the solo artist page to remain as-is before Zuranthium and Samoht's edits. Neither side gets their changes. I haven't proposed any changes.

This is the fairest solution. Since both parties cannot agree, the wiki page does not change.

Crede

07-09-2025, 01:34 PM

It is just sad that after multiple years he still claims a static group of four players cannot log into a pocket cleric account. He has had a pocket cleric since 2014. If the static group of four players was a guild with just those four players, the pocket cleric would be a guid bot. All guilds use guild bots.

The official definition of static is "lacking in movement, action, or change, especially in a way viewed as undesirable or uninteresting".

Why would a static caster group of 4 care to make a change to log on a cleric when they could simply have them in their own group as clerics are more desirable than shamans to enchanters in every way possible.

Not only are you trying to change the definition of static, but you are just making this group even more inefficient by trying to continuously bring in a shaman. If that thread had said ideal 4 man group + pocket char, then you may be onto something there as you could probably just pocket the shaman for outside buffs if so desired(I think a pocket mage would still be preferred). But unfortunately for your sake it didn't, and you only continue to look more pathetic the more you spread lies about it.

I can't wait to see this new wiki update reflecting the proper feelings of the community and the dated one moved into a Kunark archive somewhere.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 01:35 PM

So wait, what was his fourth character then? Since he refused to cut the shaman for the mage/necro, he cut the cleric instead?

Crede

07-09-2025, 01:37 PM

Yeah, in shaman/enc duo, shaman brings redundancy, bad pets, and heals worse than a cleric.

I'd rather have a druid TBH. At least the druid can port, give POTG, charm, and DS the pet.

Exactly. it was a mess. But to no surprise nobody was actually convinced besides DSM that a shaman actually belonged in that static group.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 01:37 PM

The official definition of static is "lacking in movement, action, or change, especially in a way viewed as undesirable or uninteresting".

Why would a static caster group of 4 care to make a change to log on a cleric when they could simply have them in their own group as clerics are more desirable than shamans to enchanters in every way possible.

Not only are you trying to change the definition of static, but you are just making this group even more inefficient by trying to continuously bring in a shaman. If that thread had said ideal 4 man group + pocket char, then you may be onto something there. But unfortunately for your sake it didn't, and you only continue to look more pathetic the more you spread lies about it.

I can't wait to see this new wiki update reflecting the proper feelings of the community and the dated one moved into a Kunark archive somewhere.

Crede is claiming a guild with four members in it is not allowed to have guild bots. I disagree with this idea.

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

loramin

07-09-2025, 01:48 PM

For the two posters (Zuranthium and Samoht) who have a different idea of what a solo challenge is to make their own solo challenge. It's really that simple

But it's not just two posters! It's obvious: there are more soloers out there than the five or so people participating in this thread.

Let's say someone drives to Zura and Samo's house tonight and murders them: will that conclusively settle the "right" way to solo? I guarantee you it will not, and in a week, a month, or a year someone will disagree with you again.

My point is, there is no official way to solo, and there never will be. For this reason, the wiki will never be in the business of deciding the "right way" to solo. You (and everyone else in this thread) need to accept that fact.

Thus:

I am literally just advocating for the solo artist page to remain as-is before Zuranthium and Samoht's edits. Neither side gets their changes. I haven't proposed any changes.

This is the fairest solution. Since both parties cannot agree, the wiki page does not change.

is not the best solution, because it's still picking a side. If the wiki is going to have an "official" Solo Artist Challenge page, then that page needs to be for all solo artists.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 01:51 PM

But it's not just two posters!

There are more people that have agreed with DSM in this thread, and just like 3 of the same people denying that obvious truth over and over.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 01:52 PM

But it's not just two posters! It's obvious: there are more soloers out there than the five or so people participating in this thread.

Let's say someone drives to Zura and Samo's house tonight and murders them: will that conclusively settle the "right" way to solo? I guarantee you it will not, and in a week, a month, or a year someone will disagree with you again.

My point is, there is no official way to solo, and there never will be. For this reason, the wiki will never be in the business of deciding the "right way" to solo. You (and everyone else in this thread) need to accept that fact.

Thus:

is not the best solution, because it's still picking a side. If the wiki is going to have an "official" Solo Artist Challenge page, then that page needs to be for all solo artists.

No Loramin, it is not picking a side. As far as I know nobody ever claimed that was the official solo challenge page for P99. I didn't. Yourself and OP brought up the page before i did lol. That is why people can make their own and use it.

If two children are arguing over a toy, you take the toy away. That is not picking a side, as neither child gets to play with the toy. It doesn't matter if you think one child somehow got an advantage over the other by having both children losing the toy.

Giving both children their own toys does solve the issue if they cannot share.

Also I have to say your examples are always weird. You've gone from racism to car theft to murder lol.

loramin

07-09-2025, 01:56 PM

You're pretending the original page was "official". As the creator of that page, I can assure you it was wasn't. If you read the original version of the page (https://wiki.project1999.com/index.php?title=Solo_Artist_Challenge&diff=459505&oldid=168086), it says as much:

The original Solo Artist Challenge was started in this forum thread by Loraen, but a new version which incorporates Velious is now being worked on by players in the forums.

To serve as a basis for this, I have included the original challenge below:

I just went with Loraen's version in the hope of creating a starting point for others to improve. Sadly, the forum thread I referenced went nowhere, and then instead of the page being improved, we got a forum/wiki fight.

But again, the wiki is not for anyone to enforce their playstyle on anyone else. It's to benefit the community, and I still believe a solo artist challenge page can do that ... as long as people start being cooperative and constructive instead of fighting.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 02:00 PM

As the creator of that page

Oh, shit. I didn't look that far back in the history, but that pretty much settles it. DSM does not get to dictate to anybody what they do with their own page. Looks like DSM needs to create his own fork of the SAC now...

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:01 PM

You're pretending the original page was "official". As the creator of that page, I can assure you it was wasn't. If you read the original version of the page (https://wiki.project1999.com/index.php?title=Solo_Artist_Challenge&diff=459505&oldid=168086), it says as much:

I just started with Loraen's version in the hope of creating a starting point for others to improve. Sadly, the forum thread I referenced went nowhere, and then instead of the page being improved, we got a forum/wiki fight.

But again, the wiki is not for anyone to enforce their playstyle on anyone else. It's to benefit the community, and I still believe a solo artist challenge page can do that ... as long as people start being cooperative and constructive instead of fighting.

I never said that the original page was official Loramin. You can literally check the post history.

Yourself and OP brought up the page first before I did lol. OP seems to be going off of that page for his video. He can correct me if I am wrong. Zuranthium and Samoht edited the wiki to change OP's rank to be lower.

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:02 PM

Multiple people (yourself included) edited it to enforce their viewpoint. All of them (including you) were wrong to do so. Again, the wiki does not have many rules ... but "don't be an asshole, edit the wiki to make it better for everyone" is one of the rare golden ones it absolutely does have.

Now the page had an invitation to edit it, so I didn't apply wiki justice to anyone for editing it ... but now that I've been 100% clear with everyone involved, I will apply wiki penalties to anyone who edits ANY page for their own benefit instead of the community's.

(And I just wasted many hours of my life cleaning up thousands of spam posts from someone who disagreed ... don't test me.)

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:02 PM

Oh, shit. I didn't look that far back in the history, but that pretty much settles it. DSM does not get to dictate to anybody what they do with their own page. Looks like DSM needs to create his own fork of the SAC now...

To be clear, it's not "my" page, or your's, or anyone else's. That's not how a wiki works: everything in it (except Magelo's and guides with names in them) is "owned" by everyone.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:03 PM

Samoht

07-09-2025, 02:04 PM

I did not add anything.

You never do...

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:04 PM

I'm saying you were both wrong. Period, full stop.

They edited the wiki with their opinions, without getting consensus from the community or trying to make those edits work for the community. You just blindly undid their edits, instead of trying to incorporate them into the page in a way that works for both of you.

Again, the right way to edit the wiki is to think "what would be good for everyone reading this?" and make that change. No one involved did that, so you all failed.

Crede

07-09-2025, 02:05 PM

So wait, what was his fourth character then? Since he refused to cut the shaman for the mage/necro, he cut the cleric instead?

It's hard to say, as he continuously moved the goalpost and did a TON of rogue edits(still does), like every post he was editing multiple times and by the time you responded to it it was a completely different post than the original one he provided.

I believe he started with Shaman Enchanter Enchanter Cleric. Then when people just said 3x enc + cleric or 2x enc/cleric/wiz for mobility, I think that might have been when he swapped in the shaman for the cleric as a last ditch effort.

Would love to see an AI summary of that thread, lol.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:06 PM

I'm saying you were both wrong. Period, full stop.

They edited the wiki with their opinions, without getting consensus from the community or trying to make those edits work for the community. You just blindly undid their edits, instead of trying to incorporate them into the page in a way that works for both of you.

Do you honestly believe Samoht and Zuranthium added those changes in good faith? Should they be left in there?

It wasn't blind, the evidence is in this thread that they are trolling OP.

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:08 PM

Do you honestly believe Samoht and Zuranthium added those changes in good faith?

No I don't. I don't believe your reverted them in good faith either though: I think you both just wanted to be right, and used the wiki as a pawn in your fight.

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:10 PM

Imagine the alternative: what if, instead of reverting, you'd changed the page to give soloers the option of whether they wanted to consider potions (or whatever else) to be ok or not, at their discretion?

Both of you could have had your ideas on the same page, and everyone would have benefited. That's what I'm looking for when the lock ends.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:10 PM

No I don't. I don't believe your reverted them in good faith either though: I think you both just wanted to be right, and used the wiki as a pawn in your fight.

I didn't start editing the wiki first Loramin. Samoht did. The post history shows that. He created a new score just so OP could get a [B] instead of an [S].

I never would have touched the wiki if he didn't use it as his pawn. As usual, you seem to support trolls instead of punishing them.

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:11 PM

Christ, you sound like a five year old child. "Mom, he hit me first!"

Accept it: you were both wrong. It's not a big deal, just try to be better next time.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 02:11 PM

The solo artists challenge was brought up in this thread. I make now my case that changes are needed for clarification on overlapping tiers as well as outdated rules from the pre-Velious time frame.

I do not believe anybody is going to have any thoughtful or objective disagreement, but, just in case:

I fully expect a literal tidal wave of dissenting responses from DSM

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:12 PM

Christ, you sound like a five year old child. "Mom, he hit me first!"

Yes Loramin, if you punch somebody in the face first, you were wrong, and should be punished. Punishing the person who got punched doesn't make sense.

So do you think the changes that were clearly trolling OP should be left on the wiki?

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:14 PM

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:15 PM

Yes Loramin, if you punch somebody in the face first, you were wrong, and should be punished. Punishing the person who got punched doesn't make sense.

So do you think the changes that were clearly trolling OP should be left on the wiki?

I didn't punish anyone for editing that page, as I already made clear (it'd have been unfair to do so, since it explicitly asked people to edit it).

But you do understand that the lock was temporary (and only for a week), correct?

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:17 PM

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:20 PM

So you agree then that the page should be reverted? No community poll was done for Zuranthium or Samoht's edits of the rankings/tiers/whatever you want to call them.

No, we do not agree. The goal of the wiki is not to lock pages to content last written in 2016! Let's not forget, Loraen's challenge didn't even have Velious mobs.

The goal of the wiki is to improve over time, until any particular page is as useful as it can be. I don't think anyone would argue the solo artist page is as useful as it can be, so it should be edited ... just not in a way that picks sides.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:22 PM

No, we do not. The goal of the wiki is not to lock pages to content last written in 2016! Let's not forget, Loraen's challenge didn't even have Velious mobs.

The goal of the wiki is to improve over time, until any particular page is as useful as it can be. I don't think anyone would argue the solo artist page is as useful as it can be, so it should be edited ... just not in a way that picks sides.

You are picking Zuranthium and Samohts side by leaving in their changes. How can you not see that? Reverting the page back to it's original state is the only impartial solution.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 02:22 PM

I don't think DSM has any argument for why it shouldn't be changed other than he doesn't want to lose this thread.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:23 PM

I don't think DSM has any argument for why it shouldn't be changed other than he doesn't want to lose this thread.

My argument is that changes to the wiki done to troll a specific user in a specific thread should be reverted. It's that simple. It doesn't matter who wins or loses. You changed the ranking system to change OP's rank to be lower.

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:24 PM

It's a week-long lock! I guarantee you, no one except the losers in this thread have even looked at that page during that entire week!

Ok, maybe there might have been was one random stranger who looked at it during that time, but you have to remember: there is no link to that page on the front page of the site! In fact, I don't think there are any links anywhere in the entire wiki.

This is not some critical page people are checking daily. It's a vanity project that people have to go looking for, and having it sitting with a few edits that bother you for a week won't change that.

Once the lock is up, you or anyone else can make it better ... as long as you do so for everyone.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:26 PM

It's a week-long lock! I guarantee you, no one except the losers in this thread have even looked at that page during that entire week!

Ok, maybe there might have been was one random stranger who looked at it during that time, but you have to remember: there is no link to that page on the front page of the site! In fact, I don't think there are any links anywhere in the entire wiki.

This is not some critical page people are checking daily. It's a vanity project that people have to go looking for, and it sitting with a few edits that bother you for a week won't change that.

It sounds like you will be reverting the changes then to be impartial once the week lock is up. That is the correct solution.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 02:26 PM

My argument is that changes to the wiki done to troll a specific user in a specific thread should be reverted. It's that simple. It doesn't matter who wins or loses. You changed the ranking system to change OP's rank to be lower.

But now that the glaring flaws in the SAC have come up, they need to be fixed, right? Sometimes you have to put bitterness aside for the sake of progress.

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:27 PM

But now that the glaring flaws in the SAC have come up, they need to be fixed, right? Sometimes you have to put bitterness aside for the sake of progress.

One can only hope someone will do that when the page unlocks :)

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:28 PM

It sounds like you will be reverting the changes then to be impartial once the week lock is up. That is the correct solution.

You have (willfully?) bad reading comprehension.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:28 PM

But now that the glaring flaws in the SAC have come up, they need to be fixed, right? Sometimes you have to put bitterness aside for the sake of progress.

If the community wants to change it, you can make a new thread and a poll. You do not get to unilaterally decide.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:29 PM

You have (willfully?) bad reading comprehension.

I do not. You keep claiming to be impartial, while taking Samoht and Zuranthium's side by leaving their changes in.

Either you are impartial or you are not.

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:29 PM

If the community wants to change it, you can make a new thread and a poll. You do not get to unilaterally decide.

Again, that's not how the wiki works. A poll is never required to edit a page ... as long as you follow the golden rule.

What's that rule again? You have to genuinely be trying to make the page better for everyone. That is the only thing required to edit the wiki.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 02:30 PM

You do not get to unilaterally decide.

But you do? And in what way is it unilaterally? I had nothing to do with the version of the page up now. That sounds multilateral to me..

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 02:30 PM

Samoht

07-09-2025, 02:31 PM

Either you are impartial or you are not.

People can be impartial and still disagree with you. It's actually quite easy because most people on these forums disagree with you. It's probably harder to find somebody who is impartial and agrees with you.

bcbrown

07-09-2025, 02:31 PM

I think the tiers are inherently problematic. I'm not saying the page can't have them, but I think they're where the fights come from, because person A thinks this detail (outside buffs, power clickys, potions, etc.) shouldn't count or should "lower the tier" somehow, and person B doesn't, or thinks it should lower the tier by less.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. It's not really obvious how to order the various modifiers like "no outside buffs" or "no consumables". There's no real way to compare kills across the various classes, as something that's easy for one class might be prohibitively hard for another class.

Saying melee can get buffs but casters can't at the same "tier" doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. But I empathize with Stryker feeling like it's unfair to say this kill isn't the highest tier because of the buffs.

I think the solution is along the lines of having a single broad classification of "Solo" along with a framework for defining the various possible further restrictions. Then various solo artists can post their kill along with what restrictions they followed, and the readers can come to their own conclusions about what they think is most impressive.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 02:32 PM

I agree about the golden rule. So you think Samoht and Zuranthium did not troll the wiki to lower OP's score, even after you said they were wrong?

4. A troll edited the wiki to win an argument ITT

As usual, DSM is right, this indeed did happen.

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:32 PM

Here's what happened:

1. Some innocent person posted a video of some gameplay they were proud of.
2. Trolls insulted him.
3. A troll defended him.
4. Trolls from both sides edited the wiki to win an argument ITT
5. Loramin suspended DSM (but not for this page ... for creating a page in someone else's name, when they clearly didn't want it ... eight times)

FTFY

Samoht

07-09-2025, 02:33 PM

As usual, DSM is right, this indeed did happen.

You know, at first I thought your posts were supposed to be ironic or even endearing to a degree, but I'm starting to think you actually might believe the bullshit you're posting.

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:35 PM

Again, you're like a five-year-old child. "Mom, Bob got more ice cream a week ago, I should get more now".

The past is done, the page is locked. Either make it better when it unlocks, or move on.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:35 PM

Again, that's not how the wiki works. A poll is never required to edit a page ... as long as you follow the golden rule.

What's that rule again? You have to genuinely be trying to make the page better for everyone. That is the only thing required to edit the wiki.

I agree about the golden rule. So you think Samoht and Zuranthium did not troll the wiki to lower OP's score, even after you said they were wrong?

You claim to be impartial, but you won't answer this.

If they did troll the wiki, why leave the changes in?

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 02:36 PM

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 02:36 PM

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DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:36 PM

Here's what happened:

1. Some innocent person posted a video of some gameplay they were proud of.
2. Trolls insulted him.
3. DSM defended him.
4. A troll edited the wiki to win an argument ITT
5. DSM changed it back, and created a separate page to keep the history of the old solo artist challenge (good job DSM).
6. Loramin (who has admitted he is emotionally upset) banned DSM from using the wiki.
7. Loramin continues to bully and harass a P99 player.

This is correct. The post history is clear.

Loramim can't answer my question:

I agree about the golden rule. So you think Samoht and Zuranthium did not troll the wiki to lower OP's score, even after you said they were wrong?

You claim to be impartial, but you won't answer this.

If they did troll the wiki, why leave the changes in?

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:37 PM

You claim to be impartial, but you won't answer this.

If they did troll the wiki, why leave the changes in?

Because I didn't want to deal with your guys' squabble. I didn't want to have to edit the page and find the compromise, because I have other things to do with my life.

Again, no one was hurt by the page having bad edits for a week. Literally no one except the people in this thread have (probably) even seen those edits ... and the moment the page unlocks you can make them hurt your feelings less ... as long as you do so in a way that's good for everyone.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 02:37 PM

I agree about the golden rule. So you think Samoht and Zuranthium did not troll the wiki to lower OP's score, even after you said they were wrong?

You claim to be impartial, but you won't answer this.

If they did troll the wiki, why leave the changes in?

Zuranthium clearly improved the page. I do not recommend that you continue to deface the page in retaliation or impersonate them while creating new content on the wiki any more.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:38 PM

Again, no one was hurt by the page having bad edits for a week.

Thank you for officially admiting their edits were bad.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 02:38 PM

Thank you for officially admiting their edits were bad.

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:39 PM

I mean for fuck's sake: if any one of you posters, DSM especially, had spent even a quarter of the effort you'd spent trying to "win" this thread by instead coming up with a soloing framework everyone can agree on ... this thing would have ended days ago!

P.S. That wasn't picking on DSM ...I'm just saying, the dude has spent more time than anyone on this thread, so a quarter of it would have been a lot.

Zuranthium

07-09-2025, 02:40 PM

For the two posters (Zuranthium and Samoht) who have a different idea of what a solo challenge is to make their own solo challenge. It's really that simple.

There is no "different solo challenge" and it's far more than us two, stop lying. Countless people in this thread have agreed the wiki needed to be updated and shown support for what it was edited to. It now accurately reflects the different challenge modes possible and what tons of soloers have done, whose work has now been uploaded and categorized on the wiki. You're the only person who is spamming that it didn't need to be updated.

My argument is that changes to the wiki done to troll a specific user in a specific thread should be reverted.

There's no such thing happening. This is just the only thing your brain is capable of processing. Not changing the wiki would troll the tons of people whose work was not properly recognized. Why are you trying to diminish all of them? The work the poster of this thread did would be diminished if the wiki was not updated.

This shouldn't even be called Solo Artist Challenge specifically as we have a chance for Duo's to shine and it shouldn't just be limited to solo/duo. But as others have mentioned most people doing stuff like this don't actually post videos most likely because they don't want to give away their game mechanic knowledge(which is the only edge you really need in this game, not "skill")

Yep. Only like 2% of EQ players at most have put their gameplay on video. Aside from people simply not caring to do it, publicizing things like this shows more people how to do it, which makes it harder to do the camps yourself.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:40 PM

I mean for fuck's sake: if any one of you posters, DSM especially, had spent even a quarter of the effort you'd spent on this thread trying to come up with a soloing framework everyone can agree on, this thing would have ended days ago!

That is correct. Zuranthium and Samoht could have finished their own solo challenge page by now. Thank you for agreeing with me on that too.

Again, no one was hurt by the page having bad edits for a week.

Thank you for admitting Zuranthium and Samoht's edits were bad.

Back on topic:

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:43 PM

That is correct. Zuranthium and Samoht could have finished their own solo challenge page by now.

And which do you think would be better for the community: to have fifty different challenges, or to have one with options?

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 02:47 PM

And which do you think would be better for the community: to have fifty different challenges, or to have one with options?

Clearly he thinks that the original one shouldn't change because those 2 think it should.

And I agree.

It was DSM and myself that suggested adding a [S+] for samhot and zuranth.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:47 PM

And which do you think would be better for the community: to have fifty different challenges, or to have one with options?

You said yourself there is no official solo challenge. I agree with that.

You're pretending the original page was "official". As the creator of that page, I can assure you it was wasn't.

The answer is multiple different solo challenges to fit different goals or ideas of what "solo" is. The community will sort out which challenges they prefer, and which ones will fall by the wayside.

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:52 PM

The answer is multiple different solo challenges to fit different goals or ideas of what "solo" is. The community will sort out which challenge they prefer, and which ones will fall by the wayside.

That's an answer, and if it's the best we can do, then it will have to be what the wiki is stuck with.

But again ...

And which do you think would be better for the community: to have fifty different challenges, or to have one with options?

If someone edits the page to have a single framework, that allows for differing opinions about parts, that will be what stays ... not what someone came up with outside the wiki eight years ago.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:53 PM

That's an answer, and if it's the best we can do, then it will have to be what the wiki is stuck with.

But again ...

I literally just answered you. Having multiple solo challenge pages is what's best. Zuranthium and Samoht can promote their solo challenge and provide videos of them doing the challenges. They can easily eclipse the old page if their claims about "everybody wants their changes" is true.

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:54 PM

I literally just answered you. Having multiple solo challenge pages is what's best. Zuranthium and Samoht can promote their solo challenge and provide videos of them doing the challenges. They can easily eclipse the old page if their claims about "everybody wants their changes" is true.

DSM, you have never in the history of this forum put your personal beliefs behind ... well anything else, and certainly not what's would be best for the community ... so forgive me if I don't take your word.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 02:54 PM

And which do you think would be better for the community: to have fifty different challenges, or to have one with options?

What difference would 1 solo challenage page with links to, different solo challanage option pages be

Compared to putting all of the different options, on one giant page, loramin?

Answer: THERE WOULD BE NO DIFFERENCE.

It would actually be easier to read/follow.

Are we supposed to combine every single Necromancer guide, that every player has done on the wiki, into one giant page? No of course not.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 02:55 PM

DSM, you have never in the history of this forum put your personal beliefs behind ... well anything else, and certainly not what's would be best for the community ... so forgive me if I don't take your word.

Oh get a grip, the guy is talking about everquest, and you can't stop talking about his personal beliefs, his personality, his age.

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:56 PM

What difference would 1 solo challenage page with links to, different solo challanage option pages be

Compared to putting all of the different options, on one giant page, loramin?

Answer: THERE WOULD BE NO DIFFERENCE.

It would actually be easier to read/follow.

Are we supposed to combine every single Necromancer guide, that every player has done on the wiki, into one giant page? No of course not.

I strongly disagree. Under your version, someone goes to the Solo Artist Challenge page and has to read twenty different takes on the right way to solo. I truly don't think that's necessary.

I believe we can find a way to talk about soloing that doesn't require tiers or anyone to decide whether someone else's solo is valid or not. And whatever that looks like is what I think belongs in the wiki.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 02:56 PM

DSM, you have never in the history of this forum put your personal beliefs behind what would be best for the community ... so forgive me if I don't take your word.

Why lie about this? This is why you are not impartial. You clearly have an extremely biased and unrealistic opinion of me.

You didn't address my answer:

Having multiple solo challenge pages is what's best. Zuranthium and Samoht can promote their solo challenge and provide videos of them doing the challenges. They can easily eclipse the old page if their claims about "everybody wants their changes" is true.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 02:57 PM

Are we supposed to combine every single Necromancer guide, that every player has done on the wiki, into one giant page? No of course not.

You could make a conglomerated page if you wanted to. Sure, why not.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 02:57 PM

I strongly disagree. Under your version, someone goes to the Solo Artist Challenge page and has to read twenty different takes on the right way to solo. I truly don't think that's necessary.

I believe we can find a way to talk about soloing that doesn't require tiers or anyone to decide whether someone else's solo is valid or not. And whatever that looks like is what I think belongs in the wiki.

Then combine these guides, right now.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Necro_Soloing_Guide_1-50

https://wiki.project1999.com/Sesserdrix%27s_All_in_One_Necromancer_Strategy_Gui de

loramin

07-09-2025, 02:59 PM

Then combine these guides, right now.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Necro_Soloing_Guide_1-50

https://wiki.project1999.com/Sesserdrix%27s_All_in_One_Necromancer_Strategy_Gui de

Why? Making every page of the wiki the best it can be is not my responsibility. I'm just a referee (and active editor of topics that actually interest me).

Zuranthium

07-09-2025, 02:59 PM

DSM, you're not going to get your way. That's final. The community already said they want more tiers (stop trying to falsely say it's "me and Samoht") and there is no point in having tons of different pages. Nobody is asking for that and if we did do that, then the current page would be re-named to the original single person who made it. It would not be the "solo challenge page" anymore. You will never win the argument no matter what.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 02:59 PM

Why? Making every page of the wiki the best it can be is not my responsibility. I'm just a referee (and active editor of topics that actually interest me).

Then why did you lock/ban people for trying to do that from the wiki?

loramin

07-09-2025, 03:00 PM

Then why did you lock/ban people for trying to do that from the wiki?

Sir, when did you stop beating your wife?

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 03:02 PM

Sir, when did you stop beating your wife?

Ahh, this guy is definitely not emotionally manipulative and toxic.

Way to just give up the debate and just shit your pants.

The next step on your path is spamming porn gifs.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 03:02 PM

Sir, when did you stop beating your wife?

You claim that the solo artist challenge page isn't official, and that it isn't your place to decide what's best for the wiki, while strongly claiming that we should keep the solo artist challenge as one page. Wouldn't that make it "official" then?

Samoht

07-09-2025, 03:02 PM

Ahh, this guy is definitely not emotionally manipulative and toxic.

Way to just give up the debate and just shit your pants to make a point.

Garbage in, garbage out

loramin

07-09-2025, 03:04 PM

The community already said they want more tiers (stop trying to falsely say it's "me and Samoht") and there is no point in having tons of different pages.

I agree on the pages, but not the tiers. I truly don't think there's anyone out there thinking "man I like soloing, and I really hope five strangers in the forum will judge my work and tell me whether it's a high tier or not?"

I think what normal soloers want is a way to describe their solo fairly. It sucks if someone says "I soloed X" when they did it with 50 potions, and you did it with zero potions.

But at the same time, I don't think anyone wants to count the number of potions used and do advanced calculus to get a soloing score either.

What I think people want from that page is a list of mobs, organized into universally recognized tiers of difficulty (if possible), and a set of options (eg. with puppet strings, with outside buffs, etc.) to qualify their solo. That way two soloers can solo the same mob, and have a common language to describe how they did it.

(And, of course, people can still try to solo things without "modifiers" for more impressive solos. I'm not trying to discourage that ... I just don't think the wiki should take the role of judging whether a solo was a solo, or how good of a solo it is, unless everyone can agree on the standards.)

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 03:06 PM

Hmm to counter your point, when did you stop beating your wife Loramin?

loramin

07-09-2025, 03:06 PM

You claim that the solo artist challenge page isn't official, and that it isn't your place to decide what's best for the wiki, while strongly claiming that we should keep the solo artist challenge as one page. Wouldn't that make it "official" then?

As official as anything in the wiki that multiple editors worked on ... which is to say, still not "official", but useful to many/most readers.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 03:07 PM

Hmm incorrect loramin, when did you stop having sex with little kids?

Zuranthium

07-09-2025, 03:07 PM

I think what normal soloers want is a way to describe their solo fairly. It sucks if someone says "I soloed X" when they did it with 50 potions, and you did it with zero potions.

Well yeah that's exactly why the tiers are there, and why there were already tier breaks to begin with. It's just that the initial tier breaks were contradictory and needed to be expanded more accurately to not be contradictory anymore.

loramin

07-09-2025, 03:07 PM

Ahh, this guy is definitely not emotionally manipulative and toxic.

Way to just give up the debate and just shit your pants.

The next step on your path is spamming porn gifs.

You must not be aware of that famous question ("when did you stop beating your wife?"). Google it, and then consider whether it's the same basic question as the one you asked me.

loramin

07-09-2025, 03:08 PM

BTW, 10k posts ... in this thread ... ugh ;)

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 03:09 PM

I agree on the pages, but not the tiers. I truly don't think there's anyone out there thinking "man I like soloing, and I really hope five strangers in the forum will judge my work and tell me whether it's a high tier or not?"

I think what normal soloers want is a way to describe their solo fairly. It sucks if someone says "I soloed X" when they did it with 50 potions, and you did it with zero potions.

But at the same time, I don't think anyone wants to count the number of potions used and do advanced calculus to get a soloing score either.

What I think people want from that page is a list of mobs, organized into universally recognized tiers of difficulty (if possible), and a set of options (eg. with puppet strings, with outside buffs, etc.) to qualify their solo. That way two soloers can solo the same mob, and have a common language to describe how they did it.

(And, of course, people can still try to solo things without "modifiers" for more impressive solos. I'm not trying to discourage that ... I just don't think the wiki should take the role of judging whether a solo was a solo, or how good of a solo it is, unless everyone can agree on the standards.)

Why are you refusing to even entertain the idea of multiple solo challenge pages? People write their own guides all the time. I have one in my signature. I did not go into the official ogre or shaman wiki pages and force my changes in there. I made my own page and promoted it.

loramin

07-09-2025, 03:10 PM

Well yeah that's exactly why the tiers are there, and why there were already tier breaks to begin with. It's just that the initial tier breaks were contradictory and needed to be expanded more accurately to not be contradictory anymore.

Again, I don't think tiers are bad, but I think tiers in the wiki that not everyone agrees on are bad.

If someone can build consensus for tiers (in the forum, in the wiki itself, in a wiki talk page ... wherever), then a universally-agreed upon set of tiers would be valuable.

But if there's no consensus, it's just a bunch of nerds with differing opinions, and those opinions don't belong in the wiki.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 03:10 PM

BTW, 10k posts ... in this thread ... ugh ;)

How many are yours?

loramin

07-09-2025, 03:11 PM

Why are you refusing to even entertain the idea of multiple solo challenge pages? People write their own guides all the time. I have one in my signature. I did not go into the official ogre or shaman wiki pages and force my changes in there. I made my own page and promoted it.

I'm not: god you are bad at reading.

I already said multiple pages would be valid. I also said that I think a single page would be more valuable to the community, so I would encourage the latter.

But if all anyone can do is make umpteen different solo challenges, each with their own personal take, then that's the best the wiki can have. I hope it isn't.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 03:11 PM

I'm not: god you are bad at reading.

I already said multiple pages would be valid. I also said that I think a single page would be more valuable to the community, so I would encourage the latter.

So you are not impartial then. You will take the side of the posters like Zuranthium and Samoht editing the existing wiki page, even when they are literal troll changes.

You do not get to decide this just because you are an admin.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 03:12 PM

It looks to me like everyone agree's the teirs written on the page now are fine.

Instead of ninja editing [S] (like the trolls did to win an argument) we added an [S+]

Now everyone can shut up. Everyone is happy.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 03:12 PM

god you are bad at reading.

This is the kind of shit you are upset at DSM for posting, holy shit.

loramin

07-09-2025, 03:13 PM

So you are not impartial then. You will take the side of the posters like Zuranthium and Samoht editing the existing wiki page, even when they are literal troll changes.

You do not get to decide this just because you are an admin.

No one gets to decide; again, the wiki is not about any one person's personal opinion! Why is this so difficult to understand?

As an admin, all I will do is suspend or ban people who edit the wiki with a clear motivation other than improving it (eg. trying to win a forum fight).

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 03:14 PM

No one gets to decide; again, the wiki is not about any one person's personal opinion! Why is this so difficult to understand?

Which is why you should have zero right or ability to lock a page, or any person from posting on it.

As an admin, all I will do is suspend or ban people who edit the wiki with a clear motivation other than improving it (eg. trying to win a forum fight).

you, totally emotionally invested into this so much that you accused me of beating my wife in a thread about solo challenages, should not be an admin anymore.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 03:14 PM

No one gets to decide; again, the wiki is not about any one person's personal opinion! Why is this so difficult to understand?

As an admin, all I will do is suspend or ban people who edit the wiki with a clear motivation other than improving it (eg. trying to win a forum fight).

Then you should have suspended Samoht and Zuranthium, but you didn't. The evidence is in this thread that they edited the wiki to lower OP's score.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 03:16 PM

Then you should have suspended Samoht and Zuranthium, but you didn't. The evidence is in this thread that they edited the wiki to lower OP's score.
But he hasn't made personal attacks or said how much they bother him, like he has about you, the one guy he banned from the wiki.

loramin

07-09-2025, 03:17 PM

Ok, I'm just going to stop with you two disengenuous losers. If you have a serious point to make, PM me ... otherwise I'll see you in the wiki!

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 03:18 PM

lol disingenuous loser for calling him out for accusing me of beating my wife, in an everquest thread.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 03:19 PM

Because he really feels like it is DSM.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 03:29 PM

Woot the good guys won!

https://i.imgur.com/cO4ifwQ.png

Zuranthium

07-09-2025, 03:30 PM

I don't think tiers are bad, but I think tiers in the wiki that not everyone agrees on are bad.

There will never be everyone agreeing exactly. Such a thing is impossible.

Thankfully most people already agree with the tiers we now have. And those are the factual tiers available when playing the game, other than solo self-found, but solo self-found would already be categorized as S+ and it's not possible to do the difficult NPC challenges while playing solo self-found, aside from using charm.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 03:32 PM

I do think S+ might be best if changed to an [I] for [impossible] :o

[I]
[S]
[S-]

Hmm I guess [S+] is consistant with [S-] So I'm indifferent I guess.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 03:32 PM

Ok, I'm just going to stop with you two disengenuous losers. If you have a serious point to make, PM me ... otherwise I'll see you in the wiki!

Loramin refuses to answer:

How is it disingenuous? I literally posted the evidence multiple times. Samoht edited the wiki just to troll OP and gloat over his lower score.

Wiki has been updated with new rating for melees using raid buffs (https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge)

OP now deserves a B

Yeah, it moved him from a B- on the new scale to a B.

lol, S is no longer the highest ranking.

I just PMed you as well.

Zuranthium

07-09-2025, 03:32 PM

I do think S+ might be best if changed to an [I] for [impossible] :o

The majority of challenges completed have already been done at S+ tier

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 03:33 PM

The majority of challenges completed have already been done at S+ tier

Got any names, videos I can see? Would love to hear about them.

There should be a scoreboard added to that page, with links to names, scores, and or images!

Zuranthium

07-09-2025, 03:34 PM

Got any names, videos I can see?

Yes, can chat about it if you want, I'm not going to be posting any link in this shit thread.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 03:37 PM

Yes, can chat about it if you want, I'm not going to be posting any link in this shit thread.

:o Yes, plz dm me the links!

NZwXN5OgikA

Skarne

07-09-2025, 04:42 PM

my lord guys just let this thread die a death.

Grats, Sscalez!

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 05:02 PM

my lord guys just let this thread die a death.

Grats, Sscalez!

Agreed!

He's obsessively hitting the refresh so he can get the last word in. Watch how long he takes to reply.

Says Samoht, while he tries to get the last word in. He can have it if he stops spamming the thread with nonsense. I am not sure why Samoht is so passionate about trying to minimize OP's achievement. Does he really need to discourage people from posting videos on this forum with 200+ replies per video?

Back on topic!

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

Samoht

07-09-2025, 05:03 PM

my lord guys just let this thread die a death.

He's obsessively hitting the refresh so he can get the last word in. Watch how long he takes to reply.

Swish

07-09-2025, 05:53 PM

https://i.imgur.com/THb7JyJ.gif

Crede

07-09-2025, 05:56 PM

He's obsessively hitting the refresh so he can get the last word in. Watch how long he takes to reply.

He’s just obsessively editing over and over. I’ve seen at least 2 edits after this post of yours to try to say the perfect thing to “win”. It’s really bizarre.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 06:04 PM

Have the trolls finished their last posts? Do they need to add more evidence that shows their bad behavior? People can read the thread. These last posts won't save the damage done to your reputations.

Back on topic!

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Artist_Challenge

It deserves the highest ranking of [S] when following the solo artist challenge wiki page. Please note the wiki page was changed after OP did his video, and the changes are still in dispute. [S+] did not exist as a rank previously.

vales

07-09-2025, 06:45 PM

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 06:58 PM

I made a thing inspired by this thread and the solo artist challenge: https://wiki.project1999.com/Feats_of_Strength

Basically it's solo artist challenge without the contentious ranking system and with (what I think) is a much more visually appealing layout. You can tell at a glance which classes have killed which boss and what they used to do it.

It's a work in progress and I'm sure there's bosses that should be there that aren't, and bosses that are there that shouldn't be. There's also no existing kills added to it yet. I'm also not an expert or anything so maybe I missed something major.

Hope some people end up using it eventually

Very well done! Thank you for taking the first step. I would love to see a dedicated thread for this where people can discuss it and start adding their kills.

This is what I am talking about. Let's get some solo challenge pages going and have them compete. May the best win!

Back on topic!

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

Crede

07-09-2025, 07:35 PM

I made a thing inspired by this thread and the solo artist challenge: https://wiki.project1999.com/Feats_of_Strength

Basically it's solo artist challenge without the contentious ranking system and with (what I think) is a much more visually appealing layout. You can tell at a glance which classes have killed which boss and what they used to do it.

It's a work in progress and I'm sure there's bosses that should be there that aren't, and bosses that are there that shouldn't be. There's also no existing kills added to it yet. I'm also not an expert or anything so maybe I missed something major.

Hope some people end up using it eventually

I like where you're going with this, having a clear distinction between all the types of aid available. But I think people will still want to see a ranking system. Perhaps assign a point value for each mob and then each type of assistance should have a penalty. Like -1 or whatever for using a potion(s).

Crede

07-09-2025, 07:37 PM

This is what I am talking about. Let's get some solo challenge pages going and have them compete. May the best win!

Let's get away from using the world "Solo". Not everyone agrees on what it means, and it should pave the way for other cool compositions, like Trios, which are arguably the sweet spot in this game.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 07:38 PM

Let's get away from using the world "Solo". Not everyone agrees on what it means, and it should pave the way for other cool compositions, like Trios, which are arguably the sweet spot in this game.

Sounds like you've got your own page to make! The existing solo artist challenge page had duo/trio already by the way.

Back on topic!

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

Samoht

07-09-2025, 08:02 PM

If DSM thinks enc enc shm mag cle is a 4 man caster group, I could see why he would think mnk enc clr shm is a solo.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 08:09 PM

If DSM thinks enc enc shm mag cle is a 4 man caster group, I could see why he would think mnk enc clr shm is a solo.

Samoht can choose to believe guild bots do not exist, and characters who are literally logged out are grouped with you if he wishes. I will continue to live in reality where logged out characters cannot group and guild bots exist.

Back to obsessively refreshing the page so you can get the last word again?

Samoht can get the last word he desparately wants at any time. He just needs to stop posting nonsense.

Back on topic!

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

Samoht

07-09-2025, 08:11 PM

Back to obsessively refreshing the page so you can get the last word again?

DeathsSilkyMist

07-09-2025, 08:47 PM

As a wiki admin I had to suspend you for shitting up the wiki with your forum fights! Your addiction to warring with the forum is so bad you re-created Zura's page eight times (https://wiki.project1999.com/index.php?title=Zuranthium%27s_solo_artist_challen ge&action=history), despite him clearly being against it (and despite said page not benefiting the community in any way).

You have a problem DSM, and your problem makes the entire community worse off for it. Deal with your shit already: stop being such a damn coward and burying your head in the sand!

I just realized something about this ruling. It is quite funny.

A few weeks ago Loramin took the liberty of creating a wiki page for my DPS calculator without permission:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3732024&postcount=3

I took the liberty of "wikifying" your calculator: https://wiki.project1999.com/Damage_Calculator. It's still quite rough, but it lets people see your work (and I got the sense that you weren't completely finished, so I didn't want to waste a lot of time on polish).

You can see the wiki code at https://wiki.project1999.com/MediaWiki:DamageCalculator.js. As you can see there, I tried to leave your code as is, and just wrap it with form code (so it'd be easy to update with any new versions you make). However, I did have to modify your main function (RunDPSTest), to make it return an object containing the results, rather than logging them to the console (so I could display them).

P.S. It's also untested, so I make no promises about it being bug free ;)

I didn't accuse him of impersonating me, because obviously that is riddiculous.

However, Loramin's page he created was unique because normal users cannot edit the code for the calculator. Only wiki admins could. He put up my calculator in a broken state, and it took him a little while to get around to fixing it. Putting up my calculator in a broken state without testing it or allowing me to edit it doesn't add value to the wiki.

When I put up the second version of the code, he never updated the wiki page he created for me. We exchanged PM's, and he agreed to update the wiki page or take it down. He never did either of those things, even after I explicitly asked him to. I had to remove the code that adds the calculator to the page and link back to my thread myself.

By Loramin's own logic he needs to suspend himself. What a clown.

Back on topic!

Reposting OP's epic video where he kills Fungi King solo with his monk, no consumables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wONdIYAofyQ

Crede

07-09-2025, 09:08 PM

Good to know!

Bard is a class I would love to level up. It will be fun to learn their unique mechanics. I just don't have the time to level a brand new character these days.

You could have a bard to 60 in the time you’ve spent in this thread.

The Ber

07-09-2025, 10:32 PM

The only thing we settled on is you being an idiot. You make it sound like I had 3 people sitting next to me keeping me buffed the whole time. I only have Aego for the PHs most of the time until a king spawns, and the people that buff me are across the zone at another camp, or are friends that use my toons and log out afterwards.

Regardless, even if I did, buffs are allowed for solo challenges like this, especially for melee classes. Do you think it would be more impressive if I did this with just self buffs, but drank 40 Wort pots to kill it? Of course not, and this kind of this isn't even remotely possible without buffs, so why are you even trying to make this argument in the first place? It wreaks of insecurity; you seem to have this need to diminish other people's accomplishments just to make you feel better about yourself. Everyone else sees right through it. It's pretty sad tbh.

This is your accomplishment. Tune out the haters and be proud, Jeff. I couldn't do this on my best day. Nor could most of the ppl on the server. People love to tear ppl down. Also crazy how ppl just up and ignore ppl for the rest of their lives. Happy Hunting.

shovelquest

07-09-2025, 11:26 PM

https://i.imgur.com/9NfxVIZ.png

Samoht

07-11-2025, 12:30 PM

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 12:33 PM

Welp, looks like sscalez has now completely defaced the solo artist challenge page and retroactively granted himself an S+ for this kill ignoring all community discussion. He's completely changed everything to be more lenient to outside buffs and clicks. It's no longer solo, and no longer art.

How do we undo multiple edits at a time?

The only person who trolled the wiki was yourself by adding lower ranks to lower his score. Claiming all edits that aren't yours are "vandalizing" or "defacing" is silly. You just need to let go.

People don't agree with your idea that logged out characters can still group with you somehow. Everybody knows this isn't possible.

Samoht

07-11-2025, 12:42 PM

The only person who trolled the wiki was yourself by adding lower ranks to lower his score. Claiming all edits that aren't yours are "vandalizing" or "defacing" is silly. You just need to let go.

People don't agree with your idea that logged out characters can still group with you somehow. Everybody knows this isn't possible.

You do realize he has now RAISED his score, right?

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 12:44 PM

You do realize he has now RAISED his score, right?

You do realize that S+ score didn't exist until yourself and Zur trolled the wiki lol. You guys created that rank. Sorry your plan to demerit OP backfired. Maybe don't vandalize the wiki next time to try and win a forum argument.

Samoht

07-11-2025, 12:47 PM

You do realize that S+ score didn't exist until yourself and Zur trolled the wiki lol. You guys created that rank. Sorry your plan to demerit OP backfired. Maybe don't vandalize the wiki next time to try and win a forum argument.

Yeah, this post is entirely self-contradictory. "you don't get to edit the wiki to win an argument" sscalez edits wiki to win an argument "it's okay when we do it"

Anybody besides the forum clown want to weigh in? Looking for people with people who are at least functional autists.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 12:48 PM

Yeah, this post is entirely self-contradictory. "you don't get to edit the wiki to win an argument" sscalez edits wiki to win an argument "it's okay when we do it"

Anybody besides the forum clown want to weigh in? Looking for people with people who are at least functional autists.

Yourself and Zur literally created the S+ rank first. Are you saying you were wrong to do so?

Or are you just admitting you edited the wiki to lower his score? You clearly don't want OP to have a good score.

Samoht

07-11-2025, 12:49 PM

Yourself and Zur literally created the S+ rank first. Are you saying you were wrong to do so?

Are you saying it's okay to edit the wiki to win a forum argument?

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 12:51 PM

Are you saying it's okay to edit the wiki to win a forum argument?

No. It is wrong to edit the wiki to win an argument. Yourself and Zur edited the wiki first to win the argument.

Cause and effect. When you troll the wiki, someone has to go back and fix it eventually.

This is why reverting the wiki to it's original state was the best option. Nobody gets their changes if we can't agree.

But you whined and screamed about that to the point where the page was locked for a week. Now the wiki will move forward with edits you may not like, and you'll have to accept it. You opened this can of worms by trolling the wiki first and pretending it wasn't a troll.

Samoht

07-11-2025, 01:11 PM

questever

07-11-2025, 01:14 PM

uh oh spaghettios

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 01:16 PM

Oh wait, no, of course you think it’s okay. That’s why you were editing it before and why you went overboard impersonating other posters until you were suspended. Don’t even know why I’m entertaining this discussion knowing any argument you make is a lie.

I already proved your "impersonation" narrative false. Loramin created a page for me for my DPS calculator without my permission. Nobody claimed Loramin impersonated me, including myself. Lying just makes you look bad, and shows you don't understand how impersonation works. Forking a copy of a wiki page is not impersonation. Period.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3747916&postcount=935

Under your logic Loramin needs to suspend himself.

The proof is in the thread and the wiki page history you edited the wiki first. You trolled the wiki, and the community needs to fix it. You whined and screamed that reverting the page to it's original state was unacceptable. You opened this can of worms, and now you have to deal with it.

Samoht

07-11-2025, 01:33 PM

loramin

07-11-2025, 01:34 PM

I already proved your "impersonation" narrative false. Loramin created a page for me for my DPS calculator without my permission. Nobody claimed Loramin impersonated me, including myself. Lying just makes you look bad, and shows you don't understand how impersonation works.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3747916&postcount=935

Under your logic Loramin needs to suspend himself.

The proof is in the thread and the wiki page history you edited the wiki first. You trolled the wiki, and the community needs to fix it.

Loramin spent a lot of his personal time converting your calculator's original code into wiki-functional code so that the commnuity could benefit from your work ... work which you clearly seemed to want to share with the community, as you posted the code publicly in the forum. That was nothing like this.

This is why I keep repeating that same word, "disengenuous", every time I describe you Death Silky Mist. As a human being, you 100% understand that me putting your calculator on the wiki is NOT the same thing as you trolling Zura by creating a page against his wishes ... but that doesn't stop you from lying and pretending you don't.

I honestly now think you are the most dishonest person in this entire forum ... and that is truly saying something.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 01:35 PM

This is just an admission of guilt sprinkled with some misdirection and whataboutism. Another argument in bad faith.

As you can see, Samoht cannot counter my argument. People can read this post and decide who is correct.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3747916&postcount=935

He is just trying to dodge because he knows the wiki edit history shows him editing the wiki first, and the timestamps of his posts gloating about lowering OP's score matches u0 with the wiki. You are the problem here. Luckily Sscalez is fixing the wiki.

shovelquest

07-11-2025, 01:38 PM

Loramin and DSM would have a lot in common if one of them realized that they are identical twins with the exact same interests and have nothing to be upset at each other about.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 01:41 PM

Loramin spent a lot of his personal time converting your calculator's original code into wiki-functional code so that the commnuity could benefit from your work ... work which you clearly seemed to want to share with the community, as you posted the code publicly in the forum. That was nothing like this.

This is why I keep repeating that same word, "disengenuous", every time I describe you Death Silky Mist. As a human being, you 100% understand that me putting your calculator on the wiki is NOT the same thing as you trolling Zura by creating a page against his wishes ... but that doesn't stop you from lying and pretending you don't.

I honestly now think you are the most dishonest person in this entire forum ... and that is truly saying something.

You released a broken page without testing it, and the page wasn't even fixable by me. I didn't ask you to make a wiki page for me, much less a broken one. Spending time on something is irrelevant if it is bad.

You never updated the wiki with my 2.0 changes either. This hurt the community, because people were using an old calculator that had your bugs in it and didn't know it.

I didn't make the forked page to troll anyone. You have no evidence of this. I forked the page so he could edit it without modifying the main page while there was a disagreement. It was just a copy of the page with his words verbatim.

You just lie and troll and abuse your power. Please stop.

Zuranthium

07-11-2025, 01:42 PM

Loramin created a page for me for my DPS calculator without my permission. Nobody claimed Loramin impersonated me

The DPS calculator is your own creation, no different than a video anyone makes of things they do in game that people can link to. I did not write the things you put on the wiki using my name.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 01:43 PM

The DPS calculator is your own creation, no different than a video anyone makes of things they do in game that people can link to. I did not write the things you put on the wiki using my name.

I copied your edits verbatim. You have no evidence I modified your edits in any way. Everybody could see it was a copy of the wiki page. Nowhere did it say "created by Zuranthium". Pretending that copying your words verbatim is writing things you didn't write is silly.

Samoht

07-11-2025, 01:44 PM

You released a broken page without testing it, and the page wasn't even fixable by me. I didn't ask you to make a wiki page for me, much less a broken one. Spending time on something is irrelevant if it is bad.

You never updated the wiki with my 2.0 changes either. This hurt the community, because people were using an old calculator that had your bugs in it and didn't know it.

I didn't make the forked page to troll anyone. You have no evidence of this. I forked the page so he could edit it without modifying the main page while there was a disagreement. It was just a copy of the page with his words verbatim.

You just lie and troll and abuse your power. Please stop.

Nobody in the community was hurt by the DPS calculator on the wiki that nobody was aware of and nobody used. This is just some princess level drama here. I think we can safely add narcissist to the list of conditions that DSM has displayed on the forums.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 01:45 PM

Nobody in the community was hurt by the DPS calculator on the wiki that nobody was aware of and nobody used. This is just some princess level drama here. I think we can safely add narcissist to the list of conditions that DSM has displayed on the forums.

Bcbrown used the wiki page at the very least, and he ran into Loramin's bugs. He posted about it lol. Lying just makes you looo bad.

loramin

07-11-2025, 01:46 PM

You released a broken page without testing it, and the page wasn't even fixable by me. I didn't ask you to make a wiki page for me, much less a broken one. Spending time on something is irrelevant if it is bad.

You never updated the wiki with my 2.0 changes either. This hurt the community, because people were using an old calculator that had your bugs in it and didn't know it.

I didn't make the forked page to troll anyone. You have no evidence of this. I forked the page so he could edit it without modifying the main page while there was a disagreement. It was just a copy of the page with his words verbatim.

You just lie and troll and abuse your power. Please stop.

Because you wrote your code like a ten-year old, with a bajillion console.logs instead of propert return statements.

I tried to convert your new version ... I literally spent hours doing so! But at the end of the day I simply didn't have the time to convert eight trillion console.logs into functional return statements ... so I told you as much, and asked if you wanted to do it yourself ... you disengenuous prick.

And at any point throughout this, if you wanted that page gone all you'd have to do is say so, or simply delete the page's content. Don't try to pretend I somehow forced it on you.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 01:47 PM

Because you wrote your code like a ten-year old, with a bajillion console.logs instead of propert return statements.

I tried to convert your new version ... I literally spent hours doing so! But at the end of the day I simply didn't have the time to convert eight trillion console.logs into functional return statements ... so I told you as much, and asked if you wanted to do it yourself ... you disengenuous prick.

And at any point throughout this, if you wanted that page gone all you'd have to do is say so, or simply delete the page's content. Don't try to pretend I somehow forced it on you.

You did a poor lazy job and want praise. I didn't ask you to do it, and you did it wrong, to the detriment of the community. I asked you to update it or remove it, and you didn't do either.

loramin

07-11-2025, 01:47 PM

Nobody in the community was hurt by the DPS calculator on the wiki that nobody was aware of and nobody used. This is just some princess level drama here. I think we can safely add narcissist to the list of conditions that DSM has displayed on the forums.

To be fair, no one was hurt by the solo artist page either. Everyone here is so passionate about what's on that page, but literally no one except this thread (and maybe one random weirdo) even reads it.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 01:49 PM

To be clear, no one was hurt by the solo artist page either. Literally no one but this thread (and maybe one random weirdo) even reads that page.

Nobody was hurt by my forked page either lol. You can't make this claim and then say Zur was hurt by a forked page with his changes verbatim. I didn't change his words.

The only person hurt was me becuase you released a broken version of my calculator, and users factually ran into your bugs.

loramin

07-11-2025, 01:50 PM

Nobody was hurt by my forked page either lol. You can't make this claim and then say Zur was hurt by a forked page with his changes verbatim. I didn't change his words.

That's not how the wiki works. You don't just get to troll the wiki and say "oh I got caught before someone read the nonsense I added". You troll the wiki, you get a timeout.

You did a poor lazy job and want praise. I didn't ask you to do it, and you did it wrong, to the detriment of the community. I asked you to update it or remove it, and you didn't do either.

I just went to delete it for you, and you'd already replaced it with a link to your (worthless, because no one except you or a bored dev can run it) raw code.

You're quite literally bitching about a "problem" you've already solved!

Samoht

07-11-2025, 01:51 PM

I just went to delete it for you, and you'd already replaced it with a link to your (worthless, because no one except you or a bored dev can run it) raw code.

You're quite literally bitching about a "problem" you've already solved!

He just wants to be a victim.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 01:51 PM

I just went to delete it for you, and you'd already replaced it with a link to your (worthless) raw code. You're quite literally bitching about a "problem" you've already solved!

Yeah I had to do it myself because you did nothing for weeks. Our last message was May 22, and I fixed the wiki page on June 18 lol.

You didn't do what I asked you to do. If you didn't have time, you should have just removed it same day as the PMs.

Zuranthium

07-11-2025, 01:51 PM

I copied your edits verbatim.

Editing a page does not mean I created, and agreed with, everything else on the page. You created an entirely new page with a title that said it was my writing.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 01:52 PM

Editing a page does not mean I created, and agreed with, everyone else on the page. You created an entirely new page with a title that said it was my writing.

The page I forked did not say you created the whole page. You are simply lying.

Samoht

07-11-2025, 01:53 PM

The page I forGed did not say you created the whole page. You are simply lying.

Fixed that for you.

loramin

07-11-2025, 01:54 PM

Look, DSM can whine and bitch for another 97 pages (and I have zero doubt he will do so if given the opportunity).

However, if anyone has any legitimate concerns whatsoever about how I or anyone else administers the wiki, by all means, please raise them. If you don't feel comfortable talking to me, PM Rogean or Rahvin (either one can remove my wiki admin privileges).

Otherwise, STFU DSM, you disengenuous asshole: I'm done with responding to you today.

shovelquest

07-11-2025, 01:54 PM

OP has leveled a 2nd monk, BIS and soloed the fungi king AGAIN, in the time this thread has been running.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 01:55 PM

Look, DSM can whine and bitch for another 97 pages (and I have zero doubt he will do so), but if anyone has any legitimate concerns whatsoever about how I or anyone else administers the wiki, by all means, please raise them. If you don't feel comfortable talking to me, PM Rogean or Rahvin (either one can remove my wiki admin privileges).

Otherwise, STFU DSM, you disengenuous asshole: I'm done with responding to you today.

Loramin has clearly lost the argument. He needs to suspend himself based on his own logic, and is mad about it.

Please stop being a troll that abuses your power.

Zuranthium

07-11-2025, 01:55 PM

The page I forked did not say you created the whole page.

Yes it did. It was titled "Zuranthium's Solo Challenge".

shovelquest

07-11-2025, 01:56 PM

However, if anyone has any legitimate concerns whatsoever about how I or anyone else administers the wiki, by all means, please raise them. If you don't feel comfortable talking to me, PM Rogean or Rahvin (either one can remove my wiki admin privileges)

Please, never insult or make a personal attack against another forum poster again while administering the wiki.

Especially outside of RnF.

RnF by all means talk about his momma.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 01:57 PM

Yes it did. It was titled "Zuranthium's Solo Challenge".

You didn't read the subtext at the top that explained it was a version of the solo artist challenge page with your edits. The title needed to be unique.

loramin

07-11-2025, 02:00 PM

Please, never insult or make a personal attack against another forum poster again while administering the wiki.

Especially outside of RnF.

RnF by all means talk about his momma.

You're actually right: bad form on my part. His trolling is truly maddening, but I shouldn't let him lower me to his level.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 02:02 PM

You're actually right: bad form on my part. His trolling is truly maddening, but I shouldn't let him lower me to his level.

You're the one that's been trolling me by attacking me in most threads I reply to with actual lies. Thank you for admitting to trolling me. Please stop doing it, and I won't need to defend myself from your attacks. I am not trolling, I am defending myself.

shovelquest

07-11-2025, 02:03 PM

You're actually right: bad form on my part. His trolling is truly maddening, but I shouldn't let him lower me to his level.

Pras

https://i.imgur.com/0QmW26H.gif

shovelquest

07-11-2025, 02:04 PM

You're the one that's been trolling me by attacking me in most threads I reply to with actual lies. Thank you for admitting to trolling me. Please stop doing it, and I won't need to defend myself from your attacks. I am not trolling, I am defending myself.

I know what its like to feel attacked and feel the attacks are unwarrented so I dont falt you getting defensive about it.

But sometimes its best to just take a big sigh, and decide that the attackers are just weaker than you and you are stronger and to all be friends.

And then to play red and ruin the experience of each other in game instead :cool:

Zuranthium

07-11-2025, 02:04 PM

You didn't read the subtext at the top that explained it was a version of the solo artisr challenge page with your edits.

It didn't explain any such thing, it said "This is Zuranthium's solo artist challenge", and even if it had been "explained", it would still be a false page title. And as already said, it's wrong in the first place to attribute edits to being a single person's exact opinion. Those edits are the result of community opinion, not my own sole opinion, nor what I would do if it was truly my own thing.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 02:06 PM

It didn't explain any such thing, it said "This is Zuranthium's solo artist challenge", and even if it had been "explained", it would still be a false page title. And as already said, it's wrong in the first place to attribute edits to being a single person's exact opinion. Those edits are the result of community opinion, not my own sole opinion, nor what I would do if it was truly my own thing.

I did explain it in the page, you just didn't read the page. It wasn't a false page, and Loramin has already show it is fine to create pages for other people by his own actions. He created a wiki page for my DPS calculator that was broken due to his poor implementation of my code. Someone did factually run into one of his bugs. I asked him to fix it or take it down, and he did nothing for almost a month. I had to take it down myself.

You are just unable to compromise by using your own page. You had to troll the existing page instead.

Stryker85

07-11-2025, 02:25 PM

Zuranthium, clearly this is going no where after nearly 100 pages of arguing back and forth. If we are ever going to end this, we need to come up with some sort of compromise that we can all agree on. I would like to point out that when I made those recent changes to the rules, I was already doing my best to compromise with you. I left in some of your ideas and suggestions, I didn't just revert things back or use only my suggestions. For example I think you raise a valid point that excessive consumables (wort pots) that would equal to more than your full HP should count as a strong item clicky.

I also kept in your S+ rank as well. My only gripe with your proposed changes is that it would prevent any melee character from EVER achieving an S+ grade on literally ANY mob past the Grandmaster tier. To me, that is not acceptable, and it would ruin the spirit of the challenge if ONLY casters could compete for the highest ranking. I'm asking you to take things into the perspective of a melee. There is a reason why Loraen had the specific stipulation that melees were allowed to have buffs, because he knew they would not be able to compete otherwise. Even with allowing outside buffs for melees, the rankings were STILL dominated by casters.

If you would like to join a discord chat or somewhere where we can hash this out like mature, civilized, adults - that would be great. I think we can all see that this could go on forever otherwise. Loramin has already removed the rules section entirely until we can agree on something, so this seems like the best path to move forward.

bcbrown

07-11-2025, 02:26 PM

Bcbrown used the wiki page at the very least, and he ran into Loramin's bugs. He posted about it lol. Lying just makes you looo bad.

Don't drag me into your nonsensical argument. I was dubious about the entire project for three reasons:
1) It's incredibly hard to reverse-engineer and re-implement a complex system and there will almost certainly be significant bugs/differences with the reference system
2) Even if it was accurate, one of the important inputs (mob AC) is an unknown, limiting the usefullness
3) Even without the prior two issues but especially with them, it's just not that useful, not being as simple as the rule-of-thumb (2*dmg + bonus)/delay formula, and without the real-world accuracy of simply parsing against the sort of mob you want to fight.

Even with those doubts, I gave it a shot, found some discrepancies against some parses, posted the inputs I used, and then you yelled at me for not knowing the mob AC values in the wiki are inaccurate. I then lost all interest in the project. Later on it turns out my first reason for being dubious turned out to be accurate, as you had a seriously incorrect assumption about the mechanics of dual wield. That may have been fixed now, but I'm sure there's other similar bugs hiding in it.

If you want the damn thing to be usable you're gonna have to debug the wiki version yourself (which you can easily do with in-browser developer tools for local editing).

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 02:27 PM

Don't drag me into your nonsensical argument. I was dubious about the entire project for three reasons:
1) It's incredibly hard to reverse-engineer and re-implement a complex system and there will almost certainly be significant bugs/differences with the reference system
2) Even if it was accurate, one of the important inputs (mob AC) is an unknown, limiting the usefullness
3) Even without the prior two issues but especially with them, it's just not that useful, not being as simple as the rule-of-thumb (2*dmg + bonus)/delay formula, and without the real-world accuracy of simply parsing against the sort of mob you want to fight.

Even with those doubts, I gave it a shot, found some discrepancies against some parses, posted the inputs I used, and then you yelled at me for not knowing the mob AC values in the wiki are inaccurate. I then lost all interest in the project. Later on it turns out my first reason for being dubious turned out to be accurate, as you had a seriously incorrect assumption about the mechanics of dual wield. That may have been fixed now, but I'm sure there's other similar bugs hiding in it.

If you want the damn thing to be usable you're gonna have to debug the wiki version yourself (which you can easily do with in-browser developer tools for local editing).

I couldn't edit the calculator code, that was admin only. You did run into one of Loramin's bugs, that is a fact.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3732541&postcount=16

It'd be good to add a parameter for number of rounds for people who want to use large sample sizes but that's really a minor complaint compared to the fact that the calculator is not accurate.

Leaving the weapons as-is and setting the mob AC to 80 doesn't result in the 50ish DPS that you've reported vs the turtle. Setting the mob AC to 850-1200 like raid mobs have doesn't change the DPS value by much vs the default.

What validations have you done before making the claim that this calculator is accurate?

Bcbrown has a bad understanding of my calculator in part due to Loramins bad implementation.

Samoht

07-11-2025, 02:28 PM

So the DSM DPS calculator is still inherently invalid because he does not know how to calculate AC?

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 02:32 PM

ASo the DSM DPS calculator is still inherently invalid because he does not know how to calculate AC?

No. Loramin's wiki version wasn't using the textbox changes, so the DPS calculation never changed as AC was edited. This wasn't an issue in my calculator's code.

bcbrown

07-11-2025, 02:35 PM

I couldn't edit the calculator code, that was admin only. You did run into one of Loramin's bugs, that is a fact.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3732541&postcount=16

Your entire argument is so silly I'm not going to engage with it, but I do highly recommend you send a PM to Rogean or Menden or someone, because no matter the outcome I'm sure it will be very entertaining.

So the DSM DPS calculator is still inherently invalid because he does not know how to calculate AC?

It might be pretty accurate if you already know the mob AC, but it's hard to know because mob AC isn't publicly posted and I guess the wiki values are from a different era. You can probably hand-tune the mob AC to match a parse, but that doesn't really tell you anything. You can't use a formula with unknown inputs (mob AC) to predict an output (DPS), even if you have the right formula.

But DSM is super defensive about the whole thing, so I'm not interested in spending any time on it.

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 02:39 PM

Your entire argument is so silly I'm not going to engage with it, but I do highly recommend you send a PM to Rogean or Menden or someone, because no matter the outcome I'm sure it will be very entertaining.

It might be pretty accurate if you already know the mob AC, but it's hard to know because mob AC isn't publicly posted and I guess the wiki values are from a different era. You can probably hand-tune the mob AC to match a parse, but that doesn't really tell you anything. You can't use a formula with unknown inputs (mob AC) to predict an output (DPS), even if you have the right formula.

But DSM is super defensive about the whole thing, so I'm not interested in spending any time on it.

If you aren't interested, then don't post false claims about my calculator. You don't understand how it works, yet you keep making claims it doesn't work. Like Samoht, you have no evidence other than your bias against me.

You used Loramin's buggy version, and you used bad AC values. You gave a level 45 trash mob way more AC than they should have had. That is not the fault of my calculator.

bcbrown

07-11-2025, 02:43 PM

Super defensive. The calculator can not fail, it can only be failed.

shovelquest

07-11-2025, 02:43 PM

It's fine to be super defensive about something you've built, when people are like, "this thing fucking sucks, and so do you!"

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 02:44 PM

Super defensive. The calculator can not fail, it can only be failed.

My code is open source, and I have posted multiple P99 parses with different weapons, classes, and levels. Feel free to dig through it and let me know if you find any issues.

Until then, stop making things up to troll me.

bcbrown

07-11-2025, 02:46 PM

Not interested. Don't drag me into your silly argument.

shovelquest

07-11-2025, 02:48 PM

*insult [hits send]

"My code is up for review!"

*not interested dont drag me into this [hits send again]

DeathsSilkyMist

07-11-2025, 02:49 PM

Not interested. Don't drag me into your silly argument.

I just posted the fact that you ran into one of Loramin's bugs on the wiki page he created for my DPS calculator without my permission. That contributed to your poor view of my DPS calculator.

Anybody can look at my DPS calculator thread. I am not sure why you are getting defensive about a fact and a post everybody can read.

I am the only person in this thread who has had harm done to them by someone creating a wiki page for them without their permission. The person who created that wiki page for me without my permission was Loramin.

He did a bad job on the implementation, and blames me for that lol. He even admitted to not testing his own code, so he knowingly put up an untested wiki page for another user without their permission:

P.S. It's also untested, so I make no promises about it being bug free ;)

I am not sure why you keep lying about my DPS calculator if you aren't interested, and don't want to check the code yourself.

zelld52

07-11-2025, 04:38 PM

i read page 1 and then skipped to page 100. the continuity is broken on this thread

Zuranthium

07-11-2025, 04:57 PM

I did explain it in the page

You did not. I literally just quoted the one single line you put on top of the page - "This is his version of the solo artist challenge". That is not an accurate description, and no description would change how the title of the page was falsely named.

You are just unable to compromise

That's what you've been doing.

Even more hilariously, you're trying to say anyone who doesn't exactly agree with you is "not compromising" (and nobody agrees with you, except for 1 other very selfish person who is simply mad about the fact that soloing with no outside buffs or consumables is a way tons of people play the game and have completed solo challenges).

My gripe with proposed changes is that it would prevent any melee character from EVER achieving an S+ grade on literally ANY mob past the Grandmaster tier.

That's not true, and most melee classes can't do much even with outside buffs, it's mainly just Monks. Most casters are also not able to: Wizards, Clerics, Mages, Druids. And also even when being allowed buffs, no melee character did it in Kunark era anyway.

Your entire viewpoint is just that you want Monks (yourself) to be more "competitive" with Enchanters and Shaman. That is not the purpose of the challenges. It's not a battle of each player being limited to 1 specific class or trying to have rules that allow every class to compete equally; that is not possible in the first place. EQ is EQ, things are vastly imbalanced when it comes to the soloing capability different classes have.

The point of the solo challenges is to see how far each specific class can go. Completing an encounter at S- tier with a certain class could be comparatively more impressive than doing it at S+ tier with another class. Your S tier kill is the highest tier achieved in a public video as a Monk for that encounter. Instead of being glad to have achieved the current highest tier for a Monk, you're trying to tear down other people and rage against changes most people have said make sense. Changes that are objectively the much more accurate way to categorize videos and allow players to search for examples of things to try themselves.